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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Changing Transmission on 91 Legacy 4WD


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66 replies to this topic

#26 Guest_jcniest5_*

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Posted 08 September 2001 - 02:12 PM

Well, what do you know? There is something not right about the new(used) tranny and mine. On the new tranny, there are two holes on each side of the tranny where the axles plugs right in. On mine, there are two male things sticking out where my halfshaft goes to. Why are they different? I asked the seller and he didn't have any ideas. The seller showed me a bunch of axles and none look like mine.

Usually, a male thing from each axle plugs right into the female on each side of the tranny, but mine already have two of these male things sticking out. Am I suppose to pull them out and put them on the new tranny? What's the procedure? Or am I talking about two different trannies?

My tranny is female from the axles to male on the differential. Others are male from the axles to female on the differential. And the new(used) tranny is like others, not like mine.

Help, I'm very confused and for the time being, I haven't bought the new(used) tranny yet. I won't buy it until I know it fits my axles without spending too much $$$ for other costs.

Deer season, I guess I won't be able to enjoy it.

#27 Guest_kennedydennis_*

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Posted 08 September 2001 - 08:37 PM

I've also heard that you need to make sure that the differential ratio in the trans matches your rear end ratio in an AWD.

#28 Guest_jcniest5_*

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Posted 09 September 2001 - 02:24 AM

Well, tonight (or I should say last night) was my third crack at this tranny. Whew!!!!!!! It was hard! I managed to get the tranny out and off the car. Unfortunately, because of uncertainty (see my previous post), I didn't actually purchase the new(used) tranny for fear of being the wrong one.

Anyway, I was able to unscrew what is like a BIG cap screw that they bolted the internal halfshaft/axle to the differential housing and then I know now that the tranny at the junkyard is the right one. They must have taken out both whole axles. The two holes on each side confused me, but once I unscrew mine out, it looks just like the one at the junkyard.

The trick to unscrew this BIG cap screw (that's what I call it, I'm there is a name for it although I don't know) is to use a punch tool and punch your way (on the many wings or whatever you call them, excuse my non-professionalism here because I don't know all the terms) to unscrew that sucker out. If you punch it counter-clockwise, you are unscrewing that thing out. If you punch clockwise, you are tightening that sucker more. The trick is to punch it to the left or right (depending if you are unscrewing it or tightening it) and not directly or straight on to the BIG screw.

The motorcycle jack did some wonder by supporting and lowering down the tranny easily. The hard part is to get the tranny separated from the engine, there's some patient needed there.

I almost got a broken nose. I was working under the car trying to unscrew the drive line and when it was off, supporting only by the exhaust pipe, I wasn't careful enough so I pushed the exhaust pipe to the side and down came the drive line and hit me right on my eyebrowse area. I saw several stars (ehhehehhee...) and now it's swollened. It's not too bad, though. If that thing hit me on my nose, I'm sure it's worse and I may have gotten a bloody nose for sure. Anyway, it's just a lesson to learn. I'll be smarter next time.

I will keep you all posted as the project progressed. Sorry about the language. Hope everyone understands the picture I am trying to paint here.

Still thinking about hunting, of course! LOL.....

#29 Guest_Huckster_*

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Posted 09 September 2001 - 07:07 AM

Glad to hear you got it out, I know that some Yards don't drive out the pins, and hence remove the axle stub, you think they'd know better, since you hammered on the stubs, once you put them in the new tranny, make sure your axles will still slide up on them(easier to fix before you get it back in the car!)
Also, you do have to make sure the gear ratio is the same, the easiest way is if the tag is still on your rear diff( will be something like 3.90 or 4.11) this needs to match the tag on the rear diff of the car that the new tranny came out of.
I think(but have nothing to back it up)on the top of the bell housing of the tranny's there is a sticker that has a number then a dash and two letters, the two letters (I believe) are for the gear ratio, so if both of the trannys' have the same last two letters, they are probally the same gear ratio.
If not try to get the rear diff out of the 45k car, as then they'll match and have low miles on most of the drivetrain.

Happy hunting,

#30 Guest_jcniest5_*

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Posted 09 September 2001 - 10:04 AM

So, the trick is if the new(used) tranny's gear ratio is different than my old one, since I will still be using the driveline from my old car, I should take out the rear differential of the new(used) and put my old differential on the new(used) tranny, correct?

Tell me if I'm correct or wrong.

Thanks...

#31 Guest_Huckster_*

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Posted 09 September 2001 - 04:43 PM

You can either swap the front diif off your old tranny onto the new tranny(difficult job without proper knowledge) or the easiest way is to leave the new tranny intact, but also replace your rear diff(what the rear axles come out of) with the matching rear diff out of the same (new)used car, which will cost some, but they might do some trading with you since you have to have it to use the tranny they sold you as what you needed, but simplest<sp?> is check the rear diff codes, good chance they are the same, in which case just use your original rear diff.
Let me know how it goes,

#32 Guest_jcniest5_*

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Posted 09 September 2001 - 10:04 PM

I guess the problem will then be that the junkyard that sells me the tranny doesn't even have the car on which that tranny came with anymore. Is there a way I can find out the ratio without that car being presented? I believe the only thing they have now is the engine with the tranny intact. All other things including the car were disposed of.

#33 Guest_Huckster_*

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Posted 10 September 2001 - 04:54 AM

Well, the only sure way is to seperate the front diff off the tranny and count the teeth on the ring and pinion, But as I said before, I believe the sticker on the top front of the tranny should still be there, and with the 6 or 7 tranny's I've seen the last 2 letters seem to indicate the gear ratio, the wrecking yard might be able to confirm this, if not I'd check with a reputable tranny shop, if they can't confirm it they might tell you an easy way to tell.
Sorry I'm not to much help in this area, but I haven't seperated an trannys myself, the one time I needed it done I had a Tranny shop swap the front diff from my SVXs original tranny on to a Legacy tranny I got to replace it,(the SVXs are the only Subaru to run a 3.56:1 ratio) so it would match the SVX rear diff(which is a limited slip rear diff, which are hard to come by for a Legacy)
Does your old tranny still have the sticker?
If it does, write the number down when you go to pick up the tranny, and also see if your rear diff still has its tag, if it does write that down also(you can never have to much info)
I've got a 3.90:1 rear diff laying around if that happens to be what you need.
If you don't care post the numbers here and I'll see if I can find out anything on them.
Hopefully the new tranny will be the same as your old tranny.

#34 Guest_jcniest5_*

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Posted 10 September 2001 - 09:41 AM

Okay, I will see if the tag or sticker is still there on my currect tranny and post it here. Obviously, I'm at work right now (don't you hate working?). Last night, I tried (unconsciously) looking to see if there is any tag or sticker, I could find any but I may not have looked at the rigth place. Also, I will make sure to see if the two trannies match.

According to the seller, the tranny at their place came off a hatchback Legacy (is here such thing?). Mine is a sedan, so if there is any difference at all, this may be the differential's differences that come into play.

Do you think a shop migh be able to rebuild my old one for less than $400? If they can, I guess because of uncertainty of differential gear ratio on the new tranny, I may choose to go that route instead.

#35 Guest_jcniest5_*

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Posted 10 September 2001 - 09:58 AM

Damn it, I called a shop and they said the cost to rebuild my old tranny is $1495!!! That's outrages! Another shop told me they must have my tranny for workbench testing before they can give me an estimated rebuilding price.

What is a typical price for rebuilding a tranny anyway? Why are some shops charge so much for even rebuilding it? It's almost like a new one. Incredible!

Thanks for hearing me spilling out my guts...

#36 Guest_PaganQWA_*

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Posted 10 September 2001 - 10:50 AM

The internals to that auto tranny are more complex then your engine :) That's why it costs so much for a tech to rebuild it. They had to get lots of training, tools, and what not so their time is valuable. You also pay for parts.

Thats why we shade tree mechanics just swap in a low milage one and hope for the best :)

As for finding teh gear ratio. A dealership should be able to find out if you can get enough numbers from the tranny. There should be a tag or plate on it with serial numbers and part numbers. Write them all down and call a dealership willing to help you out.

#37 Guest_jcniest5_*

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Posted 10 September 2001 - 02:40 PM

Well, I was able to get the number off my old tranny. Here it is: TZ102ZA1AA-JS. There there's another number: 262317.

Let me know what these mean.

Thanks...

#38 Guest_Huckster_*

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Posted 10 September 2001 - 03:19 PM

It's after 5 here(Kentucky EPT) so I'll try to check on it tomorrow, There is a dealer in Tenn. that is pretty good about helping out with info.
Where are you located?
There's not many Subi nuts around here mostly just me.

#39 Guest_jcniest5_*

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Posted 11 September 2001 - 09:21 AM

I'm in Sacramento, CA. Let me know if you find out anything.

I know this post is about automobile, but I just want to tell everyone that I'm deeply saddened by what just happened today at the World Trade Center, Pentagon, the White House and the mall. We must come together and make it through this whole thing.

#40 Guest_Huckster_*

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Posted 12 September 2001 - 04:44 AM

I checked with Duff Subaru yesterday, the main service guy was out when I called, the other guy didn't know, then the whole World Trade Center attack happened and I didn't get a chance to check anymore on it, will try to today.
Did you check to see if the yard still had the original rear diff, or at least check to see if your rear diff still has its tag? If it did what did it say?

#41 Guest_jcniest5_*

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Posted 12 September 2001 - 09:35 AM

Both of the trannies have the same exact number with only the serial number (I presumed) different. Both have: TZ102ZA1AA-JS. And no, the dealer/seller doesn't have the old differential from that car anymore.

Anyway, I finally decided to just buy it and I did yesterday. I tried putting it on, but I put in the plate wrong, I didn't do the 1-2-3 clicks/snaps so I had to take it down again. A friend told me I have to turn it whichever way until it clicks/snaps three consecutive times. I was able to make it clicks/snaps the first time, but never after that no matter whichever way I turned it.

What is the exact procedure on doing this 1-2-3 steps? I tried it on my old one with successful several times (all the 1-2-3 clicks/snaps), but afterward, I wasn't able to anymore. I wonder if there is a certain way I have to do it. I was working late into the night last night trying to get it to work. Unfortunate, I wasn't able to at all especially on the new tranny.

#42 Guest_Huckster_*

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Posted 12 September 2001 - 01:40 PM

What plate are you refering to?
Maybe the Torque Converter?
I'm not sure about what you need, I'll help if I can.

#43 Guest_jcniest5_*

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Posted 12 September 2001 - 01:52 PM

Well, it looks more like a chicken gizzard (or chicken's stomach). I think it may be the torque converter that I'm talking about. I'm stuck. Can't finish it unless I can do this first.

#44 Guest_Huckster_*

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Posted 12 September 2001 - 03:16 PM

Does it have the teeth that the starter engages on the outside of it? If it does then it's the Torque Converter, if that is what it is, and you've had it loose from the tranny, you have to take it back out(the T.C.) and the pull out the sleeve up inside of the tranny it has a C-clip around it that has to go inside of the T.C. before you put it back in to the tranny(you can get it in [without taking the sleeve out] by working with it, standing it straight up on its rear shaft makes this method easier, but what little fluid is left in it will come out the back)
I'd try working with it some first, always keeping a little inward pressure on it. If that dosn't work reach in with a pair of needle nose pliers and pull out the sleeve.
Once you get it in all the way, it's not a bad ideal to run a string through on of the T.C. bolt holes and tie it back so it dosen't slip back out while ou're tring to put it back up in there.
Hope this was what you needed to know.

#45 Guest_Rich_*

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Posted 12 September 2001 - 03:33 PM

Huckster,

I am in TN and was surprised to see the reference to Duff's. I used to live in that town - grew up there. Went to high school with guy now running the dealership. What a small world. Have/do you get your cars repaired there? I am always amazed at how many subarus I see when I go back home - they have a good dealership as about 1/4 of the cars in the town seem to be subarus!

Sorry I can't offer any advice on the tranny. Duff replaced mine last fall with a used one. I am not wild about the tranny I received, (slow shifter - really slow) but not their fault.

Just wanted to say hey.

Rich

#46 Guest_Huckster_*

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Posted 12 September 2001 - 03:43 PM

Hey Rich,
Nice to meet ya!
I don't have Duff's do any repai work for me as its about 2 1/2 hours away. I went to a SVX meet in OAk Ridge this past spring and Duffs was the sponser, got to meet several of the employees( it's hard to find a SVX friendly dealer) and 2 of them owned SVXes! I was suprised to see how small an operation they had, I guess that why they are so friendly. huh.
Well if you're up this way, look me up and we'll talk Subaru's!!
I'm in Somerset, KY near Lake Cumberland.
Take care,

#47 Guest_jcniest5_*

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Posted 12 September 2001 - 11:52 PM

I'm very much afraid so that I may have damaged the tranny. Before I put the TC all the way back in the tranny, I thought I was done, so I mounted the tranny on the engine. I got it to mount, but the bolts were very tight because the TC was pressing against the plate. There was about .5 inch still and the bolts were too tight, then I thought about not having my TC all the way in the tranny.

I thought I was going to just rotate the engine and see if I could get to set in. Turning the engine was so hard, then I think I may have damaged the component inside the tranny and now I can't get the TC to go all the way into the tranny. I had no problem getting the TC to get all the way in on my old tranny, but with this new tranny, because of what I just said above, I think I screwed it.

It's not so hard on my old tranny trying to put this TC all the way in the tranny. But with this new tranny, man, I tried like hours without going into the second click/snap. I could go only as far the first click and it has to go three clicks/snaps before the TC is all the way in.

I'm thinking of taking back the tranny to the selller and have them do it. If they are not able to do, they will assume there's a problem with it and will have no choice but to refund my money. I hope this is the case.

I haven't try the technique you mentioned (standing up the tranny on its tail.) But I assume if I screwed up the inside component, it wouldn't work no matter how I try it.

Unfortunately, I don't have anyone to help me, so I'm doing this all by myself and I might have done something wrong and I'm not aware of. That's the nature of 'One Man Gang'.

I'll keep you posted.

#48 Guest_Huckster_*

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Posted 13 September 2001 - 04:47 AM

Have you tried pulling the sleeve out of the tranny yet, this was the method my tranny guy told me to do, allthought I ended up getting it in without taking it out, though it required a lot of turning and pushing, but the tranny guy said if you pull that sleeve out and put it into the Torque Converter, and THEN put them in the tranny together, that they would just slide all the way in. I haven't tried it but he's worked on a lot of Subaru trannys, and should know his stuff.
You might want to try that before you take it back to the seller.
Good luck

#49 Guest_jcniest5_*

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Posted 13 September 2001 - 09:13 AM

Is the sleeve the thing that has two bumps/humps on opposite side and that's where the two cut-outs on the TC go into? If that's the case, I think the first click/snap is that. But I will have to buy a super slim needly nose plier since the area where the sleeve is so narrow. In fact it's so narrow, I don't think I will fit anything in there. It's like 1/16 or maybe even 1/32 of an inch.

Thanks for your help all along the way. I'm sure I couldn't even get to this point without all you guys' assistance, tips and tricks.

#50 Guest_Huckster_*

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Posted 13 September 2001 - 09:42 AM

That sounds like the part all right, you might be able to hook the snap ring on it with a hook and pull it out.




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