sandman Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 OK, heres the situation. Motor was ticking bad. I replaced the seals on the oil pump and it went away for several months. The previous seals where bad and broken. A few weeks ago I went on a wheeling trip to test out the dual range conversion. After one specific hard bump, the oil light flipped on and the ticking began again. I shut it off and cooled it down and it fired up OK with no oil light. Driving around I would get occasional oil light flashes and off and on ticking. I the installed an aftermarket oil guage. I connect the guage into where the sender for the oil light was. The pump also has a sender for a stock guage as this motor is not the origianal. I didnt use it as I didnt have the adapter on me at the time. So now the guage see's about 15 pounds when first fired up and it quickly drops to around 7 to zero puns no matter what the engine is doing. Rpm seems to make no difference at all. Sooo.... Is that the correct place to connect the guage in the first place? Before the hard bump, no ticking and no oil light at all. Any ideas? Would this be a bad oil pump or should I get ready for an engine rebuild? It runs great, just bad oil pressure even with fresh oil in it. Let me know what you think. I'm ready to tear it back down to look at the oil pump again but I'm looking for other opinions first. This is on my '87 GL10 Turbo car. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 What might have happened was you lost some prime in one of the hyd lifters. Give it some time and see if it quits ticking. As for the low oil pressure, its quite common for the pressure to drop to almost zero on the analog gauges. But it does depend on the oil pump on how high it will get. If you can handle the hassle of removing the pump again, I would do it just to check the seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 the pressure regulator may be giving you troubles try 15w50 oil how2 install guage http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?p=108211#post108211 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Possibility of some deposits in the engine being knocked loose from the "specific hard bump", and it is now partially clogging the pick-up tubes screen. Would suggest dropping oil pan and having a look-see there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman Posted November 27, 2004 Author Share Posted November 27, 2004 Thanks for the replies! Looks like I have the guage hooked up correctly then. I have been driving it around for about a month with no changes so it looks like I'll get to tear it back down again. Thanks for the idea on the oil pick up. I'll drop the pan and check it out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Look at your oil pan!!!! Is it dented? That sump for your oil pickup to the oil pump is VERY close to the bottom of your oil pan. WOuld supprise me if you dented the pan upto the sump and are getting some oil starvation. Also look at the wire from the sending unit up to your guage. Those tend to go bad also.... mgith have cought it on something and damaged the wire? Damaged the sending unit? Those sending units and wires are real suseptibale to damage and funny oil pressure readings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman Posted November 28, 2004 Author Share Posted November 28, 2004 I'll check out the pan. I've got the pump out right now and it looks fine. Thinking about shimming the spring a little for some more pressure. I've installed a mechanical guage so its good on that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Since you have the pump out I would think about replacing it with a new one. Then you will know that it won't be a problem for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 Fixed! I did two things. The oil pump speced out just fine. So I shimmed up the releif valve so I could get some more pressure out of it. And, MorganM was on the money. The oil pan was dented up real good. I ended up sliding a large scredriver in through the oil drain plug hole and did some bending around. Fired it back up with fresh oil and filter and hit 85 pounds! Held steady at 80 pounds. I'll drive it to work tomorow and see how it does after it gets warmed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Thanks for the update Sandman. With that much pressure you won't have to worry about low pressure anymore but maybe too much pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 I took it out and got it up to temperature to see where things ended up at. I ripped it up good to get the oil real hot, took some good long pulls with the turbo winding, etc... At 3,000 rpm the pressure sits at 45 pounds with oil good and hot. At 4,000 rpm the pressure is a little over 50 pounds. At idle the pressure was at the lowest I saw of 16 pounds. It was 20 pounds when I stopped rodding it and things cooled down some. This is on a motor with almost 200K on it. I dont know what it was before increasing the pressure on the pump. It would be interesting to see. And not a tick in sight. :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Those sound like good numbers to me. Maybe you will get another 200k on this engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 ... I dont know what it was before increasing the pressure on the pump. It would be interesting to see... The shimming of the pressure relief valve should have no effect on the oil pressure at idle when the oil is hot, and unlikely to have any effect on the pressure at higher engine speeds when the oil is hot. It is meant to keep from overpressuring when the oil is more viscous or when the pump is new and running very fast. What you need to be careful about is how high the pressure is after a cold start. Evil, nasty, and expensive things can happen if the oil pump tries to put out too much pressure. Cautions being said, I am glad that you got your pressure back to normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Interesting info Northwet. Thanks for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 I disagree, the spring does make a difference. Every aftermarket high pressure pump that I have been into has been a stock unit with a higher tension of relief spring. Some pumps that I have had even came with diffferent springs so that you could tailor the pressure. Now, I've only built a few dozen race motors so I'm sure that you could get high dollar parts that have a higher tooth count or something but I dont see how it could be done with a redesign of the entire pump. Then you are talking dollars. The prices that I have seen on high volume pumps for Subaru's tell me that the spring is the only mod besides its also a new pump. The relief valve is not an all or nothing thing. it is variable and in one way or another, is always letting oil relieve past the high pressure side. The spring is not strong enough and the seal is not good enough to only start oil pressure relief at a certain level. It is always there, just becoming more pronounced as pressure rises. Its not like a water thermostat where it opens or shuts at a certain temperature. Shimming the spring will always raise overall pressure unless the system (meaning pump and or motor) is in bad shape. I do admit that shimming it up is a bit redneck and the proper method is to replace the entire spring with a higher tension version, a few washers always works in a pinch and is a cheap trick to get some more time out of an older motor. The nice thing is you can do this to an EA82 without pulling the pump. It could be a 2 minute job for somebody with a 12mm socket and a few washers. Now that I've said my little speech, I'd like a few more people to give it a try and see what happpens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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