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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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4eat at 4200 or so rpm, what happens?


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43 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_CipeR_*

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Posted 07 May 2002 - 05:54 PM

Some of you may have seen the same thing I have observed in two different vehicles.

As mentioned in another post I regularly use the manual button to keep the tranny in the specific gear which keeps the engine in the optimum rpm.

I have noticed that under heavy load and wot at around 4200 rpm the vehicle acceleration remains constant but the rpms drop back to 4050 then continue to climb again.

I can repeat this fairly regularly. There are two hills I drive on almost every day that make this most noticable and it happens almost every time, usually the reason it doesnt is that I get someone doing 50mph up the hill.

#2 Guest_electryc monk_*

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Posted 07 May 2002 - 06:10 PM

hhmmm I have noticed something funny but its not that.

under WOT I have had it shine all the way to one "green bar" shy of the redline in automatic shifting "D" position in the first 2 gears...........
impressive for an automaitc system.


Total random paralell:
Did'ja know that the Satruns have a built in "neutral" WOT limiter at 4K RPMs? its kinda kool to thinka bout, no worry of redlining in Neutral.

#3 Guest_Sam_*

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Posted 07 May 2002 - 06:19 PM

Not sure what you are describing, are you seeing the Torque Converter "lock up"? Also the Manual button will not hold the car in a specific gear.

#4 Guest_newbie boater_*

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Posted 07 May 2002 - 06:19 PM

All I can think of is a torque converter clutch engaging??Not sure about your specific trans, but I know a lot of manufactures will let the TCC engage in gears other than drive. It might be tough in such a narrow rpm band, but next time it seems to drop RPM, touch the brake pedal lightly, enough to turn on the brake lights but not enough to apply the brakes, see if it wants to go back to the higher rpm range. The brake switch should disengage the TCC if that's what's causing it.

And a lot of cars now have rpm limiters. A few years ago we had someone drive 45 miles to the dealership to complain that when he floored his Lumina/Corsica type car in Park or Neutral it wouldn't rev over 3,500. Well YEAH!!!! Read your owners manual, they make it do that so you can't abuse the engine, why would you want to in the first place???

#5 Guest_CipeR_*

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Posted 07 May 2002 - 07:27 PM

Sam: " Also the Manual button will not hold the car in a specific gear."

How can you tell that to me, when I do it every single day at least 10 times. Literally.


Now from three replies you have mentioned the torque convertor locking. I had thought this as well but everyone jumps in my **** when I try to mention the torque convertor and the manual button at the same time.

Notice I only see this in manual mode. And it always happens in third gear.

Now
1. The torque convertor does not lock in third gear under normal driving condition
2. I see this behavior only when in manual mode

If both of the above are true than it must mean the manual button locks the torque convertor under certain circumstances.

But wait, everyone will kill me for proposing this. I guess we will see. If i could get my dang volt meter working properly Id try to prove it by monitoring the line voltage of the solenoid that locks the clutch.

#6 Guest_PaganQWA_*

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Posted 07 May 2002 - 07:41 PM

The torque converter locks in my '90 Legacy in 2nd, 3rd and 4th under normal dirving conditions and under WOT.

#7 Guest_Legacy777_*

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Posted 07 May 2002 - 09:06 PM

ciper.....how many miles are on your car?

#8 Guest_blackmxz_*

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Posted 08 May 2002 - 09:14 AM

it seems strange that their would be such a diff in the 4eat trannies, our 90 93 and 95 all of them will only lock the converter when in OD not in any other gear, and pressing the brake pedal does not disengage the converter lockup, in the 90 and 93 when the manual button is pressed it doesnt hold it in the gear but lowers the shift points and you have to press the gas pedal further down than normal for it to downshift so i can see where it would help you in the hills,
i have noticed a similar thing on my 93 as you describe only when in 3rd and at about 3300-3400rpm, i have always just assumed it was the tach as i cant hear any change in the exhaust note ot such to indicate an rpm change.

#9 Guest_CipeR_*

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Posted 08 May 2002 - 12:14 PM

As far as I can tell the tranny has 130k miles without any work done on it. It may have had work in the past though because the shifts have less slip than two other vehicles I have test drove lately with 100k+ miles. Off topic but I actually found a 5 speed turbo from an original owner near me that I may get. Hopefully this one doesnt get sold like the last.


blackmxz: Your description on the manual button does not match how mine functions.

If I have the manual button depressed with 3 selected and Im between 2500 and redline the vehicle will stay in third no matter if the accelerator is at zero or wot. If im in second and have the manual button the car will stay in second from idle rpm to redline.

#10 Guest_Legacy777_*

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Posted 08 May 2002 - 01:22 PM

I tell ya what I'm goin to do.....I'll scan in what the factory service manuals say about the manual button.....that should put an end to all this.......

#11 Guest_CipeR_*

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Posted 08 May 2002 - 01:46 PM

And what I will do is borrow a real nice digital multi meter tomorrow from one of the engineres at my company. I will then try to mount my quickcam and laptop in the car so i can take a video and show you guys. I will try to take a video of the manual button holding the tranny in gear as well as the transmission changing from 4200-4000 then back up again.

Anyone know of shareware or other software that will let me cut the beginning few seconds and ending seconds from a video clip? It might be hard for me to start and stop the video all the time.

#12 Guest_Legacy777_*

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Posted 08 May 2002 - 07:29 PM

what OS you have.....windows movie maker, which comes with ME, and I believe XP should do it......

#13 Guest_CipeR_*

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Posted 08 May 2002 - 08:00 PM

Doh, thats right. I run all of different flavors of OS so I guess Im good. One thing I havnt tried though, does it force you to save it as a wmv file or can it be edited and saved as an avi? I guess I could convert it but wmv may be okay, since windows comes with the correct codec and the compression is similar to high level mpeg.

Im still trying to figure out where I can mount the camera so it can see the dash. It looks as if the best spot would be right in the center of my chest! I was thinking of taping a ruler to the top of the stearing console, but then duhh I wouldnt be able to turn :)

#14 Guest_EMS911_*

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Posted 08 May 2002 - 08:48 PM

i feel left out that i dont have a manual button :(

#15 Guest_netchicken_*

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Posted 09 May 2002 - 04:46 AM

I read that the manual button was for use when starting in snow. When on the car starts in 2nd and not first to stop wheelspin. So you turn it on, go to 2nd and the car takes off in that gear. .....

#16 Guest_blackmxz_*

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Posted 09 May 2002 - 08:29 AM

yeah thats the main purpose of the manual button, when it is pressed it will start out in 2nd gear instead of 1st when the selector is in 2nd, 3rd or D, (yes contrary to popular belief it does work in d position as well) kind of a crude traction control. and it aslo lowers the shift points of the tranny (about 1,500rpm on mine) thats really all it does, despite the name on the switch "manual" it doesnt give you any real manual control over the tranny (i wish it did)

#17 Guest_Sam_*

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Posted 09 May 2002 - 01:01 PM

Sam: " Also the Manual button will not hold the car in a specific gear."

CipeR: "How can you tell that to me, when I do it every single day at least 10 times. Literally".

I can tell you that because thats exactaly how it works! Do you have your owners manual? It states exactaly how all of these features work, and there have been no major changes to the 4EAT over the years.

If you have a lower gear selected and you tach out the engine the trans. should shift to the next highest gear, this is a safety feature. Perhaps whatever sensor that tells the car to shift when overreved is not working in your car.

#18 Guest_CipeR_*

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Posted 09 May 2002 - 01:31 PM

This is why Im going to take my camera out and show the operation.

It may very well be that the tranny will shift to thge next highest gear when you hit redline, but if you are hitting redline you are a fool, that is not the best shift point.

I dont care if you try to tell me it works another way, mine and at least one other work the way I explain and it doesnt contradict what the manual says.

Im telling all of you this. If you are at say 65 mph and you floor the gas while in d or 3 it will shift to second. If you put the car in 3 and press the manual button then floor the gas it will STAY IN THIRD.

My point to using the manual button in this way is to keep the engine in its optimum rpm range.

#19 Guest_Legacy777_*

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Posted 09 May 2002 - 06:13 PM

Ciper.....if you have the tranny selector in 3, manual button selected, car is going 65 mph, and you floor it. The car WILL downshift into 2nd gear.

When in 3 and manual button selected....it will choose between gears 2 and 3. When in 2 and manual button selected.....it will remain in 2nd gear.

Again....if you hold down the gas.....it will shift at redline as a safety precaution.

#20 Guest_CipeR_*

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Posted 09 May 2002 - 07:43 PM

"Ciper.....if you have the tranny selector in 3, manual button selected, car is going 65 mph, and you floor it. The car WILL downshift into 2nd gear. "
NO IT WONT. This is what I keep trying to tell you, it will not downshift to 2.


When in 3 and manual depressed you are right that it will choose between 2 and 3, but once you get above maybe 40 (havnt checked exactly yet) it will not downshift to 2.

#21 Guest_Legacy777_*

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Posted 09 May 2002 - 07:47 PM

It should......40 mph is the lower threshold for 2nd gear......or at least it is for mine.

I'm looking for that info in the FSM. I can't seem to find it now. I know it's in there......there's just too much damn info to try and sort through and remember where everything is......

#22 Guest_blackmxz_*

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Posted 10 May 2002 - 08:49 AM

Ciper is correct, with the manual button pressed it lowers the shift points to the point where after the 35-40mph it wont downshift to 2nd when in 3rd, just to clarify what i said earlier too when in D and button is pressed it will stil start out in 2nd but the shifting point changes do not take effect in D (i wish it did) only in 3rd and in 2nd it doesnt shift (unless you redline) so there is no change in 2nd either.

#23 Guest_CipeR_*

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Posted 10 May 2002 - 02:01 PM

Really? Thats one thing I didnt notice Ill try that out. Ive never used the manual button when in drive from a start, I wonder why the d light doesnt change color?

#24 Guest_Legacy777_*

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Posted 10 May 2002 - 02:03 PM

For the millionith time.....It doesn't do squat in D......

#25 Guest_blackmxz_*

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Posted 10 May 2002 - 02:32 PM

go out and try it, mine in D with button pressed will start in second, all of the other features of the manual button are null in void in D though,




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