LynnP Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hi all! I just discovered this site and am happy (and relieved) to be here. My '97 Legacy 2.5 GT just blew its head gaskets after 130,000 miles. I am told that a rebuilt engine with a 3 year warrantee will cost me about $5,000 installed. Ouch. I am willing to cough up the cash because I know I can't find another car I like as much for that price. In doing my research I have discovered that the head gasket/overheating problem is a common problem for this engine, so I don't really want to replace it with the same one. I mentioned this to my mechanic and he says that while other engines (such as a 2.0 turbo or a newer WRX engine) might fit, but they might require replacing other parts (like exhaust pipes and changes for turbo) and might also create emissions problems (I live in an emissions state-Utah). Since I am not technical at all I am willing to rely upon anyone who is willing to help for direction. Thank you! Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hi all! I just discovered this site and am happy (and relieved) to be here. My '97 Legacy 2.5 GT just blew its head gaskets after 130,000 miles. I am told that a rebuilt engine with a 3 year warrantee will cost me about $5,000 installed. Ouch. I am willing to cough up the cash because I know I can't find another car I like as much for that price. In doing my research I have discovered that the head gasket/overheating problem is a common problem for this engine, so I don't really want to replace it with the same one. I mentioned this to my mechanic and he says that while other engines (such as a 2.0 turbo or a newer WRX engine) might fit, but they might require replacing other parts (like exhaust pipes and changes for turbo) and might also create emissions problems (I live in an emissions state-Utah). Since I am not technical at all I am willing to rely upon anyone who is willing to help for direction. Thank you! Lynn Yes putting in a different motor like a WRX or other 2.0 would be lot of work. You could do a 2.2 instead of a 2.5. Are you sure the motor is smoked? You can change HG for $1200 dollars and be good to go. If the motor is bad I hear very good things about motors from http://www.ccrengines.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnP Posted October 23, 2004 Author Share Posted October 23, 2004 Are you sure the motor is smoked? Well, that's what they tell me. I tend to believe them because the antifreeze is dissappearing and the engine overheats within maybe 5 minutes on the road. rweddy, thanks for the suggestion on the 2.2. Will it be less powerful then? Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloradosubarules Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 The 2.2 is a very peppy engine. Mine has 235.5K on it and it has only had a new waterpump, ALT, timing belt, and some oils seals. If you take care of it mechanicaly it will last a good long time. I believe you had a gen I 2.5 which are known for headgasket failure. Maybe you could switch up to a gen II 2.5. I hear they are much more stable. So now the question to ask is..What year started the 2.5, what changes were made, will it swap in without mods, how much are they and where can he get one. Hope this helped in someway. Dissclaimer: Correct me if I am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Well, that's what they tell me. I tend to believe them because the antifreeze is dissappearing and the engine overheats within maybe 5 minutes on the road. That is telltale of HG but that does not mean the engine is bad, they should be able to salvage it and just do HG unless you have badly overheated it and done damage to it. rweddy, thanks for the suggestion on the 2.2. Will it be less powerful then? Lynn The 2.2 has less power but has a better reputation than the 2.5, no HG issues with them. I think you best best it to fix the 2.5, they should not charge you over $1200 to do the fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger83 Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 1. a HG job on that engine is $1,200 or so. Sure you've ruined the block and lower end? 2. The 2.2 has less power, that's why they went to the 2.5. Do you really want the slowest GT around? Get a second opinion. $5K is high for a rebuild job. You might contact CCR and see if they can suggest a local shop experienced in these transplants. http://www.ccrengines.com/ I replaced the HG on my 97 OBW with 139K and it was $1250 with some other work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commuter Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Putting a "full" Phase II 2.5L engine in is a lot of work. One guy did it (on a 97 GT as I recall), but ran into quite a few issues. Just changing out the short block with a Phase II is possible though as far as I know. It's a lot of coin, but a CCR engine would probably be your best and safest bet. Otherwise, just fix the HG if you are reasonalbly assured that the rest of the engine is ok. I'd have them pull off the oil pan though and see how things look on the bottom end first. I fixed my HG, then had a conrod bearing fail. And NO, one did not lead to the other IMO. They just happened at the same time. Commuter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnP Posted October 23, 2004 Author Share Posted October 23, 2004 They did some compression testing of the radiator and it loses compression and drains radiator fluid when it is running with a load (not just idling). He says it is cracked in there, but it sounds like he may be wrong? Ok, so here's what I'm thinking is best to do per your recommendations: 1-Have them pull the oil pan and see if it's just the head gasket. 2-If it is the HG, fix it for $1200 or less . If it is not the HG, put in a the more reliable (though less powerful ) 2.2 liter engine, possibly acquired through CC and using a local shop they recommend. I was sorta hoping I had an excuse to get a turbo or WRX engine in there for about the same price, but on the other hand, saved cash would be awesome!!!! Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THAWA Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 dollars to donuts the engine is fine. Replkace the hg's and be on your way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback_97 Posted October 23, 2004 Share Posted October 23, 2004 Lynn: Are you near SLC by chance? I had a good experience with GT Automotive in Murray when they did my front wheel bearings, and although I've never had any major (engine) work done there, I've heard good things about them. Are you working with a dealer or an indy shop? Just curious, and hello from Utah. Sorry to hear about your engine troubles, with all the HG talk online I always keep an eye on mine (107K miles). Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnP Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 Are you near SLC by chance? Hi Steve! Small world. Yes, I'm in Provo, so that wouldn't be out of the question. I'm going to present the recommendations I get here to the shop that has my car now and if I don't like their response it's good to have a plan B. Thanks! Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenner55 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Had the same problem with my 98 GT wagon at 134K miles. Got the HG job done and it runs just fine. Looked at my alternatives and went to the local dealer for new head gaskets, cost was $1200. We have 5 Subarus in my extended family and regularly drive my wifes OBW with the 2.2L, it really lacks power in the hills. We have a beat 92 Legacy Turbo that puts out the same power at the GT and has been bomb proof for 196K miles. It's being retired to a local ice racer as the body is shot and it's too hard to swap it into the GT. Your best bet might weel be doing the HG job provided it was not severly overheated and has had the bottom end or heads damaged. Glenn Hi all! I just discovered this site and am happy (and relieved) to be here. My '97 Legacy 2.5 GT just blew its head gaskets after 130,000 miles. I am told that a rebuilt engine with a 3 year warrantee will cost me about $5,000 installed. Ouch. I am willing to cough up the cash because I know I can't find another car I like as much for that price. In doing my research I have discovered that the head gasket/overheating problem is a common problem for this engine, so I don't really want to replace it with the same one. I mentioned this to my mechanic and he says that while other engines (such as a 2.0 turbo or a newer WRX engine) might fit, but they might require replacing other parts (like exhaust pipes and changes for turbo) and might also create emissions problems (I live in an emissions state-Utah). Since I am not technical at all I am willing to rely upon anyone who is willing to help for direction. Thank you! Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback_97 Posted October 25, 2004 Share Posted October 25, 2004 Lynn: Here's an excerpt from an email I got from a guy on another Subaru message board (two years ago) when I inquired about repair shops in Utah: > >since I live in Utah Valley, the repair shops I have used > >are on the Provo-Orem Area. The ones I have found most reliable are > > > >Bud's Automative on State Street in Orem. They have a Subaru Specialist > >there. > > > >The other one I use with regularity is Rob's Independent Subaru in South > >Provo. He really knows his stuff. I understand he lives in North Salt > >Lake so you might try to call. This may be way out of date, but if these shops are still around, that could be a good sign. Again, I don't have any experience with these places, but I have heard good things. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnP Posted October 25, 2004 Author Share Posted October 25, 2004 Bud's Automative on State Street in Orem. They have a Subaru Specialist there. Steve, Bud's is still around, but their expert Subaru mechanic is now at a place called LKG in Pleasant Grove. The mechanic's name is Brady Kimball. Thanks Steve! Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnP Posted October 26, 2004 Author Share Posted October 26, 2004 FYI, in case anyone is interested or has the same sort of problem, I received this response from an email I sent to Chris at www.i-speed.us "Sorry to hear about your motor woes. You are not alone in your dilemma. We get many emails from people who need help. Here are our suggestions: 1. If you want to keep the car and the motor is good: Have the heads, if they can be, re-surfaced and use the newer 5 layer metal head gaskets. I am thinking that your car is one of the older 2.5 with the black 3 layer gaskets. Those older gaskets were known to eventually leak. Thus the creation for the new 5 layer stainless steel ones. The new ones retail for about $50 a piece. 2. If you want to keep the car and the motor is bad: Have the heads, if they can be, re-surfaced and use the newer 5 layer metal head gaskets. ALSO, invest in the 2.5 turbo block from Subaru. Retail is about $1700. It is already cheaper than a re-build. PLUS you have the satisfaction that the piece is completely NEW. Now, because it is a turbo block, does not mean that it will only work on a turbo car. The turbo block will work on your N/A car and it will be smog legal! Of course everything depends upon your budget In our opinion it would be best to get a new 2.5 turbo block (like the one off the STi or forester) and have it installed, turbo-less, on your car. FYI: a motor swap on a Subaru takes about 15 hours. Parts and labor for this job should be ~$3500 USD. Let us know if you have any more questions. Regards, Chris I-Speed USA" Many thanks to all who have offered their advice! I've now got the car at the new shop and am hoping to hear what the damage is soon. Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnP Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 Ok, they told me yesterday that everything tested ok and they just need to replace the gaskets. They are also doing the machine work, reworking the valves, and replacing the timing belt, timing belt tensioner (leaking oil), and the bearings for around $2,000 total (1680 if I didn't have them to the valve job). A lot better than the 5 grand I was told I'd have to pay in the first place. Thanks again. Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Ok, they told me yesterday that everything tested ok and they just need to replace the gaskets. They are also doing the machine work, reworking the valves, and replacing the timing belt, timing belt tensioner (leaking oil), and the bearings for around $2,000 total (1680 if I didn't have them to the valve job). A lot better than the 5 grand I was told I'd have to pay in the first place. Thanks again. Lynn Good to hear that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outback_97 Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 Lynn: Do you mind saying where you're getting the work done? I'd like to know in case I ever need to get this done with my OB I hope I don't, but it is after all a Phase I 2.5l and a known issue. Thanks! Oh, thanks also for keeping everyone informed, there are many threads that just sort of fade out and you never hear the resolution of someone's problem. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnP Posted October 28, 2004 Author Share Posted October 28, 2004 Do you mind saying where you're getting the work done? Steve, it's really not the shop, but the Subaru specialist who works there. Brady used to work at Bud's, but I tracked him down at: L K C Automotive 184 E State Rd PLEASANT GROVE, UT 84062 - 3613 (801) 796-7007 Brady was aware of the HG problems with this particular engine and knows his stuff. He also advised against following Chris' advice (see above) on going with another engine due to the differences in computer systems, sensors, etc. Thanks again for your help Steve and good luck with your EJ25 engine. Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnP Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 For those who may have similar questions as I did, here is some additional light shed by Chris at www.i-speed.us RE: turbo engine in a non turbo car Most of Subaru engines are like legos...interchangeable. The engine will fit in nearly all other 93 to present Subaru's. This does not mean, however, that you can just switch parts indiscriminately. Going from non turbo to turbo can be done. But it needs to be done right. Here are some parts you will need to fully convert your n/a car to turbo. - a new turbo cross member - an upgraded engine control system (preferably an stock turbo ecu) - intercooler, hood with hood scoop, upgraded fuel system, turbo and all other ancillary turbo equipment. So to answer your question, YES it will be more expensive to make you n/a car into a turbo car. There are aftermarket turbo kits available which are less expensive, but not legal. The least expensive solution fix would be to get the machine work and change the gaskets. Let us know if you need any more help:) Chris Escamilla I-Speed USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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