Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Losing lbs. for the holidays, and just over 18 cubic inches! (Engine swap time)


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 pulloff

pulloff

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 54 posts
  • Rural Western New York

Posted 21 December 2004 - 12:10 PM

Unfortunately I’m not personally losing lbs. for the holidays but my 99 outback is. Last weekend fellow board member 99obw and I did a compression test on cylinder 4 to diagnose the constant misfire. It only had 25 lbs. of compression. Not the lbs. I was hoping to lose!

So in a few weeks it’s good bye 2.5, and hello 2.2. (This is the cubic inches I was planning on loosing eventually) We hope to get the engine swap done over a weekend if all goes smooth. I have searched all the threads I can find about swapping out a 2.5 for a 2.2 but I still have a few questions:
  • I need a 95 EJ22 from a LEGACY only, how to tell?
  • Everything I read says to use a 95 LEGACY intake manifold, how to tell (I assume it would be on a 95 Legacy motor but I want to make sure)?
  • Is there any specific VIN range to stay in?
  • Does AT and Manual have the same wiring harness? (my 99 OBW has a manual)
  • I have read posts about swapping a EJ22 into a 97 and a 98 are there any minor differences in the 99.
I’m looking at a few J-Y engines and I don’t want to go through all the wiring hassle that others have gone through with using Impreza motors. I have located a few engines with low miles and I want to make sure they are 95 Legacy motors, any specific tips on the differences and what to look for would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance for the advice.

#2 wrxsubaru

wrxsubaru

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,294 posts
  • Seattle Washington US

Posted 21 December 2004 - 02:41 PM

I am not sure, but if you swap a obo1 engine to a obo2 style engine harness there may be wiring diffrences. I would rather swap in a ej22 that used obo2, so the sensors and set up would be the same. I may be wrong on this tho.

#3 Phillip

Phillip

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 167 posts
  • Eugene, OR

Posted 21 December 2004 - 07:55 PM

Have you considered repairing your 2.5? Unless the engine is smoking BADLY, the low compression you're experiencing is likely a burned valve or flat camshaft; both are repairable without removing the engine from the vehicle. At 189,000 miles, you've gotten most of the goodie out of the car; repairing the compression problem could extend the life to 225-250,000 miles. With the exception of head gasket problems, the 2.5 is a pretty strong engine.



Unfortunately I’m not personally losing lbs. for the holidays but my 99 outback is. Last weekend fellow board member 99obw and I did a compression test on cylinder 4 to diagnose the constant misfire. It only had 25 lbs. of compression. Not the lbs. I was hoping to lose!

So in a few weeks it’s good bye 2.5, and hello 2.2. (This is the cubic inches I was planning on loosing eventually) We hope to get the engine swap done over a weekend if all goes smooth. I have searched all the threads I can find about swapping out a 2.5 for a 2.2 but I still have a few questions:

  • I need a 95 EJ22 from a LEGACY only, how to tell?
  • Everything I read says to use a 95 LEGACY intake manifold, how to tell (I assume it would be on a 95 Legacy motor but I want to make sure)?
  • Is there any specific VIN range to stay in?
  • Does AT and Manual have the same wiring harness? (my 99 OBW has a manual)
  • I have read posts about swapping a EJ22 into a 97 and a 98 are there any minor differences in the 99.
I’m looking at a few J-Y engines and I don’t want to go through all the wiring hassle that others have gone through with using Impreza motors. I have located a few engines with low miles and I want to make sure they are 95 Legacy motors, any specific tips on the differences and what to look for would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance for the advice.



#4 pulloff

pulloff

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 54 posts
  • Rural Western New York

Posted 22 December 2004 - 10:51 AM

Phillip - We pulled the valve cover and the cams looked perfect. The lifters were free and everything on the top side of the head looked perfect. I believe that it is most likely a valve issue. So the head would need to be pulled. If the head is damaged it could cost upward of $500 to replace the head. I have found a few Junkyard 2.2 engines with 50-70k on them for $600 or less. I would be getting rid of an injury prone 2.5 and gaining a relatively “new” 2.2 for a minimal cost.

My wife and I drive about 30k a year so a low mileage engine seems like a better option than putting good money after bad and repairing a high mileage engine. Pulling the head would also keep my car down for multiple days. Pulling the engine and replacing could be as short as a weekend project if it goes smooth. I like the 2.5 from every respect except the HG issue but I feel like the 2.2 would be an upgrade for minimal cost. I haven’t heard many bad stories on this board about the 2.2 so I hope to gain a fair level of reliability with the swap, time will tell.

Wrxsubaru – I think your right but I’m no expert either. I believe the 95 EJ22 from a Legacy is obo2, (I don’t know about the 95 Impreza motor) From everything I’ve read the 95 will bolt right in and all the wiring will line up, as long as it’s from a Legacy. I just don’t know how to tell the difference when I go to the JY to pick one up. I know I need to look for EGR and dual port exhaust but at there any other tell tale signs of a 95 Legacy engine/intake?

#5 Phillip

Phillip

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 167 posts
  • Eugene, OR

Posted 22 December 2004 - 12:45 PM

Like you, I think the 2.2 is a stronger engine; if you can find a good one in that price range you'll have a reasonably economical fix. Consider listing your 2.5 core on ebay as good cores are desireable and hard to find. I spun two rod bearings in my 2.5 last year; after an exhaustive search for used engines or rebuildable cores I ended up purchasing a new shortblock from
subaru. I'd gladly given $300+ for a complete rebuildable engine.
Good luck with the engine swap - let us know how it works out.

Phillip - We pulled the valve cover and the cams looked perfect. The lifters were free and everything on the top side of the head looked perfect. I believe that it is most likely a valve issue. So the head would need to be pulled. If the head is damaged it could cost upward of $500 to replace the head. I have found a few Junkyard 2.2 engines with 50-70k on them for $600 or less. I would be getting rid of an injury prone 2.5 and gaining a relatively ?new? 2.2 for a minimal cost.

My wife and I drive about 30k a year so a low mileage engine seems like a better option than putting good money after bad and repairing a high mileage engine. Pulling the head would also keep my car down for multiple days. Pulling the engine and replacing could be as short as a weekend project if it goes smooth. I like the 2.5 from every respect except the HG issue but I feel like the 2.2 would be an upgrade for minimal cost. I haven?t heard many bad stories on this board about the 2.2 so I hope to gain a fair level of reliability with the swap, time will tell.

Wrxsubaru ? I think your right but I?m no expert either. I believe the 95 EJ22 from a Legacy is obo2, (I don?t know about the 95 Impreza motor) From everything I?ve read the 95 will bolt right in and all the wiring will line up, as long as it?s from a Legacy. I just don?t know how to tell the difference when I go to the JY to pick one up. I know I need to look for EGR and dual port exhaust but at there any other tell tale signs of a 95 Legacy engine/intake?



#6 99obw

99obw

    this space for rent

  • Members
  • 1,595 posts
  • Ithaca area

Posted 23 December 2004 - 07:03 AM

My experience has been that a good yard should know what the engine came out of, and certainly the year. Does the engine have the VIN on it anywhere? A helpful dealer might be able to look it up, and a helpful JY might give you the VIN over the phone.

I'm not sure about the 2.2, but AFAIK the 2.5 manual transmission engines have a timing belt guide that the auto transmission engines don't have. Can anyone confirm or deny the presence of this guide on the 2.2? That might be important for Jake to know.

Jake, have you called any of the JY's and talked to them yet? What do you know?

#7 pulloff

pulloff

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 54 posts
  • Rural Western New York

Posted 24 December 2004 - 05:54 PM

Unfortunately I haven’t had a chance to do much calling with all the busy activity for the Holidays. I’m in Massachusetts at my in-laws and I plan on jumping in the deep end with this project as soon as I get home on Tuesday. It's not that I don't trust the JY but I just want to be sure.

So far the list of things I know to look for are:
- EGR
- Dual port exhaust
- Legacy intake (still not sure exactly how to tell the difference between the Legacy and Impreza intake though).
- Timing belt guide?

If anyone knows about the timing belt guide or the intake I’d appreciate it. Have a Merry Christmas everybody.

#8 99obw

99obw

    this space for rent

  • Members
  • 1,595 posts
  • Ithaca area

Posted 28 December 2004 - 09:44 AM

Bump :headbang:

#9 ferret

ferret

    Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 668 posts
  • Northern NJ

Posted 28 December 2004 - 04:14 PM

All the Manual EJ's have it. The 1.8, 2.0, 2.2 and 2.5. It's there because the crankshaft can stop or jerk erratically (popping the clutch, etc) because it is directly engaged to the wheels. This is to prevent the timing belt from jumping a tooth or two while the belt still has inertia from the cams.
I have also seen it on 1 automatic 90 legacy when I did the timing belt. It was a car from an auto auction about 8-9 yrs ago. I suspect this was not the factory motor, but I didn't think to look at serial numbers at the time. Just did the belt and water pump back then. That one had a bad tranny a few years later and the owner junked it. It was full of gremlins....which is what made me think about the belt guide......on an automatic...or who put this 'frankenstein' together then wholesaled it.

#10 99obw

99obw

    this space for rent

  • Members
  • 1,595 posts
  • Ithaca area

Posted 28 December 2004 - 06:01 PM

Thanks ferret, so that's an affirmative on the timing belt guide. That makes getting an engine from a MT car pretty important unless the guide can be purchased from the dealer or JY. I wonder if the guide from the 2.5 will fit on the 2.2?

#11 ferret

ferret

    Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 668 posts
  • Northern NJ

Posted 28 December 2004 - 06:20 PM

Don't know...only removed and replaced during belt replacements. Question a good parts rep could look up and answer. OR maybe Emily (CCR) if she reads this thread.

#12 pulloff

pulloff

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 54 posts
  • Rural Western New York

Posted 30 December 2004 - 11:54 AM

Here’s a quick update:

I called 3 junk yards yesterday. None seemed to be very knowledgeable about the engines, they could only tell me the info that they had on their computer screens. They are all going to take a look and are going to get back to me and let me know if they have dual port exhaust, EGR, and the timing belt guide. Hopefully I’ll hear from them soon and find some time to pick one up.

One JY mentioned that if the VIN started with 6 it will definitely have a legacy intake on it, not sure if it’s true but I hope he’s right.

#13 99obw

99obw

    this space for rent

  • Members
  • 1,595 posts
  • Ithaca area

Posted 03 January 2005 - 09:10 PM

How's the search going Jake?

Just thought I would touch base and let you know the shop is busy this weekend, putting main and rod bearings in a friend's '94 Jeep. Next weekend and the several immediately following look good. If when you get the engine you want to bring it over just PM or give me a call. Scheduling a week or two to get the JY engine prepped before installation may make things much much easier.

Good luck in your search.

#14 pulloff

pulloff

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 54 posts
  • Rural Western New York

Posted 05 January 2005 - 10:24 AM

It’s been a whirlwind few weeks. I picked up a Tacoma on Ebay in the middle of last week so my wife and I took an unscheduled trip up to the White Mtns. of NH last weekend to pick it up.

I never heard anything back from any of the JY’s so I am going to give them all a call today and hopefully they will have a little more info on the motors. I am hoping to get up there this weekend and look things over and I’ll let you know how it works out.


#15 pulloff

pulloff

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 54 posts
  • Rural Western New York

Posted 12 January 2005 - 10:04 AM

Here’s a quick update and some questions:

I picked up a 95 2.2 from a JY last weekend. It’s has dual port exhaust and only 52k miles. I paid $470 for it. The motor is pretty complete; the problem is that it’s non EGR! Can I put an EGR manifold on it? And how does it plumb into the head? Is EGR located in the same spot on the 2.2 as it is on the 2.5?

Every JY I have called tells me there is only one engine for 95. They seem to act like I am crazy when I ask if the engines have EGR. They reiterate there was only one legacy engine for 95 and that they either all had EGR or none of them have EGR. Is their book wrong or am I crazy?

If the engine I picked up is not a usable engine I can return it to the JY without any hassle. I just seem to be hitting a wall dealing with the JY’s:banghead: . I’m no 2.2 expert so any help would be appreciated.

#16 99obw

99obw

    this space for rent

  • Members
  • 1,595 posts
  • Ithaca area

Posted 12 January 2005 - 12:12 PM

I found this site, that lists a one year only EJ22 for the legacy with auto tranny.

http://www.cnsmotors.com/subaru.htm

"95-95 SUBARU LEGACY AUTO 2-PORT SOHC W/EGR EJ22E"

Perhaps the missing bit of key information in your search is the auto tranny.

#17 99obw

99obw

    this space for rent

  • Members
  • 1,595 posts
  • Ithaca area

Posted 13 January 2005 - 06:59 AM

I had an idea Jake. I could pull the timing cover off of that '95 EJ22 in my shop and see if it has the timing belt guide. If it has it that may verify that it needs to be from an AT car. Let me know what you think.

#18 ccrinc

ccrinc

    The Subaru Whisperer

  • Members
  • 572 posts
  • Denver, CO

Posted 13 January 2005 - 08:51 AM

You won't find that timing belt guide on any EJ22 engine. It was put on, as an afterthought, around '98. And only on the EJ25s. The 2.2 doesn't need it, since it isn't interferential.

If the alledged '95 EJ22 doesn't have an EGR port, is isn't a '95...simple as that.

The head can be drilled and tapped for it by someone who knows what they're doing, but the head has to completely disassembled to do it. Otherwise you run the risk of metal shaving in bad places. Yes, it's in the exact same place on both engines.

Emily

http://www.ccrengines.com

#19 99obw

99obw

    this space for rent

  • Members
  • 1,595 posts
  • Ithaca area

Posted 13 January 2005 - 09:07 AM

You won't find that timing belt guide on any EJ22 engine. It was put on, as an afterthought, around '98. And only on the EJ25s. The 2.2 doesn't need it, since it isn't interferential.


I guess that does make sense for a '95 motor, but I thought the EJ22 became interferential in '97.

If the alledged '95 EJ22 doesn't have an EGR port, is isn't a '95...simple as that.


That is exactly the kind of information we need. So is it safe to say that the engine could come from a donor car with either a MT or an AT?

The head can be drilled and tapped for it by someone who knows what they're doing, but the head has to completely disassembled to do it. Otherwise you run the risk of metal shaving in bad places. Yes, it's in the exact same place on both engines.


That shouldn't be too hard to do. Would the head gaskets need to be replaced at that point? That still leaves the issue that the intake doesn't have the EGR ports cast into it.

Thanks for the detailed information Emily! Very helpful.

#20 pulloff

pulloff

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 54 posts
  • Rural Western New York

Posted 13 January 2005 - 09:47 AM

Emily - Thanks for the info, it is greatly appreciated. I like the low mileage of the engine but I don’t know if want the mess around with drilling and tapping the head to make EGR work.

The engine I have may not be the best deal after swapping the intake, replacing the HG, and finding a new oil pan.

#21 pulloff

pulloff

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 54 posts
  • Rural Western New York

Posted 18 January 2005 - 07:40 PM

Here’s a quick update:

Last Saturday fellow board member 99OBW and I took a trip to a local JY (they call themselves a recycling center which somehow makes it seem friendlier to the environment). I mad the comment that their mud was actually light brown, not the usual JY black so maybe they are protecting our planet.

They had (4) 95 Legacy’s engines to choose from. We took a quick trip out in the yard and immediately found a usable 95 EJ22 with dual port exhaust and EGR. The car had 82k on it and was hit in the right rear corner, it had an auto tranny. The engine was complete and looked good. So I made the decision that this was now the new transplant candidate. The yard said they had an additional 95 EJ22 on a rack inside that I could have and it had similar mileage. It was up on a rack and out of site but I wanted to check for EGR before I agreed to take it. After climbing up the rack I found out that it did not have EGR and the printout said it was a manual. So it appears there are 2 different legacy motors for 95 even though most JY will tell you otherwise.

Earlier that morning on the way to the yard 99OBW was telling me about his theory that the 95 EJ22’s with automatics have EGR and manuals don’t and it looks like his theory is correct. We are still not sure that the theory is 100% accurate but it sure seems to be leaning that way.

I returned my non-EGR 95 to the other yard (after much hassle, a $50 restocking fee and a cocky know-it-all owner). The owner would not admit that there were 2 different EJ22 for 95 even though one of his employees found a discrepancy in his book. It lists only one motor for 95 but it lists different exhaust bolt pattern heads for that year, a 2 bolt and a 3 bolt. So apparently there were single port exhausts on some 95 motors, I had previously thought all 95’s had dual port. I addition to that there are also different left-hand heads for the three bolt heads, one head for the autos and one head for the manuals. So if anyone else plans on doing this swap they need to make sure they get an engine from an automatic transmission Legacy to get EGR.

I should be picking up my new donor motor this week, and I’ll keep adding to this thread as info and work develops.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users