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HELP...!! 1986 Subaru GL 1.8L F.I, Oil Pump, Water,Timing Belts


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10 replies to this topic

#1 LuckyPistol

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Posted 10 November 2004 - 11:42 PM

Hi All,
A newbie here with a recently obtained 1986 Subaru Gl Wagon 1.8L , Fuel Injected, Automatic. This baby has 152,000 miles on it. Great shape. I have the "Tick of Death" though, and am replacing oil pump, (reading here I got valueble info on going ahead) and replacing water pump, timing belts , cam and crankshaft seals.
My questions are:

1) Is there anything else that I should go ahead and replace (inexpensively) since I am getting this done?

2) What about this so-called "relief valve" with a spring? Should I get the spring replaced?

3) Also, I have noticed a "surge" in the idle , meaning it will go to 2000 rpm, starting, after driving a few miles, whenever. Also, it goes up and down. What would be the cause of that? Mostly it seems stuck at 2000K. I have almost rear-ended a few cars, lol. (maybe that has something to do with timing?) or is it fuel injected related? or even a throttle control of sorts?

I have read here a while, and have searched for alot of these questions, (and have found alot of answers, thanks you:).!! But these would really help me alot. Maybe one more question, how many "mechanic hours" do you think the above would entail? I have been quoted at 5.5 on average.

Thank you so much for your time, and have been so grateful for all the info i have had on this site. ( I bought my parts through a suggestion here) So I am learning. Thanks again for any help.!!!

#2 LuckyPistol

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Posted 10 November 2004 - 11:53 PM

Also, Please explain this -

I spend the night at my girlfriends, I wake up, we go to the car, I crank it up, AND, the engine purrrsss like a kitten, It lasted ALL day, driving around. I couldn't believe it, no noise, Idle is perfect, quiet valves. I dump her off at the end of the day like dirty laundry. I go home , wake up, go and crank the engine, Click, click, click, revvvingg idle. It was the first night dipping into the cold temps here , maybe that explains it. But I have noticed, sometimes, sometimes!! this comes and goes........ Please tell me I dont need to have her in the car at all times for this to happen, LOL.!!(Not that it's a bad thing, lol) She is a bit hefty, and makes the car lean to the right , maybe she is making my oil pump (or seals) work properly? Any help is appreciated.!!!!:)

And the more threads i read, the more questions-
1) Shall I re-place the oil with sythetic? I am guessing so . But more importantly what about the Trans Fluid? Sythetic as well? thanks for all your help, I really live by this site now!! And what did happen to General Disorder? He was such a Genius it seemed............thanks again for putting up with all my babble..

#3 Snowman

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Posted 11 November 2004 - 02:27 AM

Does the joint between the heads and the cam carriers leak? I would recommend pulling the cam carriers off and resealing that with Anaerbic sealer as well as inspecting the HVLA's themselves to make sure that's not your problem. The O-ring that seals the oil passage going into the cam towers also tends to leak either internally or externally, which can contribute to the ticking. I haven't looked into replacing that little spring, but if you can get a replacement cheap (just go find a spring that's the same size and similar "springiness") it wouldn't hurt anything. As far as synthetic oil, there are mixed feelings. This is probably one of the most highly debated topics on the board. My personal feeling is that synthetic ROCKS, but I wouldn't switch on an engine with those kind of miles on it without doing a complete reseal first, as any minute oil leaks will become aggravated.

Dunno about the weird idle problem. I don't know much about FI yet. The ticking often comes and goes though.

Oh yeah, one final thing. Lots of people recommend Marvel Mystery Oil. Some use a quart at every oil change while others do it periodically. That's personal preference, but the fact is that this stuff is a good lifter detergent and can help reduce ticking and keep it from coming back. I would recommend using the stuff even after performing the fixes, as it will ward off future problems and other bad spirits.

#4 thealleyboy

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Posted 11 November 2004 - 11:31 AM

LP:

Sounds like you are a pretty ambitious guy, and that's great. You'll have all these problems figured out in time. But I would stick to the basics at first before getting too carried away.

The timing belt/seal procedure is a good starting point. I would strongly recommend you leave the timing belt covers off for easy future servicing. This is another controversial topic that not everyone agrees on.

The "intermittant" ticking might indicate an oil pressure problem. Your 86 has an oil pressure guage, and I would observe it when the lifters start acting up. It will be fairly obvious if the tick is directly related to low oil pressure. If it is, then the pump will need attention. (you'll be glad you left the timing belt covers off!!)

If the oil pressure remains strong, and the ticking is present, you might try Marvels Mystery Oil. If this quiets things down, I would conclude that the problem is internal. You could continue to use Marvel's, but this is not a permanent fix.

As far as oil, I am definitely "old school" when it comes to our Subes. These cars were designed for traditional oil, and that's what I run in all of mine. I believe that any ASE approved oil is fine as long as you replace it frequently (3/3000). The most important thing about oil is to flush out moisture and contaminants. Oil breakdown and internal wear will not be an issue if you change it at 3000 miles.

good luck, John









#5 WAWalker

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Posted 11 November 2004 - 12:12 PM

The "intermittant" ticking might indicate an oil pressure problem. Your 86 has an oil pressure guage, and I would observe it when the lifters start acting up. It will be fairly obvious if the tick is directly related to low oil pressure. If it is, then the pump will need attention. (you'll be glad you left the timing belt covers off!!)


If the oil pressure remains strong, and the ticking is present, you might try Marvels Mystery Oil.



Oil Pressure is NOT the issue when dealing with lifter noise on these engines. AIR BUBBLES in the oil (aerated oil) is the problem. Replacing the oil pump will fix this problem.

#6 LuckyPistol

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Posted 11 November 2004 - 06:37 PM

Thanks everyone so far for your responses.

My oil pressure is always low (usually under 45 PSI, and at idle around zero, LOL.) Sometimes it will jump up to 65 or so, but not often. I am thinking the oil pump will fix both this and the noise.

1) Anyone know if 5.5 hrs is about the correct hrs. to do the work i mentioned above?

2) So, other than the spring, any other replacements?

It's sounds like most problems will be covered when these parts are installed. My only concern now will be the surging idle !!. I have read it might be some vecious idle controls or something like that? Or could it be the timing? Any help on this mystery would be greatly appreciated. thank you:)

#7 thealleyboy

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Posted 11 November 2004 - 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by thealleyboy

The "intermittant" ticking might indicate an oil pressure problem. Your 86 has an oil pressure guage, and I would observe it when the lifters start acting up. It will be fairly obvious if the tick is directly related to low oil pressure. If it is, then the pump will need attention. (you'll be glad you left the timing belt covers off!!)


If the oil pressure remains strong, and the ticking is present, you might try Marvels Mystery Oil.




Oil Pressure is NOT the issue when dealing with lifter noise on these engines. AIR BUBBLES in the oil (aerated oil) is the problem. Replacing the oil pump will fix this problem.
Well...pressure would be low if there was air in the system....
Any oil pump problem/failure would result in a low pressure reading.

I agree that that the pump probably needs replaced or sealed. Again, I would keep an eye on your guage, and think seriously about leaving the timing belt covers off after doing your belts and seals. You can tackle your oil and water pumps as seperate systems.

good luck, John

#8 fud24682000

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Posted 12 November 2004 - 09:46 PM

WAWalker, can you clarify? I have ticking lifters on an '87 EA82 wagon. Oil pressure shows 45 lb. at 3000 rpm.

Is it possible to have that much pressure showing and still have air in the HLA's?

Ray Mac, AKA fud.

#9 86subaru

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Posted 13 November 2004 - 06:47 AM

just my .2 cents , my 86 spfi a/t sedan had a bad ticking problem ,i changed the oil/ filter , i used chevron 15w40 and drove the car about 100mi and there is no more ticking , in my opinion i run with the timming belt covers on, while i had the ticking i had good oil pressure ,i

#10 LuckyPistol

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 09:49 AM

This ended up as the nightmare from hell for me, look at my other post about "fan Clutch"...

I ended up spending over $1300.00 at my local rape center (I mean car center).

All I needed was a $2.36 gasket for my oil pump, and some labor to install it. I wanted to do some preventative maintanence, and I damned near replaced the engine, LOL! (I can laugh about it now..)...

But as I type this and start to relive it a bit, I might get angry, I do have a tendancy to jump off the handle....:)

Here is just a run down of what was done that horrible week .....

Remove and replace :
Oil Pump
Water Pump - Twice !! (due to partsbin.com listing the wrong pump)
Front cam seals
Front crankshaft seal
Fan Clutch - WTF?? - they say it was broken - BS!!! cost $170.00
Timing belt idler - WTF?? - again broken - $35.00
Crankshaft Pulley - another mysterious broken piece WTF??? - cost $155.00
Oil and Filter Change
Transmission Service - drain and refill - clean screen.
Adjust throttle control - due to a fast idle I was expieriancing. the cleaned and lubed.

All in all , over $1300.00 and it wasnt over yet.!!

I ordered the wrong f%^king water pump (look up my post for "water pump")
from partsbin.com --- I feel it wasnt my fault, but what can i do..

so I had to get another , and have them remove and replace this one. another $250.00.

Anyway, it ran ok for about 6 months... then all hell broke loose with my coolant system. I am posting a new thread for my "yearend review", so I can just go over ALL that went on this year (including what you see here, so please look it up for my FULL STORY)...

cya, Lucky - or ummm Unluckypistol

#11 Subaru Jim Maple Ridge

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Posted 02 December 2005 - 11:26 AM

I very seldom replace oil pumps, and it's too bad I didn't read your thread earlier.The member who said it was the oil pump seal was entirely correct. I always replace the front crank seal. both cam seals, oil pump seal, oil pump 'O' ring, oil pump seal ( AKA Mickey Mouse gasket ), both belts and both valve cover gaskets all at once.

The ticking is caused by the oil pump sucking air past the one ear of the seal. This usually happens with the seal shrinking with age, but anyone running heavy oil in cold weather can kill a new seal overnight.

Peoples main complaints about the Loyale series is that they are noisy and they leak. Most people just replace timing belts, not realizing that they are already right there to do all the rest. All those extra parts will be good for another 10 or 15 years so you should never have to do them again on that motor.




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