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Power windows again...


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35 replies to this topic

#1 Alf

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 01:12 AM

Hello everyone,

I have a '86 Leone 3 doors Coupe, and my power windows making me crazy.
I've searched the forum for the related topics, but didn't find cure for this, yet. The current situation is that the passenger window works perfectly, but just from the passenger switch, the driver's window doesn't move at all. I took apart the driver's switches, measured the switches, both works, even the lock switch is working (if it's in locked position, the window on the passenger side can't be controlled, so it does work). The strange thing is there's no power to the driver's switch at any wire. I looked around for the power window relay, as you mentioned below the passenger seat, but I didn't find any. Actually, there's nothing, or I didn't look on the right place. Exactly, where that should be? Do you have any pictures about this, or could you explain detailed where can I find that? Or do you have any suggestions, what should I check? I'm totally disappointed now. :-\

I almost forgot to mention that I tested the driver's side window motor, directly wired from the battery, and it works fine up and down.

Thanks in advance,
Alf

#2 chef_tim

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 06:11 AM

I would suggest pulling up the passenger side carpet and looking for the hot wires that run under it to the windows. There is a one to three split that will corrod and not give you power. Later, Tim

#3 Alf

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 06:17 AM

Thanks for the advice, I'll look for that! Did you mean the carpet under the dash or under the passenger seat?

I don't know does it matter or not, but my car is a carbed one, not the fuel injected.

Alf

#4 86subaru

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 07:14 AM

under the passenger seat

#5 Alf

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 07:16 AM

under the passenger seat



OK, thanks. I will check again, because for first I didn't find anything down there. I'm very curious now. :D

#6 Alf

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 11:55 PM

I checked the relay again, now I found it. It looks like it's in good shape, no corrosion at all at any connectors/terminals. The connections have some kind of protective grease on them. So, that part looks OK, but I still have no power at the driver's door switches. Any more ideas?

Does anyone have a circuit diagram about this? I just bought a repair manual on Ebay, but I didn't get it yet...

#7 torxxx

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 01:09 AM

I'm very familiar with Legacy wiring for power windows. The circuit they run on goes clockwise when the windows are going down and counter clockwise when the window goes up. sounds like you have a wire grounded somewhere under the carpet, in the door pillars or in the door its self.

One short circuit on any one of the windows will make the whole system not work.

The last time I chased a short, I had to rip the whole car apart. seats out, take the carpet out, take off all the trim around the pillars and get in there with a test light.

Keep in mind that this wiring was on a legacy, and it MAY be different on a Leone

#8 Alf

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 01:27 AM

The last time I chased a short, I had to rip the whole car apart. seats out, take the carpet out, take off all the trim around the pillars and get in there with a test light.


Thanks, that sounds hard. :-\

On the weekend I will strip the car to metal. :)

Anyway, I need the wiring diagram to know which wire should read ground or 12V or anything. Without this I'm totally lost, I think.

#9 chef_tim

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 02:27 AM

Don't strip the whole car just yet!!! The connector is under the carpet where your feet are when you are sitting in the seat. You may need to pull the seat and the plastic trim piece that holds the carpet down. Then you will find the connections that I'm talking about. Tim

#10 Alf

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 02:35 AM

I did see connectors only at the relay unit, and I focused only on that. :banghead:

OK, I'll start with that today, and if it's in a right shape, then I'll start to strip. I mean, the car, of course. :D

#11 Alf

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 04:48 AM

After some days (a week, uh), I finally took out the passenger seat again. So, there's no a damn connector at all! There's a Y shaped bunch of wires, and that's all, no connector!

I will take the car to a more experienced car electronic expert, I just don't have time and patience to find the "broken link". :-\

Alf

#12 Alf

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 04:57 AM

Still going crazy :-\

Update:

You won't believe this!!!
If somebody sits on the front passenger seat, the windows work perfectly from any swith to any door!! What the heck?!! AAArrrghhh :banghead:

#13 royboy159

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Posted 18 March 2005 - 02:56 AM

Still going crazy :-\

Update:

You won't believe this!!!
If somebody sits on the front passenger seat, the windows work perfectly from any swith to any door!! What the heck?!! AAArrrghhh :banghead:

Hey Alf----Sounds like the weight of the passenger flexing the wires/connectors/relays may be producing the window functioning effect. It surprising you didn't get the same effect when you took out the seat and carpet. Did you get the problem solved?

#14 Txakura

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 10:38 PM

This is EXACTLY what my Loyale rs (Leone to the rest of the world) is doing, I sure wish I knew how this turned out...

I'd be happy to find the breaker for the window circuit... where is that dasm thing hidden?

#15 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 10:52 PM

Maybe it is just a Loosen Plug / Ripped Wire that makes good Contact with Weight on the Passenger`s Seat.

Also, if you look your relay in very good Shape, that doesn`t mean that it is Working good... Some relays have internal fail due to Hidden Rust, etc... So I Suggest you to Test it.

if you Test the Relay and it is bad, I Suggest to read my Writeup about how to Swap a Bosch Standard Relay where Round Relays are... Just Click on my Avatar, and you`ll reach a List of some of my Writeups.

I Hope this can Help.

Kind Regards!

#16 Txakura

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:02 PM

well, I don't have the passenger seat trick going, but the same symptoms...

where is the relay?

#17 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:15 PM

as it has been said, under the Front Passenger`s seat Carpet



#18 Txakura

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 12:00 AM

as it has been said, under the Front Passenger`s seat Carpet


aaaggggghhh I found it, who's bright freakin' idea was it to mount it there, under the door threshold/seat/carpet? :banghead:

if this legendary system were to have a resettable breaker, where would that be? Chilton's is clueless...

#19 Txakura

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 12:02 AM

as it has been said, under the Front Passenger`s seat Carpet


yeah, I just didn't realize that meant pulling so much, that is one handy sucker to get to...

#20 subiemech85

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 02:44 AM

BREAKER is black, round, with 2 wires, self resetting

#21 Gloyale

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 01:00 PM

Okay okay, the relay and breaker are under the carpet. The ground for the circuit is there too, and may be corroded.

There is also a spot in the harness, about a foot or 2 back from the connection to the PW unit, where 3 (or 5 for sedan,wagon) wires are crimped toghether. They are all red wires, and are the 12V source for each of the door switches. This connection can corrode easily. It's wrapped up in tape, just about directly in the middle of the passenger seat floor, right were your feet would go if the seat is slid all the way back.



BUT WAIT! don't dig into the whole interior until you test for power going to the door.

Pull the kick panel on the drivers side. Locate the 2 pole connector, with a Red and a Black wire, Heavier gauge than most of the other wires. Test the red wire for 12V with the key on.

If you have power there, then the issue is in the door harness(I've seen wires break from bending with door opening and closing)

If you do not have power on that wire, THEN start digging under the carpet.

Edited by Gloyale, 22 January 2009 - 01:03 PM.


#22 Txakura

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 01:24 PM

BREAKER is black, round, with 2 wires, self resetting


odd little dealy, not even what I was expecting the breaker to look like

#23 Txakura

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 01:26 PM

Okay okay, the relay and breaker are under the carpet. The ground for the circuit is there too, and may be corroded.

There is also a spot in the harness, about a foot or 2 back from the connection to the PW unit, where 3 (or 5 for sedan,wagon) wires are crimped toghether. They are all red wires, and are the 12V source for each of the door switches. This connection can corrode easily. It's wrapped up in tape, just about directly in the middle of the passenger seat floor, right were your feet would go if the seat is slid all the way back.



BUT WAIT! don't dig into the whole interior until you test for power going to the door.

Pull the kick panel on the drivers side. Locate the 2 pole connector, with a Red and a Black wire, Heavier gauge than most of the other wires. Test the red wire for 12V with the key on.

If you have power there, then the issue is in the door harness(I've seen wires break from bending with door opening and closing)

If you do not have power on that wire, THEN start digging under the carpet.



OK. after I find my multi meter and valium, I'll check it out - good advice

#24 Txakura

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 08:51 PM

breaker has continuity, relay coil has continuity, relay seems to work, breaker power is always hot, relay power is hot with key on, passenger door window switches work fine, hmmm passenger side gets it's own power from relay but the ground is routed through the master switch? interesting that the master panel can disable the passenger side with the window lock out

really seems to be heading back to the main panel power supply as the issue

wiring is surprisingly clean and corrosion free, ground wires nearby are also clean, floor pan looks really good, no moisture signs under carpet

heading over to driver kick panel to see what can be seen with master power

#25 Txakura

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Posted 23 January 2009 - 12:14 AM

If you have power there, then the issue is in the door harness(I've seen wires break from bending with door opening and closing)


well well well

I have power all the way to the kick panel, it now seems it has to be exactly as you said, possibly in that short run from the kick panel, through the door frame...

It's pretty hard to see what might be going on. I was thinking the easiest way to deal with this would be to cut the red wire above the connector inside the car, splice a new wire on, and fish it through into the door. When the correct length is reached, splice above the connector in the door. By removing the tape and pulling the old wire clear while I worked, I'm sure I'd find the break in the insulation just as you described.




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