Guest GeoffreyR Posted October 7, 1999 Share Posted October 7, 1999 Once again, my '87 GL sedan 4WD is being retired.... but not forcibly, this time. I have actually managed to find a replacement for it BEFORE it completely failed. Now, most of you are going to think I am incredibly sick and think I should be institutionalized, but I did not opt for another 4WD this time around... mostly due to lack of inexpensive 4WDs in this area period... especially going into winter... I have obtained a Lucent Gray '87 XT GL coupe, which not only is fuel injected, but runs MUCH better than my sedan. I thank you so called "true" Subaru fanatics for not touching the FWDs so they may become extremely inexpensive. Just remember, a true Subaru fan DOES appreciate ALL Subarus, not just the 4WD ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ShawnW Posted October 7, 1999 Share Posted October 7, 1999 Geoffrey I second this motion. I just bought a 4x4 one, but Ive been driving my 2wd wagon for a long time, and my first roo was a 85 Gl Sedan 2wd. My front wheel drive one made it thorough one of the worse driving trips I have ever been on, chunks of ice all over road nearly 2 inches thick, as the plow was only picking up pieces of it. Like driving down an icy pot hole filled roadway. 20 miles per hour, in 20 below zero, with huge winds, total darkness, many of the areas were blacked out power wise so no extra light, just 4 halogen bulbs and only lo beams could be used cuz the snow would just cause blinding conditions if hi beams were on. My wagon is one tough SOB, and plans to stay that way. Congrats on the new sooby, you will like EFI, and a more sports ride/look. SHAWNW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest richierich Posted October 7, 1999 Share Posted October 7, 1999 Finally another XT friend one line. I have been driving a 85 Xt turbo fwd. It get great gas mileage. The non-turbo multi-point fuel injection is a great system. It was only available in Xt and 85-86 Gl-10 non-turbos. Is lucent grey the dark color? Cuz I have an xt parts car that color. Have you heard it is not nice to brag with out disclosing the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeoffreyR Posted October 7, 1999 Share Posted October 7, 1999 Feels good knowing that XTs and FWDs aren't as alienated as it seems. Richie - yeah, lucent gray is the dark one... moon silver is the light one. I think it looks cool, and it has a nice gray interior (in absolutely immaculate shape)... I'm so damn tired of beige and blue interiors. And... well... I kinda paid only... $300... for it. Engine runs great... a little lifter noise for about 30 seconds on startup, and a miniscule amount of hesitation under full throttle, which is probably due to something in a fuel filter or the fuel line (Car has had low-grade arco its entire life... I plan to change that) and the clutch is adjusted kinda weird which will drive me nuts until I get it adjusted... Body is almost flawless... no dents larger than a quarter, only a couple minor paint scratches. Nice alloy wheels. Good rubber. recent brakes, and a whole bunch of other stuff... Records back to 2 years after it was new... impeccably maintained... the one drawback is it has a few more miles than my sedan. 170,000.... but it should have a ton of life left in it based on how it rides and sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mick82 Posted October 7, 1999 Share Posted October 7, 1999 Nice grab on the XT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Witte Posted October 7, 1999 Share Posted October 7, 1999 What happened to the turbo you got? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike W Posted October 7, 1999 Share Posted October 7, 1999 Hey, congrats man. Nice buy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeoffreyR Posted October 7, 1999 Share Posted October 7, 1999 Witte - the breif story of the turbo - Reoff and I hauled it back to my house. I ordered a turbocharger. We replaced the turbo, did an oil change, and refilled the coolant. The car started blowing out lots of white smoke. I couldn't put any more into it, so I sold it to rich for the cost of the turbo. he has since picked up an inexpensive used engine and is preparing to modify the heads for use on the turbo (thanks to Teague and his confidence that it can be done) Mike - Come on over sometime and I'll take you for a spin in the XT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Subaru Junkie Posted October 7, 1999 Share Posted October 7, 1999 Even though i'll never own a 2WD Subaru, i consider myself a true fan. And just because i rule out 2WD Subaru's as becoming an owner of... that doesnt mean my head turns any less when one drives by me. I still love them, but you wont see me driving one. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ShawnW Posted October 7, 1999 Share Posted October 7, 1999 most of that might be your residing in Alaska Junkie! I wouldnt either. Hell why would subaru even sell a 2wd in that area anyway. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zak Posted October 9, 1999 Share Posted October 9, 1999 Not 'cause you'll get stuck, but due to the power understeer problem in cornering. Now, if you only drive on nice dry pavement and don't take corners fast, that's fine, but I live in a place called Alaska where there's snow on the ground half the year. I can't think of any circumstance under which I would buy a front wheel drive car here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest richierich Posted October 11, 1999 Share Posted October 11, 1999 For a second car in Oregon and washington and Idaho a 2wd subaru is great. Unless you have ever taken a 2wd Subaru around a curve at 90mph like I have you can't say that they do not handle curves. If I am in the snow or heading to the mountains I would not trade my 4x4 Subaru for the world, But if I am traveling 1-5 in the rain, give me my XT any day. The only better Subaru would be an AWD. Here in Oregon and Washington we do not get that much snow, so having a 2wd subaru is a very exceptable second car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeoffreyR Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 Not to mention cheaper to buy, own, and operate. 4WDs are a premium here... even crappy old ford trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zak Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 Handling dynamics don't change because of the coefficient of friction. Balance is balance no matter what surface you drive on. What's the last time you saw a front driver in Le Mans? four/all wheel drive certainly works for reducing power induced skid behavior and improving grip for acceleration on slippery surfaces. That's what attracted me to Subarus in the first place. The reason you don't often see AWD in racing is weight. The reason you don't see FWD in racing, or my driveway is handling. I'm not saying no front drive car handles competently. I'm just saying that it's an inherent disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zak Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 I love XTs. My first car was an XT... '85 4X4 Turbo. <img src=http://swarm.mosquitonet.com/~phreak/XT-off-road1.GIF> So that's what the variable height suspension is for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeoffreyR Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 I've never understood peoples' fascination with RWD over FWD. From my experience driving both vehicles as well as looking at the basic physics of both, it's a wonder anyone can even control a RWD car. I know I sure as hell can't. I can't even control a 130HP Miata, much less our V8 work van. There is something to be said for having either weight or downforce on your drive wheels. Something about keeping them moving in a straight line. I know you guys are probably more experienced RWD drivers than me. That's fine. You can have the damn things. I'll compromise this so-called "balance" for knowing how the hell to get myself out of a jam any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zak Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 Front drive cars have more directional stability. At first, this sounds like a good thing. Consider, however a car that has complete directional stability. It would only go in a straight line and couldn't turn. A car with no directional stability could not go in a straight line at all. The ideal is to be right in the middle. Miatas are known to be very good handling cars. I can't imagine having any difficulty driving one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reoff Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 First, i also would take a RWD car over a FWD any day. I can handle RWD better in any conditions. However, I can also understand what Geoff is talking about. I'd never fit in a Miata myself, but people seem to like them for one reason or another. If you had never really driven a RWD car, I can see the problem with driving one. Especially a high-powered light-weight sports car. I learned to drive in RWD vehicles. Most of them either full-size trucks/vans or my parents '82 Corolla. I've driven both FWD and RWD cars in the snow/ice, and had nothing but trouble making a FWD go where I want it to. They just don't turn very well in low traction situations. In a RWD car, you can swing the back end around if nothing else. I've learned to get by with FWD, I've had to, but it's still not the same. Ever wonder why all the high-end (think $75,000+) German cars are RWD(except Audi, of course). These things go well over 150 MPH and at those speeds, FWD just doesn't cut it. And they have NO problem with traction in the snow/ice/rain. Having said that, there is no substitute for 4wd/AWD. I would never give up my Soobs. Especially for a FWD car. But if I could make it work, I wouldn't mind converting my wagon to RWD/4wd. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest richierich Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 I have a 66 Mustang with 302 with 351 heads. It of course is a rear wheel drive. I Love my car. But don't tell me that it steers better in the rain than the xt. I am not talking about going 110mph, I am talking about everyday driving. I think living in the northwest me, geof and reoff are on the same wave length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zak Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 I drove a '68. It was scary, and that was with a low powered 6 cyl and an automatic. I live in Alaska. I did a good deal of driving in bad weather in an Isuzu truck with bad CV joints which made it impossible to use 4wd. It was nearly as scary as a front drive car. I did try driving my XT in FWD during winter a few times. It was even more scary than the truck... of course, it did have about twice as much power. I have noticed that my RX seems to deliver more power to the front wheels than I'd like. If anyone knows how the center diff works on the RX, please share. I would like to modify it for a fairly strong (2/3) rear bias. I was also wishing I could have rear/4wd on my XT when I had that. It seemed to have a rear bias when 4wd was engaged and felt better balanced than my RX does. I spent the majority of last winter behind the wheel of an '87 Porsche 924S. It's front engine, rear drive with perfect (50/50) weight balance. Equiped with Blizzak snow tires, I had little trouble with this car. Several times, I followed late model front drive cars through turns that nearly caused them to slide off the road. My car barely even slipped. I feel that the ideal setup is a 50/50 weight balance and a 33/67 drive torque distribution during normal driving. The reason for the rear drive bias is to reduce stress on the front wheels during cornering. They are more likely to slip if they have both the steering load and a large amount of drive torque. This causes severe understeer which is often difficult to impossible to correct. In terms of recoverability, a serious oversteer is much better than a serious understeer. That said, the idea is to reduce the likelyhood of skid conditions as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeoffreyR Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 See, I'm the exact opposite from Reoff... I learned to drive on FWD cars. Specifically, Subarus. It's not blazing speed I'm concerned with... if I was, I'd be driving a Porsche, not a Subaru. It also depends on driver competence with a given type of drive. I could drive circles around rich with FWD because I know exactly how it reacts to situations. However, put me behind a RWD car and I'll probably complelety lose control, even on dry pavement. However, we're both at a happy medium in 4WD. Hence the Subaru. (or in my case becase FWD is cheap and I'm very used to it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reoff Posted October 13, 1999 Share Posted October 13, 1999 Geoff is right. At this point, he could drive circles around me in a FWD car. But that could change in the not too distant future. I can't drive older Mustangs very well either. But in a newer 5.0... watch out. Ever try cornering in a '93 Town Car. There's a car that proves Geoff's point. What a BOAT! Not at all unlike *COUGH* a '72 Impala wagon... I think we should disqualify poorly engineered beasts like that from our discussion right now. :-) P.S. Blizzaks can make almost any car do exceptionally well on snow/ice. I can drive circles around ANYTHING with mine, and I don't even need to engage 4wd to do it(but it helps). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ShawnW Posted October 13, 1999 Share Posted October 13, 1999 Do they make that type of tire in standard GL subaru sized tire, like for my 86 Hatchback with the wagon wheel rims? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GeoffreyR Posted October 13, 1999 Share Posted October 13, 1999 Hell yeah! They make 'em for just about any size you can think of. Rich runs 185/70R13 Blizzaks on his stock GL-10 wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ShawnW Posted October 13, 1999 Share Posted October 13, 1999 How much are they for the stock wheel size, what dealers usually carry them?? Ive never seen a set in the midwest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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