AWD/5sp: Binding in turns/Viscous Coupling

[Guest Rod House]

If you’re a AWD/5speed owner and your car makes clunky noises or feels like the brakes just came on when you make tight turns; or if you had your transmission replaced due to any problem like the above.... Please e-mail me. I am starting a group of owners with this problem in the hope that we can collectively get an explanation from Subaru of America and possibly some help. I suspect that there are quite a few of us out here. If your car is still under warranty and you suspect this problem, you would be wise to take it in to the dealer BEFORE your warranty ends... The problem seems to most frequently come about 20k after the warranty expires.

 

Thanks,

 

Rod House

La Veta, CO

landr@rmi.net

[Guest EQUALIZERplus]

Rod,

 

Have you gotten many responses yet? Does this seem to be a problem with any

particular years? I'm thinking about buying a 5spd. 96 or 97 Outback with high mileage.

I might reconsider and get an automatic instead.

[Guest paparoo]

It is ABSOLUTELY imperative that the tires be the

SAME front & rear. Even the same size tires by

different makes will have a different circumference.

You must not have more than 5/16ths difference in

circumference.

You will burn up the center coupler in no time.

[Guest EQUALIZERplus]

That's pretty scary considering that on every car that I've owned, there's been a visable difference in tire wear between front and back. I plan to get 97 5spd w/126,000mi tomarrow. How can this problem be avoided? Rotate tires straight front to back every 5,000mi????????

[Guest SmashPDX]

The issue that Rod is talking about is something a bit different and isn't tied to tire size... there are a couple of threads in the way-back section of the board on it.

 

HOWEVER, it is imperative on an AWD Subaru that you keep tires the same size all the way around if possible. If you have a difference front-to-rear (the amount of "wiggle room" in which is subject to much discussion) the VC will spend a fair amount of time trying to compensate for the rotation at different speeds of the front and rear sections of the powertrain, and it will accordingly get the tar beaten out of itself.

 

I have to imagine a similar issue exists with automatic systems, as I've had several discussions with my dealer's master techs about tire size questions on my '95 automatic.

 

Left-to-right variances in tire diameter are a problem as well. And yes, the best way to deal with it is to rotate front-to-back every 5K. FYI on my '95 I have never noticed any difference in wear front-to-rear on the vehicle, all four tires wear identically, and that covers 2 sets of tires and 36000 miles that I personally put on the car.

[Guest cruise311]

At 23,000 miles my '96 Legacy SW, automatic transmission, started making a clunking sound and grabbing as I turned right. The dealer could not replicate the problem. By 31,000 miles, it bucked making sharp turns from a stop and the duty solenoid was replaced because it was not releasing and the transfer clutch pack was replaced. Now at 99,000 miles, I have the exact problem. The dealer believes he is going to have to replace the clutch drum as well because he had another Subaru in the shop having the clutch pack replaced and the drum was worn.

The dealer's estimate is $1700 for this repair. I'm desparately seeking help!

[Guest dacKampf]

My 93 turbo AT Legacy has this problem.

 

I know exactly what is causing the problem and how to fix it, but it's not cheap, nor as expensive as $1700.

 

There is an aluminum section of the transmission where the tailshaft exits. This holds some very important parts of the AWD system for AT cars. Part of the driveshaft wears a groove in the aluminum housing and causes fluid to leak past the teflon seals. This disrupts the AWD system and causes a clunking or shuddering right below my butt when accelerating in low speed turns.

 

The only fix is to replace it with a new one, or a pristine used part. Thankfully the new parts have a steel sleve where the wear occurs. This eliminates the problem in the future.

 

I was quoted $750 from Ogden Subaru. Not too bad. They do them all the time and i've seen the actual wear on a car that was getting the fix done.

 

Frankly, i'm going to have JC Sports swap in a 5-Speed Turbo trans for $2500 and banish this AT to the rebuild pile and hope someone else can use it.

 

The MT problem CAN'T be related to this one, as it's mechanics are radically different. This is just a heads-up for AT owners.

[Guest Rich]

I have a 90' Legacy AT. I had the "bind" in turns about a year and a half ago.

It was very irritating. I changed the fluid and the binding stopped completely.

But, now as I speak, I am have another tranny put in my car! I am not happy about this.

The dealer pulled the transmission out, and said it looked awful and he couldn't

believe that it was actually working! IT gets credit for performing in such bad shape,

but man, I am easy on cars and can't understand how the thing got so badly worn.

HE mentioned something about a bearing probably wearing down, and letting things

move around in there, but I don't know. Anyway, if you ever take a turn (90 degrees)

from an intersection and your tranny sounds like a zipper being pulled on a large

duffel bag, better get to a shop and have it looked at.

 

I wish Subaru would admit to something, as this is NOT a CHEAP repair!!!

 

Rich

[Guest dacKampf]

Mine's not nearly that bad...

 

I'm going to skip the replacement, save my pennies and have a Turbo trans swapped in by JC Sports.

[Guest Sam]

92 Legacy wagon AWD AT:

 

I am having a rumbling in my car when accelerating from a stop or slowing to a stop. Doesent matter weither turning or straight. If you have ever had a bad U-joint in a driveline thats exactaly what my car sounds/feels like. Dackampf, you mentioned the same thing about your car and the fix in the tailshaft of the trans. Can you give me more detail on the fix. What were the parts called you replaced, does the tranny have to be removed to change the part(s) You mentioned a steel drum as an updated part? did Subaru start putting the steel in newer Legacys, if so what years, are they compatable with older models?

 

Sorry about all the questions but your problem is the only one I see that is like mine, everyone else describes a "binding" any info is greatly appreciated as I would like to correct the problem.

 

Thanks,

Sam

[Guest stratos2000]

Is this clunking or shuddering below the driver's seat and towards the rear of the car?

I do seem to have a similar problem when I step on the gas pedal to accelerate in low speed turns with my 93 Legacy wagon AWD. It feels to me like something tries to engage but it cannot do it completely as it misses in the process, although my accelaration does not seem to be affected. This happens only in turns and from a dead stop. And the sharper the turn the more severe the problem seems to be. But when I do accelerate from a full stop with no turn I do not seem to have this problem at all.

Could this be related to what Dackampf and Sam have descrided aleady?

I was thinking about taking it to the dealer, but I am not sure whether I can trust them. Would anybody know any reputable service source/mechanic in the Boston, Mass., or surrounding areas?

[Guest dacKampf]

If you've got an automatic made before mid-97 it will probably have this problem but after that it was supposed to be fixed.

 

I'm just going to live with it and pay JC to swap in a 5-speed.

[Guest stratos2000]

Many Thanks for the feedback dacKampf.

You mention that you will live with it for a while before changing to the JC Sports 5 speed turbo transmission.

Is this a manual transmission? Who is JC Sports?

 

Do you think I could I live with my current transmission problem and for how long? Would it cause any more problems down the road?

 

Sorry for all the questions. You do seem to know what you talk about and I greatly appreciate all your help here.

[Guest dacKampf]

The JCSports swap on my car would of course be a Turbo transmission, as anything less would be eaten alive by the torque...

 

It's a rebuilt 5-speed Manual swapped in with center diff and rear diff and all necessary parts for $2500.

 

JCSports is located in Wheat Ridge Colorado, just ouside of Denver. http://www.jcsports.net

 

Colorado has a ton of subies, and they love their turbos because of the altitude. JC has had a bad rep for shipping out parts in the past but i'm hoping that a 550 mile drive will have them working on it fast.