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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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ej+5mt(AWD) in GL hatch Q's


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14 replies to this topic

#1 970subaru

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 04:13 AM

I can get my hands on a legacy parts car for cheap, its a ej22 and 5mt. Ive searched and found that the motor and tranny will bolt up without *too* much trouble, so what axles(if any) will work between the 5mt and GL hubs? RX turbo? legacy? This would be for a early 80's hatch. I dont have either yet, but If I could get everything mounted up Im sure I could make it run. I would rather put the drivetrain into a justy of course but that seems like space would be too much an issue. In any case, the wiring would probably be a lot harder than the mechanical part.
can the GL cars be converted to 5 lug stuff, say with RX suspension?
are the GL cars cable clutch? If so do the clutch pedals pull about the same as a legacy cable clutch.
are the rear diffs the same(r-160)?
how much does a GL hatch weigh stock? 2300lbs? I guess the hatches are the lightest ones, but how much are the coupes and sedans? they'd be stiffer I guess. wagons are a little too heavy for what I have in mind. with a 140ish hp ej22, AWD, and weighing around 2000 lbs gutted would be a screamer. If this seems feasible I guess I'll have to start lookin for a car minus the drivetrain.

#2 MilesFox

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 07:42 AM

the legacy trans will have 25 spline axle stubs on the tranny. the hatch has 23 splines

now an ea82 axle from a turbo or full time has a 25 spline axle. the doj is considerably bigger than 2wd and most 4wd, but its the same diameter as the legacy axle

ea82 3spd automatic turbos have the fat doj and 23 splines.

you could attempt tpo put the 25 spline doj onto an ea81 axle, but diameter might be an issue. maybe check out some ea81T axles, but i dont know if they use the small or large doj. depending on the diameter of the axles themselves you may be able to swap the 25 spline doj and the unternal bearings onto an ea81 axle shaft

another option would be to offset the lower control arm mount one witdth behind the original to acommodate an ea82 axle and lower control arm. this will make your front track a hair wider and you will have more wheel travel, and it also increases negative camber

you can avoid the suspension mod if you have custom built axles.

what i would do if i was you is round up some spare axles and compare them, take them apart if you have to to compare

#3 Dr. RX

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 09:38 AM

Fox is right on about the axle spines, but that is only part of the conversion problems. The tranny mount is different, you will need to get the Legacy mount and make the rear piece narrower to match the tunnel width of the EA81, the front part should bolt up (but then I've only done this on an EA82 so I'm not 100% sure). The driveline will also have to be shortened, on an EA82 it needed to be 55mm shorter. The rear diff from the Legacy will bolt right into the Hatch. The N/A Legacy's are pull cable clutches just like the EA81s and 82s. An EA81 can be converted to a 5 lug, but requires minor mods, and EA82 series car is a bolt up. It is feasable, these are the kind of projects that I love, maybe someday I'll get all the parts I need to make the EJ20TT powered EA81 Hatch that I started some years ago, but had to sell off the parts.

#4 MilesFox

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 10:37 AM

as corky says you can also swap to 5 lugs. you would either have to some modification of the ball joint hole and tie rod holes on the 5 lug knuckle and ea81 lower control arm. the axle for a 5 lug you can use an xt6 or legacy axle, but once again these axles are too long. and an ea81 pressthru type outer cv is different than the splined cv of the 5 lug axle.

but also, the suspension mod mentioned above for ea82 axles will also accomodate the 5 lug setup as if it were on an ea82

but you will have to modify the strut cap or tower to use an ea82 or xt6/2wd legacy strut. if you go with an ea82 platform for a suspension mod you can swap an ea82 strut cap onto an xt6/2wd legacy strut. or you can adapt on the ea81 strut cap

there is a little more involved with tierods too for this, just throwing up possible combinations

#5 NorthWet

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 03:09 PM

... maybe check out some ea81T axles, but i dont know if they use the small or large doj...

Pretty sure all of the EA81Ts were automatics. That would make them 23-spline, correct?

#6 MilesFox

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 04:23 PM

yeah they will be 23 splines, all 3at turbos are. but i dont know if it has the fat doj on the ea81 axle. ea82 turbo 3spds have the fat doj for the large dia. axle (3 bands)

#7 NorthWet

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 04:29 PM

I believe that ScoobyWagon has a loose EA81T 3AT and axles that he could look at, assuming he is around.

#8 970subaru

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 06:18 PM

not too worried about the trans mount, thats seems pretty simple to fab. might not even be any welding involved.
driveshaft shortening is like $60 max
what about swapping the entire suspension over. I wish I had a EA car here to measure the suspension stuff against the legacy stuff. If the struts and control arms are close in measurement it might be possible to put that stuff in there, assuming the strut tops and control arms bolt up. that would be ideal as the newer stuff has way better brakes and suspension available.
were there any EA82 hatches or were all those EA81. sorry for the total newb question...
as for the wiring, I read somewhere that kennedy engineering has the diagram for that. something about the swap for vanagons. off to search for that on kennedy's site.

#9 Dr. RX

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 09:06 PM

were there any EA82 hatches or were all those EA81.

No, the Hatch as we call it was only an EA81, the EA82 coupe or 3dr is something wrongly called a hatch. You don't replace the whole suspension when you do a 5 bolt conversion, check out my web site, there is a section on it about the 5 bolt conversion.

#10 MilesFox

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Posted 26 December 2004 - 01:27 AM

. sorry for the total newb question...
as for the wiring, I read somewhere that kennedy engineering has the diagram for that. something about the swap for vanagons. off to search for that on kennedy's site.


i think they charge a fee, there is a source online you can see scans of the subaru factory manuals, if youre handy with a schematic you can use the soob originals

if you go and try to just bolt on the ea82 lower control arm, you can get the axle on, but it will rub the frame, and you will have to lengthen the radius rod.

if you can find an ea82 crossmember, look underneath where the lower control arm bolts thru. this is a stamped piece of metal that can be ground away and separated, and can be welded onto an ea81 crossmember so that the rear half of the mount on the ea82 is now the rear half on the ea81, and the ea81's rear mount is now the front. reason is the ea82 lower control arm curves forward and is longer, wheras ea81's are straight.

with this mount relocation the radius rods will now fit as stock. one thing i havent tried was to swap pver the ea82 swaybar, if you could make the mounts or transfer them from an ea82, you can eliminate the ea81's rear facing swaybar and have better clearance for the tranny and a dual exhaust

now, if you are going to use ea82 strut/knuckle you will now have the right ball joint hole. for the xt6 stuff you either need an xt6 lower control(same as ea82 but bigger hole) or just drill out the hole

you will have to swap in ea82 inner and outer tierods, both ends. on power racks this is possible, but not with power to manual rack. you need the extra length for the width of the track

on my example i used the ea81 strut cap on the ea82 strut. i had to make the hole bigger, keep the half moon shape and trim up the bushing. this would fit the same for legacy struts for 5lugs

#11 sportsterbrat

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Posted 26 December 2004 - 01:48 AM

Are the balljoint holes tapered? if so what type of reamer do you use?

#12 MilesFox

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Posted 26 December 2004 - 02:17 AM

i used a drill press and 2 different size bits, stepped recess

#13 Dr. RX

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Posted 26 December 2004 - 09:32 AM

Are the balljoint holes tapered? if so what type of reamer do you use?

That might work for Fox, but to be on the safe side, you should get a tapered reamer, they are available, but they are not cheap. The best thing is to just get the XT6 lower arm, then you won't have to do anything. It doesn't matter if it is a FWD or a 4WD suspension up front, either will work.

#14 JonOfScio

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Posted 26 December 2004 - 10:29 AM

I think you guys might need to rethink your auto/manual spline count issue... I grabbed a front axle from a '83 turbo wagon and put it into my 5mt FWD hatch and it worked perfectly fine, so whatever spline count my '88 hatch was, so was the 3AT turbo wagon.

#15 MilesFox

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Posted 26 December 2004 - 02:32 PM

all non turbo trannies use 23 spline. the exception is the 3spd turbo AT, 23 splines

all turbo 5spds, and all fulltime 5spds and autos have 25 splines




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