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Nissan Injectors?


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119 replies to this topic

#1 Ross

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 01:54 AM

I read in an old thread that nissan 300zx injectors can be used on the ea81/82s. Is anyone using them, or seen them used?
Are there any other options for injector upgrades?

#2 rallyruss

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 03:53 AM

I dont know the specifics but nissans do use the same type of injector as the older subes.
the only problem I see is that the stock fuel system will not be able to handle the larger injectors. that leaves the option of aftermarket ECM or mega squirt to manage them. and it still may be a bit tricky.
now I could be wrong but I have not heard of too many people having problems with the injectors flow ability. some people have found the need to trick the system into running richer than normal but that was a race thing if I rember correctly.
a long time ago on an old message board far far away. someone stated that our injectors flow the same as a WRX unit. I have no facts to back that up but I do rember it being stated.

#3 WJM

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 09:12 AM

I snagged a set of SR20 (the US 2.0 liter 4 cyl) injectors from an 85 RWD 180 SX or whatever it was...they were 'blue' ones...as opposed to the red of the subies.

They worked...but the car ran like crap. Made no difference in performance at all....the difference it did make was it ran like crap. Got the same MPGs tho.

#4 garner

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 01:52 PM

I am sure the stock ECU would get very confused by larger injectors but I feel that the injectors are a major bottle neck in the potential performance of the EA82T. If I understand correctly, the stock injectors flow 180cc/min...correct me on that if I'm wrong. (Corrected, thanks calebz)


Check out this handy injector sizing chart from the Megasquirt pages

http://www.megasquir...l/minj.htm#size

scroll down a bit and you'll find it. Even if we are realistic and hope for 150hp out of an EA82T ( I want 200 :brow: ) The stock injectors can't keep up with the engine's needs. These figures are for NA engines, turbos should add 10%. And these are MINIMUM figures. With the additional 10% for turbo, we are looking for about 250 cc/min minimum. So stock injectors are about 75% of what is needed for 150hp

Bottom line, stock injectors are way too small!!!

Sollution? Megasquirt or some after market engine control and bigger injectors (I'm goin' stock WRX injectors and custom rails about 375cc) Using Megasquirt I will be able to control the pulse width and opening time to dial the fuel up but not to far....

#5 NorthWet

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 02:53 PM

We might be able to tell how close to max'd out the injectors are by looking at a usable Megasquirt map. As in, what is the duty cycle (on time, whatever) of the injection map when the engine is near max power/RPM? (My terminology may be off, but please forgive as I have been awake far too many hours.)

#6 All_talk

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 03:39 PM

The injectors from the Datsun 280Z FI look like a direct fit, though I haven’t confirmed that yet, I’ve got the Datsun ones (complete 280Z manifold), but don’t feel like pulling one out of my RX just now to check (daily driver). Anybody got an old subie injector I can spec out?

The 280Z/ZX N/A (green?) ones are rated 188cc @ ?psi, the later turbo ones (brown) are 265cc @ 45psi, not sure about flow of the 300ZX/T ones (but I know a site to search).

This pic may add some information. Note: the ZXT injector uses a different holder, we might need these to mount them on the Sube.

Posted Image

Might be an option for slightly higher than stock boost and I think idle and off boost richness might be solved with some FPR tweaks. If we adjusted FPR so the flow of the bigger injector was very near stock at idle we might get the stock ECU to work. Might need a progressive rate FPR to get the higher flow on boost. Does anyone know of a FPR that give you adjustment of both pressure offset and rate?

Side note: From all I’ve seen the stock ECU goes very rich under boost, this is for charge cooling no doubt. But if an IC is added to keep charge temps down, we should be able to add some boost to make more efficient use of this extra fuel without going to lean… maybe 10-12psi? I guess you could add the IC and jack the boost tell it pings, then back it off a bit (if you can get passed the fuel cut).

Just some thoughts
Gary

#7 calebz

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:22 PM

Just an added note.. stock injectoers are in the 180-185cc range.

No, I can't quote a source.. I can't find the link the info came from. You'll just have to believe me.. although theres the possibility I could be wrong, In which case its best to ignore me.. you be the judge:-p

#8 JWX

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 07:11 PM

I snagged a set of SR20 (the US 2.0 liter 4 cyl) injectors from an 85 RWD 180 SX or whatever it was...they were 'blue' ones...as opposed to the red of the subies.

They worked...but the car ran like crap. Made no difference in performance at all....the difference it did make was it ran like crap. Got the same MPGs tho.

ummm.....that would have been a CA18 if it was a four, as the SR20 (**** motor) wasn't made in 85 (I think, but I am sure the S12 never got the SR20 in America)

#9 garner

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 07:39 PM

Just an added note.. stock injectoers are in the 180-185cc range.

No, I can't quote a source.. I can't find the link the info came from. You'll just have to believe me.. although theres the possibility I could be wrong, In which case its best to ignore me.. you be the judge:-p


Based on about the same level of evidence as you, I concure they are about 180. This is assuming that the XT6 and EA82T have the same flow rate

This is based on Myxlplyx having posted a sheet having had his xt6 injectors cleaned and flow tested.

Anyway, they are still too small

I edited my previous post just too keep things real

garner

#10 WJM

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 09:36 PM

ummm.....that would have been a CA18 if it was a four, as the SR20 (**** motor) wasn't made in 85 (I think, but I am sure the S12 never got the SR20 in America)


yeah, the stock engine was a 1.8...but the 2.0 was found from a later year. either way, the same injectors on both engines.

#11 Caboobaroo

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 06:18 PM

I was the one looking for bigger injectors for my EA81TT plans and this is what I came up with. The injectors from a 84-86 300ZX would bolt right in. Not sure of the cc or the flow rate of them, just have a feeling that they have a better flow rate and are a larger cc....

#12 WJM

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 07:53 PM

STi pinkies.

#13 oddcomp

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 01:39 AM

and yes
with a good megasquirt datalog file you can see the duty cycle of how the injectors are working
but thats info is only as good as how the whole system is tuned
in other words if your not set to inject enough fuel in the first place to make the max power you could then.. until that point is adjusted then the datalog is useless on duty cycle as it wills till be wrong
at least.. thats how i see it

but on my 10 psi non intercooled msnedis wagon .. until i hammered it it ran great and got enough fuel finally <stock ecu sucks> but anything say aboe oh. 80 percent or 90 percent throttle and it bogged down casue it was drowning

and then i killed he tranny and have not been able to get it running since
so at least for now i am pretty much out of the ms tuning game and can only g o on what i have seen when it was running


but it would not surprise me much to find out that after intercooling and other things that the stock injectors would not be enough

this is also a 230k motor thats orginal as far as i can tell.. so its not gonna make alot of power anyways :)

#14 Subarutex

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Posted 10 December 2004 - 03:19 PM

OK girls...

Scoured Ebay, found some good things.

Then, sifting through google, found this:
http://www.fiveomoto..._SetsNISSAN.asp

Look under the Second column.

Bosch #62004

Resistence: 2.7 Ohms
Flow: 300cc/min (32lbs) open
25.6lbs/hr 80% duty cycle

$286 for a set of 6, plus a $36 core charge.

2 sets of 6 would be 12 injectors. Enough for 3 of our cars.

$286x2 + $36x2 = 644 / 3 = $214.67 for a set of 4 300cc/min injectors.

Anybody have any good hookups at places that sell bosch parts? Might try that, i included the part number.

Seems way easier than trying to adapt different style injectors into the manifold.

#15 garner

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 06:24 PM

We might be able to tell how close to max'd out the injectors are by looking at a usable Megasquirt map. As in, what is the duty cycle (on time, whatever) of the injection map when the engine is near max power/RPM? (My terminology may be off, but please forgive as I have been awake far too many hours.)


Just thought I'd report back now that I can tell you just how much undersized the stock injectors are, especially when coupled with the stock ecu.

LAst night I did some datalogging of pulls from idle to redline (and beyond)

here is the details at the peak of my highest rev

7500 rpm (Man this thing revs!!!!)
150 kpa (7psi boost)

Injector duty cycle = 149%!!!!


I was only there for a second but I'm fairly certain I would start knocking and or the injectors would explode if I left my foot in it.

We'll see what WRX stock injectors do....

garner

#16 WJM

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 07:42 PM

SO where exactly to i get these stock appearing 300 cc ones...or the 450 redone ones? 300 ZX turbo car....what years?

#17 Subarutex

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 07:52 PM

Research it.

Click that link i gave. It shows what years/models the injectors will work on.

Sorry the information isn't more apparent :rolleyes:

#18 WJM

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 07:57 PM

Research it.

Click that link i gave. It shows what years/models the injectors will work on.

Sorry the information isn't more apparent :rolleyes:


I see........ :rolleyes:

#19 Caboobaroo

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 01:49 AM

hmmmm linky no worky for me......

#20 nkx

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 02:16 AM

that link doesnt work for me either :(
i could probably get some used injectors off a '90 300zxTT

#21 Subarutex

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 03:15 PM

Link works fine for me... sucks to be you guys.

And, because i feel bad... :rolleyes:

Taken from above link:

Fitments: I-6 TURBO
1975-83 280Z (L28E)
1977-84 Maxima (L24E)
1984-86 300ZX (VG30E)
1985-86 Maxima (VG30E)
1986-87 300ZX (VG30T)



*Reconditioned/Rebuilt injectors.
Barbbed w/hose can be used for
racing applictions.


Resistence: 2.7 Ohms
Flow: 300cc/min (32lbs) open
25.6lbs/hr 80% duty cycle

*Core amount is refunded upon
return to Fiveo (See policy on this page).

Call for 450cc barbed injectors for early Z cars

FIVEOMOTORSPORT.COM - 4932 Pearce Ave, Lakewood, CA 90712
Call for inquiries - Office: (562) 867-4999, Cell: (562) 394-7218


ORDER Desk & Tech Info: (562) 867-4999 - FAX: (562)925-7422
All Fiveomotorsport Fuel Injectors sold with a 100% Replacement Workmanship Warranty


And picture...

Posted Image

#22 WJM

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 09:59 PM

thanks...but the link DID work for me! :banana:

#23 nkx

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 02:05 AM

i can get my hands on some 370cc nissan injectors. ive got half a mind to nab them if the price is right and just hold onto them until i figure out a way to actually get them into the buggy and working.

#24 Myxalplyx

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Posted 06 January 2005 - 07:52 PM

Interesting post! I had purchased some Nissan SR20DET Injectors for various reasons and also purchased a set of 1.8ltr Subaru turbo injectors (XT, RX, etc). I don't know which of the turbo Subarus these 1.8ltr injectors were from but I got them to turbocharge one of my XT6s over a year ago. The Nissan injectors were for upgrading my Impreza Outback Sport's injectors for turbo application. Here's a pic I posted at Nasioc on a similar discussion.

Posted Image

The 1st and 3rd injector is from a 1.8ltr turbo Subaru while the 2nd and 4th injectors are from the Nissan SR20DET. I'm not sure how this correlates to the Nissan Maximas and such but if they are similar, you can be the judge as to whether they will fit or not.

It's said they will work earlier in this thread. Have the Nissan injectors been installed and running successfully in either an EA81T or EA82T'd engine?

#25 calebz

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Posted 07 January 2005 - 11:22 AM

Kevin, those injectors look like they would be a pain in the ass to fit in.. Especially when there are so many others out there that would be more of a direct fit.. Porsche 928, Nizzan Z car, older eclipse. The trick is finding the ones that have the right flow rate for your needs.




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