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synthetic oil MYTHS


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69 replies to this topic

#26 grossgary

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 02:36 PM

that is the proper derivation of "dino". i find that oil from the carnivorous dinosaurs makes my car hard to start.

#27 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 03:40 PM

:lol:



#28 Quidam

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:17 PM

I switched over to synthetic (Amsoil 10W-30) with 130K on my '91 Legacy wagon. I did not experience any leaks; as a matter of fact my oil consumption decreased from 1 quart every 1500 miles to 1 quart every 5000 miles".

At one time I had a 5.7 L Chevy Van that would use 1 qt. of oil in about 1500 miles. When I put Mobile 1 in the crankcase, the oil consumption dropped to 1 qt. in about 3000 miles. Why? It remains a mystery to me to this day. And yep, synthetic can take the heat, that's where it really shines, IMHO. Makes you wonder...


"I attribute this to the fact that the synthetic is less prone to "burning" off. On the other hand when I switched to synthetic on our '80 Toyota pickup at 120K, I noticed a fine layer of oil in the engine compartment within a month of the switchover. However, I don't see any actual leaks since I switched. I can't speak to an increase in oil consumption since I change the oil every May (about 3000 miles); this is our camper wagon which only gets used during the summer months.

"

#29 Dylan86GL10

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:26 PM

oil filters still need to be changed at the recomended intervals, as dirt is dirt.

Even the Syn Oil Mfg state oil filters still need to be changed at the mfg regular interval.


Both untrue. If you use a high quality filter, it will hold more "dirt" than the crappy $1 ones. The oldest API approved synthetic company (AMSOIL) recommends 12,500 miles on their synthetic oil filters.


On the previous subjects:

If you have a high mile crapped out or badly maintained motor that is held together by gunk, then you'll probably notice more leaks with synthetic as it tends to clean the motor out and dissolve all the gunk

Synthetic oil is less volatile than conventional so evaporative loss will be less with synthetic

Synthetic has a more consistant molecule structure than the conventional oil soup so it has a higher burn point, is more stable, and affords more engine protection

QUALITY synthetic oils have a higher TBN (total base number) than conventional and will resist enginea acidity longer

You save money in the long run by using extended drain intervals, with quality synthetic oil and have better engine protection

#30 bgd73

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:33 PM

hows castrol synthetic in an old ea82?
I get quite a stench from synthetic... should I just wait it out? chemistry change?
closest I get to synthetic is castrol high mileage.
Will try it out. this is good info. Last quest into this left me thinking old engines couldn't have it.

#31 Dylan86GL10

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:39 PM

Do not buy synthetic blends, if you'd rather run a blend, buy a quality synthetic and a quality conventional and mix 50/50.

Synthetic blends contain very low % synthetic for the money.

#32 nipper

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:48 PM

Well if you buy a 1.00 oil filter you get what you deserve. I'm sorry but i dont even consider them filters. I dont kknow where you came up with that assumption. And if anyone here is using a 1.00 oil filter they need a kick in the rump.

http://www.amsoil.co...ge_6months.aspx
http://theserviceadvisor.com/oil.htm
http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm

(ok so every 6000 miles, but no way would i let a filter go 10,000 miles or more, its foolish compared to the cost of an engine)
From Mobil 1 web site
http://www.mobil1.co.../Oils_FAQs.aspx


To achieve the best peace of mind related to engine protection, many vehicle owners change their engine oils every 3,000 to 4,000 miles. Is this practice rendered meaningless with the advent of the Mobil high-endurance oils? Posted ImageConsumers should follow the maintenance practice that is best for them, and that meets their car manufacturers’ warranty. They can have peace of mind knowing the guaranteed performance and protection intervals of the Mobil line of high-endurance oils. Mobil Clean 5000, Mobil Clean High Mileage, Mobil Clean 7500, and Mobil 1 Extended Performance protect critical engine parts from lubricant-related failure for 5,000/7,500/15,000 miles -- guaranteed. (Updated March 2006)

and
http://www.dynoperfo...p?article_id=16

In fact the last one evenstates that by chainging the filter often the synthetic oil can last much longer


nipper

and a PS
http://www.newton.de...99/eng99488.htm

Notice how they are saying "drain interval" as opposed to "change interval, i just caugh that on the valvoline site. Don't get the two confused.
http://www.valvoline....asp?product=19

#33 silverhelme

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 05:20 PM

hows castrol synthetic in an old ea82?
I get quite a stench from synthetic... should I just wait it out? chemistry change?
closest I get to synthetic is castrol high mileage.
Will try it out. this is good info. Last quest into this left me thinking old engines couldn't have it.


I have used Castrol Syntec in various vehicles since it came out. The 5/50 is what I use in everything I own including all my subs that don't leak like sieves ( only one does that and I keep waiting for it to die so that I will have to replace the motor) and have not notice any excess leakage. I have noticed less oil usage and easier starts even down to -20.
I change filters about 3-4000 and oil at 6-8000.

#34 HATCHY

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 05:33 PM

Yeah synthetic for sure for ever. Its expensive. So its not good to use if you have a good sized leak :slobber: Youll be spending an arm and a leg on oil

#35 Frank B

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 05:42 PM

I'm not going to dispute the high temp or super cold temp abilities or properties of the synthetic oils, there great for the extremes.

But, unless the engine your using it in is brand new(after break in) or it's a high end car that is designed for it, what's the point? I can't see the point in using expensive oil in a used engine with crazy high miles that's allready worn and full of varnish and deposits.
Most oil filters are just strainers with a bypass that opens up when the oil is "thick" from cold temps or when it's clogged so your getting dirty oil circulating at some point anyway. When I can afford a Frantz or other oil CLEANER, I'll put that to the test. Untill then, my 217,000 mile hatch gets cheap Havoline and an off the shelf cheaper(not cheapest $1) filter.
I used full synthetic in an old Isuzu P'up once, it burned a quart in 2000 miles! No oil leaks, it just disapeared. Same thing happened to my big brother in his Hombre (S-10).
As with every oil poll, to each there own I guess ???

#36 silverhelme

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 06:03 PM

Just as a plug for sythetic I have an 88 Bronco II that I bought with 65000 on it in 1991. First thing I did was change to Castol Syntec. At 305000 I lost a Water pump and cracked a head so I completely overhauled it. When I tore it down there was no appreciable wear on anything internal ( per my mikes and dial gauges) everything was within factory specs including the bores. I did however bore it ( new O.S. pistons are actually $5.00 cheaper per hole) and put in new crank and rods along with new heads. I expect to get at least another 300000 out of it using the Syntec ( I'm already at 105000 ) and this is on a 2.9 L that are not known to generally go past 150 k.

#37 DaveT

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 07:47 PM

If you have a high mile crapped out or badly maintained motor that is held together by gunk,


One of the pre EA82 engines I ran it in was good, but pretty gunky. I don't remeber how long it was, maybe a year or few, when I took the rocker covers off it was clean!



The Amsoil filters are rated for finer filtration and longer change intervals.

Warranty? WTF is a warranty? :rolleyes: Out of 10 cars, 2 had warranties. After 90 days, I convert. Takes that long to get projects in the que.

I'm not running synthetic in my beater, just used oil & cheap oil since it burns over 1qrt / week. Handy way to get rid of old oil.:grin:

Synthetic or not depends on all the variables.
For me, saving the time not doing oil changes makes it worth it.

#38 nipper

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 08:18 PM

So who wants to talk politcs or religon (and you thought i was kidding)

nipper

#39 daeron

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 11:51 PM

So who wants to talk politcs or religon (and you thought i was kidding)

nipper



did anyone else realize that this thread, which has seen 23 posts today, is TWO YEARS OLD?!?????

14 posts in december of 2004, and 23 today. what do you MEAN, hotly debated?!??!?!?

Personally, I use canola oil. TOD has utterly vanished, i have more power, its eco-friendly, renewable resources and all that jazz.. AND its lowered my soob's cholesterol levels by 30%!!!!! :headbang:

#40 operose

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 11:55 PM

wow, my thread!

just so you know, I use dino motor oil currently. (synthetic trans and diff though) :dead:


too many leaks for my small budget :headbang:

#41 kayakertom

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:29 AM

One big MYTH is that the oil pumped from the oilfields all across the world originated from dinosaurs... If you think about it, it doesn't make sense. (How many barrels of oil from a dinosaur? How many barrels of oil of proven reserves? How many dinosaurs does that imply?)

The oil comes originally from millions of years of microorganisms in the old oceans dying and dropping down to the seafloors. Lots of geological activity burying and compressing those deposits. Further evidence of this is the examination of exploratory drilling cores - you tend to find identifiable ocean- life micro fossils in those oil bearing shales.

Mini-science lesson for the day.

#42 beataru

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:31 AM

My Gl-10 runs mobile 1 10-30, (as russ stated:headbang: ). Regardless on what anyone says, about any vehicle, even 50 years from now(if cars still run on petrol, of COURSE THEY WILL:banana: ) I change oil and filter at 3000 miles, on my dads f250, isuzu NPR (which curently will never run synthetic) and the 04 taco, so about the oil filters, buy a quality filter, FROM THE DEALER, or from someone like Mahle, purolator, or KAM(not to be confused with K&N). Use an OEM filter because they were designed for the vehical with the engine in mind, not your pocket... Wix has nice thick filters too. You guys should check them out, they brag their filters have like more pleats.

#43 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:42 AM

Regardless on what anyone says, about any vehicle


Way to me open minded kid. Lots of luck to ya.

I change oil and filter at 3000 miles


That's actually detrimental. The PH of synthetic has barely stabilized at that point. Plus with the cost of synth being changed so often, you could afford to have oil analysis done and get a true breakdown of the heavy metals, acids, and alkalids of the oil.

Not to mention that regular dino oil, changed every 7500 miles, with a new (quality like WIX/Napa, or a few others) filter every 15k per the owners manual is perfectly fine for your soob.

Most of this 3,000 BS is perpetrated by the oil companies, and dealerships that make money off frequent oil changes. Very, very few vehicle manufacturers reccomend 3,000 mile changes at this point - so basically you are operating off of reccomendations for 50 year old equipment. Don't you suppose that engine construction/materials and oil engineering has made some advancements in that time?

GD

#44 nipper

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 01:06 AM

did anyone else realize that this thread, which has seen 23 posts today, is TWO YEARS OLD?!?????

14 posts in december of 2004, and 23 today. what do you MEAN, hotly debated?!??!?!?

Personally, I use canola oil. TOD has utterly vanished, i have more power, its eco-friendly, renewable resources and all that jazz.. AND its lowered my soob's cholesterol levels by 30%!!!!! :headbang:


this is whay we like them to die out. There are more recent ones in the new gen board.
Besides the way some of these people use syn oil, thier opil may be 2 year old too

*hides*



nipper

#45 jeffast

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 02:38 AM

Besides the way some of these people use syn oil, thier opil may be 2 year old too

*hides*



nipper

wtf?

#46 nipper

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 08:47 AM

wtf?


Joke, it was a joke.

And i agree chainging synthetic oil every 30000 miles is a huge waste of money, even though there is no such thing as chaining oil too often.

Another thing is to make sure the oil level is checked regularyly. You can burn/use a qt in 3000 miles, so if you go to 6000 mile interval or more and dont check the level, you can run dangerously low (especially since we have a low volume of oil).

nipper

#47 Quidam

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 11:00 AM

Subaru recommends 3750 mile oil and filter changes for "Severe Driving". A lot of people follow the factory recommendation with good reason.

Long runs on the freeway/Interstate, in my experience, 5000 to 7500 miles is realistic from good oil and a quality oil filter. YMMV and probably will.

Severe driving is:
Repeated short trips, stop-and-go, extensive idling (urban driving)
Rough, muddy, dusty, wet, cold salty conditions
Towing a trailer *notes
1: under severe driving replace ever 3,750 miles



Way to me open minded kid. Lots of luck to ya.



That's actually detrimental. The PH of synthetic has barely stabilized at that point. Plus with the cost of synth being changed so often, you could afford to have oil analysis done and get a true breakdown of the heavy metals, acids, and alkalids of the oil.

Not to mention that regular dino oil, changed every 7500 miles, with a new (quality like WIX/Napa, or a few others) filter every 15k per the owners manual is perfectly fine for your soob.

Most of this 3,000 BS is perpetrated by the oil companies, and dealerships that make money off frequent oil changes. Very, very few vehicle manufacturers reccomend 3,000 mile changes at this point - so basically you are operating off of reccomendations for 50 year old equipment. Don't you suppose that engine construction/materials and oil engineering has made some advancements in that time?

GD



#48 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 03:35 PM

Subaru recommends 3750 mile oil and filter changes for "Severe Driving". A lot of people follow the factory recommendation with good reason.


But that's an exception to the rule, and it's even MORE reason to use non-synth oil. There is really no difference at those kind of mileages. Synth's big advantage is it's ability to go longer between oil changes before the contaminates saturate the oil. With an older EA engine, it's going to burn and leak enough that you could literally NEVER change it. Change the filter and top it off and it would still be fine.

Also - if you do the "Severe Driving" thing then you should be keeping track of hours not miles.

GD

#49 nipper

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 03:43 PM

But that's an exception to the rule, and it's even MORE reason to use non-synth oil. There is really no difference at those kind of mileages. Synth's big advantage is it's ability to go longer between oil changes before the contaminates saturate the oil. With an older EA engine, it's going to burn and leak enough that you could literally NEVER change it. Change the filter and top it off and it would still be fine.

Also - if you do the "Severe Driving" thing then you should be keeping track of hours not miles.

GD


Severe driving is basically anyone that drives in bumper to bumper rush hour traffic.

A lot of this argument is silly. Personally to protect the engine, what is the big deal ?.
The previous owner of my car changed the oil once a year weather it needed it or not (they were driving 14,000 miles a year). AT 198,000 it threw a rod right through the block. I bought the car at 181,000 miles.
Was it synthetic or not, I have no idea.
There is no such thing as too often an oil change as far as the health of the engine is concerned. There is such a thing as too long an interval. But i look at it this way. If somone wants to run Synthetic and do only one oil/filter change every 10,000 miles, thats fine, I just wont buy a car from them. If the car starts burning oil, its their money, not mine.

nipper

#50 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 04:24 PM

A lot of this argument is silly. Personally to protect the engine, what is the big deal ?.


It's not silly at all. You are talking about impacting the environment, your wallet, and a big investment of time. But largely what we have done here is guesswork. If you want a real answer, then it's got to be based on your specific circumstances. Arguing about oil change intervals is like arguing over how hot you like your shower. What works for some, may not work for all.

Here's a good breakdown of current theory's on oil change interval. Many based on good, actual science not the seat of the pants dyno and the reading of chicken bones:

http://neptune.space...s/interval.html

Check out the rest of that site too - there's lots of interesting info including a full on oil analysis of mobile 1 and amsoil at 1,000 mile intervals. The Mobile 1 hung on for 18,000 miles and didn't need a new filter till 12,000 (Wix). This was in a 2002 Z28 Camaro....

Here's a tasty quote for ya:

"Based on the results we've got here, we'd recommend 8,000 miles between oil changes on an engine that uses no oil at all, perhaps 10,000 miles on an engine that uses some oil, and 15,000 miles or beyond with a filter change every 5,000 miles. This, of course, isn't any kind of guarantee, and you must evaluate for yourself what your engine requires. One thing we're pretty sure about though: 3,000-mile intervals is a huge waste of resources."

(no oil company advertising there :eek:)

GD




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