Okay here goes.
The vehicle is an 84 Brat GL 4spd stick.
It was the project brat from St Louis.
I have never touched AC before this brat. The vehicle was converted to 134 but then discharged to remove the (radiator like object). Fill in proper name.
My questions:
Does system need to be converted a little bit because of the replacement of this part because of the AC oils and such?
Can anybody direct me to a simple set of directions for charging, what to buy, etc? Is this safe to do yourself if you follow the instructions, or should I spend the $ and have a local shop/dealer do it?
Thanks Board in advance,
SW
Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!
 |
Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created. We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning ** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it! Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998! |
Guest Message by DevFuse
134A AC Recharging...
Started by
Guest_ShawnW_*
, Oct 01 2000 10:32 AM
21 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_bajavwnsoobnut_*
Guest_bajavwnsoobnut_*
-
- Guests
Posted 01 October 2000 - 10:59 AM
You might want a shop to do this because of the EPA having the need for trained and certifed people to do freon changes or charging
#3
Guest_leathermang_*
Guest_leathermang_*
-
- Guests
Posted 01 October 2000 - 11:40 AM
The short answer is exactly what Baja said.... you are way ahead on several important levels taking it to a shop. And often even on the total cost of the job, The main (but not only) problems are lack of a vacuum pump.... and proper gauges ( they are not the ones used for r 12, I just bought a set of the new ones ).Will give the long answer if you ask...:<> greg
#4
Guest_PaganQWA_*
Guest_PaganQWA_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 October 2000 - 09:12 AM
AC is for the weak! 
hehehe My suggestion: Remove every ounce of scrap metal under the hood called "Air Conditioning System" But thats just me...
That part you were refering to (radiator type thing) is a condenser. I hear its fearily cheap (100dollar range) to get a system converted and recharged. I would also heed the other 2 posts suggestions, its a Pro job. Requires special pressure tools and compressors. NOt really a fun do it yourself job when freon squirts out at a high PSI on your hand freezing it instantly :evil:
BAH BAAAAHH!
hehehe My suggestion: Remove every ounce of scrap metal under the hood called "Air Conditioning System" But thats just me...That part you were refering to (radiator type thing) is a condenser. I hear its fearily cheap (100dollar range) to get a system converted and recharged. I would also heed the other 2 posts suggestions, its a Pro job. Requires special pressure tools and compressors. NOt really a fun do it yourself job when freon squirts out at a high PSI on your hand freezing it instantly :evil:
BAH BAAAAHH!
#5
Guest_ShawnW_*
Guest_ShawnW_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 October 2000 - 11:25 AM
Oh great guys, now the wife wins this argument. DOH!
#6
Guest_leathermang_*
Guest_leathermang_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 October 2000 - 11:38 AM
You mean you let your wife read this board?? DUH !! Find a shop that will do it in less than a day, take it when she is away, it is fixed when she arrives at home. You meanwhile have smeared grease on your forearms and face and' are really tired'when she gets home, and the ac works great...
#7
Guest_ShawnW_*
Guest_ShawnW_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 October 2000 - 11:40 AM
YEAH! Good call. Nah i said I should be able to do it myself verbally and then posted on the board for some backing up on it, didnt happen.
#8
Guest_doctor_*
Guest_doctor_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 October 2000 - 11:52 AM
Shawn, Ill try to keep this short. Do you plan to put 134A back into the system or convert back to R-12? The oil is incompatible so the entire system needs flushed if you put R-12 back. Each component contains some oil, so oil will have to be added into that replaced component. I'd also replace the drier. You'll need gauges for 134A and a vacuum pump (rent from a local store). Hook up the gauges, high side (discharge) and low side (suction) and vacuum pump to both sides by opening both valves on the gauges. If the system holds a vacuum you are ready to charge the system. Close off the discharge side valve and the suction side valve on the gauges, and remove the vacuum pump. To charge, hook up refrigerant to suction side only by opening the suction side valve on the gauge. Answers (1) no conversion is necessary other than oil if you go back to R-12. (2) You need oil, vacuum pump, gauges and refrigerant. (3) In order to be safe, you must be able to identify the suction and discharge ports and know when they the valves are open and closed. If you decide to do the work yourself, we'll provide step by step instructions, but I suggest a Haynes manual on Air Conditioning.FYI: Only the suction side valve on the gauges is opened for charging the system (the discharge side valve is OFF). The suction and discharge valves are both open when pulling a vacuum, this is the only time the discharge valve will be opened. If you are just looking at pressures, the gauges are connected and both valves are off. Good Luck!
#9
Guest_ShawnW_*
Guest_ShawnW_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 October 2000 - 12:28 PM
Clarify, it had 134 in it but then was discharged right before I got it. I plan on putting 134 back into it and the only part I have added is the condenser, so it alone is the only 12 part that hasnt seen conversion.
#10
Guest_doctor_*
Guest_doctor_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 October 2000 - 02:29 PM
You should be ok with the condensor. The new R134A condensors are a little more efficient, but if you have an older one for R-12 it still will work. If the system was open for any length of time, you'll need a new drier.Hope this helps. Good Luck
#11
Guest_leathermang_*
Guest_leathermang_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 October 2000 - 02:39 PM
There isn't really any changing that needs to be done to the condensor because it does not have any service valves attached to it. If it was used with a system that had r 12 in it you need to use the flush sold with the 134 a conversions and flush it to get all the r12 type oil out of it, and anything else that might have contaminated it ( like the bags which hold the desicant in the receiver/dryer,which eventually give up the ghost, and that is why one always replaces them at the same time as a new compressor is added to the system ) . But you would flush any equiptment you could before putting the system back together anyway... right?? YES. But notice the length and cautions in the DOCTOR's answer.... clean it, install it, TAKE IT TO A GOOD SHOP for the rest of the procedure. I have your health in mind, both physical and marital... There are little things which can be done by one not trained which can easily injure you permanently. I have done some of them in my lifetime and was incredibly lucky I did not have a bad accident ( I later learned ). GO TO A GOOD SHOP. Just the nature of your questions tells me you are not equipted to do this safely.
#12
Guest_richierich_*
Guest_richierich_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 October 2000 - 04:17 PM
R134 conversions have just started being a main stream thing to do. I have every confidence in ShawnW that he could do it, the reason for his questions are because r134 conversions are new to everyone. I work for a Sub shop and mechanics and the industry still have questions. I rather be asking questions then think I know something and then screw it up. The problem about doing it at home with a kit and renting materials is that 1> your car is older, thus it could have leaks, a good shop test for those 2> If system fails because of leaks then the shops must help, or there rump roast is grass for not checking properly. 3> I think by the time the kit is bought and parts rented not worth hassle. 4> Wait until next summer when you actually need it.
#13
Guest_leathermang_*
Guest_leathermang_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 October 2000 - 07:17 PM
You labeled your responce Strongly disagree but said exactly what I was saying , those were right on the money for why he should take it to the shop.... in addition to some others.... greg
#14
Guest_earthguy2_*
Guest_earthguy2_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 October 2000 - 10:19 PM
Hey folks...im confused here. I talked with an a/c specialist here in town, and he said all you need to replace in the conversion process is the receiver/dryer as it tends to hold the most mineral oil. He did recommend flushing the system, but stated it isn't necessary. I have an 86 that was totally devoid of r-12 and all I did was fit the special adapters on the high/low ports and replace the dryer, charge it with 3 cans of 134 and away I went! It has worked fine all summer...
#15
Guest_ShawnW_*
Guest_ShawnW_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 October 2000 - 10:56 PM
Okay and the dryer was never changed, only an electrical connector on it was. It has already been through 134 conversion process.
Sounds like I just need to take it to a shop and have it press tested and charged. Easy and cheap enough im sure.
Thanks to all!
Richie I appreciate your good words too, as well as the rest of your comments. The board is great cuz u get the yeay and nay and side effects of both.
Sounds like I just need to take it to a shop and have it press tested and charged. Easy and cheap enough im sure.
Thanks to all!
Richie I appreciate your good words too, as well as the rest of your comments. The board is great cuz u get the yeay and nay and side effects of both.
#16
Guest_leathermang_*
Guest_leathermang_*
-
- Guests
Posted 02 October 2000 - 11:01 PM
your compressor will usually hold about 5 oz of oil as an example and that should be drained and flushed if you can, shooting for max longivity, which is my goal. I do not like to do things twice if a careful attention to detail will increase the time before I have to mess with it again. As I mentioned, the sacks that hold the dessicant can give way and contaminate the system, and if a compressor blew it can put particles into the system, I am just a kinda clean freak when it comes to a sensitive closed system like this. Much depends on the condition and reason the system is apart. I take everything out that is reasonable, flush, reinstall and vacuum. it is impossible to flush some things while in one position, like a gas tank, if you can take it out,rotate it and do mutiple flushes, that is what I do..
But back to the question of taking it to the shop.... one really needs to charge the system and run it to determine if there are any leaks... much better than vacuum leak down...because it will be under pressure from then on... that is what a shop does and if there is a leak they use that special machine and take the refrigerant back up and fix the leak and then reinstall.. it is very hard for a home shop to do all that properly and safetly... my considered opinion from 30 years of messing with this kind of stuff...greg
and remember...that shop does have a vested interest in doing your serviceing a couple of years down the road , even if it is unconscious....
But back to the question of taking it to the shop.... one really needs to charge the system and run it to determine if there are any leaks... much better than vacuum leak down...because it will be under pressure from then on... that is what a shop does and if there is a leak they use that special machine and take the refrigerant back up and fix the leak and then reinstall.. it is very hard for a home shop to do all that properly and safetly... my considered opinion from 30 years of messing with this kind of stuff...greg
and remember...that shop does have a vested interest in doing your serviceing a couple of years down the road , even if it is unconscious....
#17
Guest_doctor_*
Guest_doctor_*
-
- Guests
Posted 03 October 2000 - 08:13 AM
I can't argue with the advise given in this post, both pro and con. The shops in my area usually want to replace all components under the hood and charge $500 no matter what the problem and won't give over a year guarantee. Shawn, get several estimates, I'll be happy to answer any questions you my have on this subject. Good Luck to all.
#18
Guest_richierich_*
Guest_richierich_*
-
- Guests
Posted 03 October 2000 - 12:20 PM
$500 bucks. Kiss My rump roast! The shop I work for charges 139 bucks. Including r134 freon, system check, new fittings, oil and suck down and refill, can add dye for and extra $10 if he think the system might have an undetectable leak. But he GETS to keep all the R-12 in the system . To do a r-12 system it is 30 labor and for 2 pounds or R-12 it is 100 bucks.
. To do a r-12 system it is 30 labor and for 2 pounds or R-12 it is 100 bucks.
#19
Guest_leathermang_*
Guest_leathermang_*
-
- Guests
Posted 03 October 2000 - 12:28 PM
Too bad shawn is not close enough to you to go to your shop.. The amount yall charge is right in line with the cost here in central Texas. Can't imagine anyone having the guts to ask $500 for it...greg
#20
Guest_bythesea_*
Guest_bythesea_*
-
- Guests
Posted 03 October 2000 - 01:56 PM
Gee. My mechanic wanted to convert to 134 on my Mercedes because it's cheaper and more eco-friendly. He also mentioned talk of eventually phasing out r-12 altogether. Gee, gues it's a good thing I put away that 30# can before the feds went green.
#21
Guest_doctor_*
Guest_doctor_*
-
- Guests
Posted 03 October 2000 - 02:06 PM
There is no reason for that type of response. If you have a problem take it off line. The spirit of the board is to help each other. Good Luck to All.
#22
Guest_ShawnW_*
Guest_ShawnW_*
-
- Guests
Posted 03 October 2000 - 03:28 PM
This topic has been debated for a long time now, in fact ever since the gov stopped 12 and moved to 134.
Everyones help is appreciated and I am going to archive the post now.
Thx
Shawn
Everyones help is appreciated and I am going to archive the post now.
Thx
Shawn
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
