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Alcohol injection?


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13 replies to this topic

#1 WJM

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 06:31 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/...&category=42604

My brain started working overtime when i seen this...

#2 NorthWet

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 06:41 PM

It doesn't say what type of alcohol it uses, and where you would get it. Ethanol is fairly common, but it doesn't have much of an octane advantage, ansd is mildly antagonistic towards rubbers and plastics. Methanol has the higher octane rating (IIRC), but destroys nearly any plastic or rubber it contacts. Plus I seem to remember issues with corroding aluminum.

I still think that it would be neater to go with liquid propane: High Octane rating (110 IIRC), low corrosivity, superior charge cooling, and general availability. Set up a system to use a camp-stove bottle, and bob's your uncle. Just keep it safe from excess heat and crushing...

#3 oobnuker

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Posted 04 November 2004 - 08:11 PM

It doesn't say what type of alcohol it uses, and where you would get it. Ethanol is fairly common, but it doesn't have much of an octane advantage, ansd is mildly antagonistic towards rubbers and plastics. Methanol has the higher octane rating (IIRC), but destroys nearly any plastic or rubber it contacts. Plus I seem to remember issues with corroding aluminum.

I still think that it would be neater to go with liquid propane: High Octane rating (110 IIRC), low corrosivity, superior charge cooling, and general availability. Set up a system to use a camp-stove bottle, and bob's your uncle. Just keep it safe from excess heat and crushing...


I don't think it's octane that is the big concern - the alcohol is vaporized during combustion. It is used to cool the charge air by 200 degrees or so, allowing higher boosts using lower octane fuels. Isopropyl is cheap and effective.

#4 subiemech85

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 12:04 AM

moonshine? everclear? fermented RICE?

if using "RUBBING", it is 30% water, 100% is available

what about ethyl, methyl, and others?

propane injection is for diesel, works like nos for gas

#5 NorthWet

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 01:02 AM

moonshine? everclear? fermented RICE?

if using "RUBBING", it is 30% water, 100% is available

what about ethyl, methyl, and others?

propane injection is for diesel, works like nos for gas


Ethyl alcohol = Ethanol
Methyl alcohol = Methanol

Pardon my ignorance of the vernacular, but what is nos? My best guess is nitrous oxide, but if that is it than it is not really a good analogy. Propane in a diesel just allows utilization of most/all of the available oxygen, instead of reducing and releasing heat and free oxygen like nitrous oxide.

Propane has a lot to offer a spark ignition engine.

#6 nkx

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 02:57 AM

i think NOS is a trademark or brand name for holley's nitrous systems.

#7 WJM

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 07:09 AM

i think NOS is a trademark or brand name for holley's nitrous systems.


yes.

#8 Nug

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 07:53 AM

When using a "plate" or "Fogger" system, can you run alcohol through the fuel jets instead of gasoline? I think the cooling/octane advantage of alcohol would make it superior for this, but I've never heard of anyone using it.

#9 WJM

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 09:49 AM

Ok...so what alcohol should I use...... :confused: :confused:

#10 subeman90

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 01:38 PM

Your in NC so this should be easy.....Moonshine!!!!!

Matt

#11 oobnuker

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Posted 05 November 2004 - 06:26 PM

Ok...so what alcohol should I use...... :confused: :confused:


Read this: http://www.geocities...ch/alcohol.html

I apologize in advance that it is a geocities site.

Alcohol injection has been used for decades. We're not talking about NitroMethane, or Methanol, or anything like that - ala Top Fuel Dragsters.

Alcohol injection has been used for cars that couldn't be intercooled easily (read: draw through carb'ed turbo setups ['79 Turbo Buick Regal]). In these systems, the fuel would cool too much and puddle in the intercooler. Alcohol injection is the perfect solution to this.

#12 WoodsWagon

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Posted 06 November 2004 - 06:56 PM

What can propane do for a gas engine? and how do you hook it up?

#13 NorthWet

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 09:18 PM

What can propane do for a gas engine? and how do you hook it up?

WJM, my apologies while I hijack your thread for a moment, please.

OK, first the problems. Propane (actually LPG) is under moderate pressure: 100-150 PSI at normal temperatures (in temperate climes). It is also very cold when it vaporizes. Both of these cause problems if you try to inject LPG.

Most LPG systems use a gasifier to drop the pressure and convert the liquid to gas. But you lose two advantages: Pressure and charge cooling. And it somewhat lowers the amount of charge entering the cylinder. And and, it takes higher energy to ignite than gasoline; very difficult to start a cold engine on LPG.

Positives: LPG has a fairly high resistance to detonation. It has a wider range of ignitable A/F ratios. It has tremendous charge-cooling capabilities. Given sufficient heat to absorb, it is a gas at STP, so you don't have liquid fuel diluting the oil and wetting the spark plug. There's also some interesting ideas that I want to explore that utilize the fact that it is under pressure. :brow:

End of hijack. WJM, thanks for your indulgence. :)

Pat

#14 Nug

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 09:27 PM

What type to use...
A DSM buddy of mine used methanol that he got from work, or denatured alcohol, which he bought at Lowe's. He felt they both worked well.




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