Transmission hesitation

[tacode]

Hello all. My '99 Forester (4eat, 82k mi) is starting the hesitate when shifting into into drive. Reverse works fine. Once it does engange, all gears in drive are crisp. Based on research on this site, it seems that a seal in the 4eat is not allowing sufficient pressure to build to engage the forward gear.

 

Currently, if I shift and wait for the transmission, it takes 5 to 30 seconds for the shift. If I give the car a little gas when shifting, it will shift much quicker. It's better when it's colder - stiffer seals, I guess??

 

The dealer drained/pressure cleaned the transmission, told me it was probably a seal, but told me the only way to fix it was a $2500 rebuild, or $4000 for a used transmission. I think that's parts and labor. He also said the seal would probably fail completely one day, but that could a week or years from now and that the failure would just be the car not shifting into drive.

 

Do those prices sound right (I'm in eastern PA), and is it worth it?

I'm hoping to keep this car for 4 more years. To date, it's had new HG's at 42k and 72k (3rd time's a charm!), knock sensor at 65k, rear bearings at 71k, ignition core and wires at 77k, timing belt and tensioner at 78k, all applicable recalls and campaigns, plus the usual stuff.

 

Should I just wait for it not to shift one day? I have AAA and I'm the main driver. While I consider this a fairly large issue (started at 76k mi and I'm used to it now), it bothers my wife to point she thinks I need to get rid of this car ASAP. While I can certainly entertain that idea , I think there is a lot more life in this car.

[Nug]

Someone should have a good used tranny around here. Post your request in the marketplace. An indy shop might do the install for around $500.

[mwatt]

Hello all. My '99 Forester (4eat, 82k mi) is starting the hesitate when shifting into into drive. Reverse works fine. Once it does engange, all gears in drive are crisp. Based on research on this site, it seems that a seal in the 4eat is not allowing sufficient pressure to build to engage the forward gear.

 

Currently, if I shift and wait for the transmission, it takes 5 to 30 seconds for the shift. If I give the car a little gas when shifting, it will shift much quicker. It's better when it's colder - stiffer seals, I guess??

 

The dealer drained/pressure cleaned the transmission, told me it was probably a seal, but told me the only way to fix it was a $2500 rebuild, or $4000 for a used transmission. I think that's parts and labor. He also said the seal would probably fail completely one day, but that could a week or years from now and that the failure would just be the car not shifting into drive.

 

 

 

Do those prices sound right (I'm in eastern PA), and is it worth it?

I'm hoping to keep this car for 4 more years. To date, it's had new HG's at 42k and 72k (3rd time's a charm!), knock sensor at 65k, rear bearings at 71k, ignition core and wires at 77k, timing belt and tensioner at 78k, all applicable recalls and campaigns, plus the usual stuff.

 

Should I just wait for it not to shift one day? I have AAA and I'm the main driver. While I consider this a fairly large issue (started at 76k mi and I'm used to it now), it bothers my wife to point she thinks I need to get rid of this car ASAP. While I can certainly entertain that idea , I think there is a lot more life in this car.

 

A few months ago, my 99 Legacy GT wagon (116,000 mi) developed a long delay before the trans would go into drive after a cold start (even in warm weather). I corrected the problem by changing the fluid and replacing the external spin-on transmission filter (the one that the 1999 owner's manual doesn't even mention---but in 2000 and newer Subaru owner's manuals they say "the transmission filter is a maintenance-free part....") and it solved the problem on my car. It looks like a little engine oil filter and is quite expensive---and if you choose to do this consider buying it ONLY from a Subaru dealer because even though it looks like an engine oil filter on the outside, it's substantially different on the INSIDE.....

[SevenSisters]

I recall posts about a $3 dollar or something tube that fails. Search posttings by Legacy777 to see if they match your description.

[brus brother]

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/tsbsearch.cfm

The above site lists recalls as well as TSBs. It is the NHSTA fed site. On my year (2000 GT Legacy), there was a TSB about transmission delayed engagement (defective seal) and in fact at 43K SOA replaced my trany under warranty. They just replaced it again at 72K for a different problem. I too hope this third is a charm. Can't hurt to beg SOA to pick up part of the cost as you "sensed" it before the warranty expired? Perhaps they'll share the cost with a good customer who hopes to be a repeat customer?

Good luck.

[tacode]

brus brother - good point about SOA; they did pick up the tab for the 2nd HG job, although it was 12k out of warranty.

 

seven sisters - I looked for "transmission" and "hesitation" for posts by Legacy777. Nothing popped out at me, but I'll PM him to see if it jogs his memory.

 

mwatt - I had read an earlier post about this condition and mentioned the part about the "hidden" transmission filter to the service writer at my Subaru dealer. He looked at me blankly and asked it I could point it out to the mechanic. I basicly relayed what I had read about here, and was told they would look it - turned out it was ok according to the dealer. They have never screwed me before, so while I have no reason to believe they didn't look at it, I guess I also have no reason to believe they actually did. Is this filter easy to get at from underneath? Also do you recall a part number or know where I can look it up? 1stSubaruParts.com doesn't return anything that seems related.

 

Nug - I'll probably go that route if SOA says no way. So what should be a ballpark price for a used 4EAT? I saw one on ebay pulled from an SVX for $1600. Is that representative of what I'll find? Am I looking for a 4eat from a 99 forester specificly, or will any do?

 

Last question - given the choice and resources, which is preferable and why: rebuild existing trans or replace with used trans?

 

Thanks for all the input!

[friendly_jacek]

brus brother - good point about SOA; they did pick up the tab for the 2nd HG job, although it was 12k out of warranty.

 

seven sisters - I looked for "transmission" and "hesitation" for posts by Legacy777. Nothing popped out at me, but I'll PM him to see if it jogs his memory.

 

mwatt - I had read an earlier post about this condition and mentioned the part about the "hidden" transmission filter to the service writer at my Subaru dealer. He looked at me blankly and asked it I could point it out to the mechanic. I basicly relayed what I had read about here, and was told they would look it - turned out it was ok according to the dealer. They have never screwed me before, so while I have no reason to believe they didn't look at it, I guess I also have no reason to believe they actually did. Is this filter easy to get at from underneath? Also do you recall a part number or know where I can look it up? 1stSubaruParts.com doesn't return anything that seems related.

 

Nug - I'll probably go that route if SOA says no way. So what should be a ballpark price for a used 4EAT? I saw one on ebay pulled from an SVX for $1600. Is that representative of what I'll find? Am I looking for a 4eat from a 99 forester specificly, or will any do?

 

Last question - given the choice and resources, which is preferable and why: rebuild existing trans or replace with used trans?

 

Thanks for all the input!

The AT filter is a black, screw on, engine oil-like filter outside and below the AT just forward to the ATF pan. Easy to do yourself but may be hard to unscrew, get a filter wrench or aid before starting. If the dealership is cluess about it, well they are cluess about newer subarus.

[mwatt]

brus brother - good point about SOA; they did pick up the tab for the 2nd HG job, although it was 12k out of warranty.

 

seven sisters - I looked for "transmission" and "hesitation" for posts by Legacy777. Nothing popped out at me, but I'll PM him to see if it jogs his memory.

 

mwatt - I had read an earlier post about this condition and mentioned the part about the "hidden" transmission filter to the service writer at my Subaru dealer. He looked at me blankly and asked it I could point it out to the mechanic. I basicly relayed what I had read about here, and was told they would look it - turned out it was ok according to the dealer. They have never screwed me before, so while I have no reason to believe they didn't look at it, I guess I also have no reason to believe they actually did. Is this filter easy to get at from underneath? Also do you recall a part number or know where I can look it up? 1stSubaruParts.com doesn't return anything that seems related.

 

Nug - I'll probably go that route if SOA says no way. So what should be a ballpark price for a used 4EAT? I saw one on ebay pulled from an SVX for $1600. Is that representative of what I'll find? Am I looking for a 4eat from a 99 forester specificly, or will any do?

 

Last question - given the choice and resources, which is preferable and why: rebuild existing trans or replace with used trans?

 

Thanks for all the input!

Beginning model year 1999, the automatic trans filter is external---it's not hidden at all. From under the vehicle, it's plainly visable on the "driver's side" of the transmission case, close to the front of the transmission--it is up a little high on the case though, so the vehicle has to be on jackstands or a lift to see it. The filter (part # 38325AA302) looks like a little engine oil filter but it's painted black with white lettering--as I recall, some of the lettering says "A/T only". The filter unscrews from the transmission case, just as an engine oil filter unscrews from the engine block. I used a large pair of Channel-locks to break the filter free (because it's too small in diameter for my oil filter wrench). The filter is expensive--I paid about 25.00. Please consider my earlier suggestion about purchasing this only at a Subaru dealer because it's no ordinary filter and I suspect there's some confusion about it in the "aftermarket".....

 

By the way, I changed the trans fluid TWICE, deliberately. Went to the local WalMart and bought 10 qts of the "house brand" Dexron III ATF. I drained the existing fluid (you know there's a drain plug for the trans, right? It looks just like an engine oil drain plug...) and refilled it WITHOUT changing the filter the first time. I drove the car about 100 mi. over a few days, then changed the fluid again, but the second time I changed the filter as well. My thinking was that fresh fluid, being highly "detergent", may dislodge some sludge in the trans--and I wanted the original filter to trap that stuff, not the new filter. So that's why I changed fluid twice. The trans on my 1999 Legacy GT still goes into gear promptly after an overnight sit, even when the temp is near freezing.....

 

While I'm no longer a service advisor, (I worked for a Chevrolet dealer for years; that's why I drive a Subaru) I'll tell you that some advisors will "pacify" a client by telling them "we checked that". Do you really think they removed the filter for inspection? Like an engine oil filter, the external appearance of the transmission filter doesn't tell anybody anything--unless it's leaking.

[tacode]

friendly_jacek and mwatt: Thank you for that reality check. You are probably right - they could not have checked the filter. They did the pressure flush/clean on the transmission, but there was no line item for a replacement filter and I doubt it would have been included with the flush without at least a N/C line item. The was no diagnostic time listed either.

 

The thing that I'm curious about is the way you discribed your situation being better when the temps or car was warmer. Mine is the exact opposite: The colder is the better. If I drive for 20 minutes and stop for 5, it always hesitates longer than first thing in the morning.

 

Also, thanks for the info on the filter and the advise - I'll certainly use it!

[mwatt]

friendly_jacek and mwatt: Thank you for that reality check. You are probably right - they could not have checked the filter. They did the pressure flush/clean on the transmission, but there was no line item for a replacement filter and I doubt it would have been included with the flush without at least a N/C line item. The was no diagnostic time listed either.

 

The thing that I'm curious about is the way you discribed your situation being better when the temps or car was warmer. Mine is the exact opposite: The colder is the better. If I drive for 20 minutes and stop for 5, it always hesitates longer than first thing in the morning.

 

Also, thanks for the info on the filter and the advise - I'll certainly use it!

What I failed to mention in my reply to your post was that I also experienced a long delay before my '99 Legacy's trans would go into gear WHEN WARM also....AND....just like your Forester, the delay issue was never in "R"---my car would engage reverse almost immediately--even before the fluid and filter change. (As I understand it, auto. trans. internal pressures are higher in "R").

 

When I drove the car, then parked and came back 15 minutes later (fluid still warm) I could shift into "D" and just sit there....for 15 to 30 seconds.... but as soon as I revved the engine ever-so-slightly, the transmission would bump into gear. I apologize for not telling you this originally. My transmission would delay into "D" cold OR warm......

 

Now, I can't tell you if the fresh transmission fluid swelled a shrunken seal, or if replacing the filter corrected a restriction in fluid flow, but there is a substantial improvment in forward range engagement time, cold or warm.

 

The only thing that makes me question this kind of fix on YOUR vehicle is that the dealer has already performed a fluid change. I don't want to sound like I'm trying to talk you into replacing your filter, but it's still cheaper to try this than it would be for internal repairs or trans replacement, right?

[friendly_jacek]

If you want to save some money on the AT filter, see the discussion:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25096

 

I personally went to the WIX webside and confirmed the cross-reference. Never tried the WIX filter though.

[skelly]

Does it make any sense to do a BG transmission power flush, and not change the filter? Is it easy to do on a 1997 Impreza Wagon? Thanks

[mwatt]

Does it make any sense to do a BG transmission power flush, and not change the filter? Is it easy to do on a 1997 Impreza Wagon? Thanks

1997 Impreza automatic trans uses a "traditional" internal (inside the trans pan) filter. 1999 model year was the first year the filter was an external "spin-on" type. The internal filter is a clean-able screen, not the paper filter type that requires replacement.

[howards11]

When you change your fluid, give this additive a shot:

 

LUBEGARD

 

 

~Howard

[shortlid]

My Mom has a '03 Legacy GT sedan with the auto-stick 4EAT in it. How offten should I change the ATF and how offten should I change the $25 spin on filter?

[mwatt]

My Mom has a '03 Legacy GT sedan with the auto-stick 4EAT in it. How offten should I change the ATF and how offten should I change the $25 spin on filter?

This is a difficult question to answer because the owner's manual maintenance chart states that the "transmission filter is a maintenance-free component". I do believe, however, that the maintenance chart does call for FLUID changes periodically. If I may offer a suggestion: change the fluid when the maintainance chart in the owner's manual suggests. Perhaps change the FILTER at 100000 miles. However, you must consider severity of usage....frequent operation in heavy traffic, high temperatures, towing, etc. can drastically affect condition of the fluid and the filter.

[Suzam]

I have a question about the delayed "D" engagement...if you move the shifter to 2nd, or even 1st will it clunk into gear?

 

Just curious.

[shortlid]

This is a difficult question to answer because the owner's manual maintenance chart states that the "transmission filter is a maintenance-free component". I do believe, however, that the maintenance chart does call for FLUID changes periodically. If I may offer a suggestion: change the fluid when the maintainance chart in the owner's manual suggests. Perhaps change the FILTER at 100000 miles. However, you must consider severity of usage....frequent operation in heavy traffic, high temperatures, towing, etc. can drastically affect condition of the fluid and the filter.

You think with regular fluid changes the filter will last 100k!!

[tacode]

I have a question about the delayed "D" engagement...if you move the shifter to 2nd, or even 1st will it clunk into gear?

 

No. All forward gears have the same amount of delay. The delay is actually getting into the forward gears. I haven't replaced my fluid and spin-on filter yet, per the previous suggestions; I'm waiting for the weather to get a little warmer! Maybe next week...

 

My local dealer has a bunch in stock - $31.50/ea. He said they usually don't replace these filters. I didn't think to ask why they had so many in stock?!

[rayclark]

Well my wifes Forester just started doing this exact same thing a few weeks ago. Just got it back from the shop. They did a tranny flush but they did not change the filter. It did not help...it still does the same thing. They told me that it was due to the clutch packs being bad. They quoted me $4200 for a refurbished trans and the labor to install. That price seems a little excessive.

 

 

It sounds like a few people have had this problem. I can't believe that a transmission would need to be replaced at 70,000 miles. Of course it is now out of warranty. I may try and talk to Subaru and see if they will do anything...but I doubt it.

 

I am very interested in knowing if changing the filter corrects the problem for you. If it does then I may try that also. I just don't want to spend another $30 some dollars on this if I'm going to have to get another tranny anyways. The dealer already charged me over $100 for the tranny flush and fluid change.

 

Please keep us posted with what you find out.

 

Thanks

 

RC

[mwatt]

Well my wifes Forester just started doing this exact same thing a few weeks ago. Just got it back from the shop. They did a tranny flush but they did not change the filter. It did not help...it still does the same thing. They told me that it was due to the clutch packs being bad. They quoted me $4200 for a refurbished trans and the labor to install. That price seems a little excessive.

 

 

It sounds like a few people have had this problem. I can't believe that a transmission would need to be replaced at 70,000 miles. Of course it is now out of warranty. I may try and talk to Subaru and see if they will do anything...but I doubt it.

 

I am very interested in knowing if changing the filter corrects the problem for you. If it does then I may try that also. I just don't want to spend another $30 some dollars on this if I'm going to have to get another tranny anyways. The dealer already charged me over $100 for the tranny flush and fluid change.

 

Please keep us posted with what you find out.

 

Thanks

 

RC

Can't blame you for not wanting to spend additional 30 bucks, but how else are you going to find out?? Yes, it's a gamble, but it worked on my car....

Remember, I changed my fluid TWICE and the filter once......

[shortlid]

Looks like we got off on this Tranny hesitation tangent maybe the moderator can split the posts for us. This hesitation thing needs discussion and so does the Filter change interval for the newwer 4EAT's??

[arbee524]

Has this issue ever been resolved? I have a 2000 Legacy L that has the same hesitation when shifting into drive. In addition, my wife (it's her car) said that after sitting at a red light after a 40 mile drive (her regular commute), she stepped on the gas and the engine revved? but the car didn't move. She put it in park then back into drive and it was OK. This has happened to her twice. I had the tranny fluid and filter changed over the summer. The hesitation shifting into drive started not long after that (I just found out about it), and the car no moving when stepping on the gas started recently. I check the fluid weekly and it's always been perfect.

 

Thanks for any advice you may have.

[mwatt]

Has this issue ever been resolved? I have a 2000 Legacy L that has the same hesitation when shifting into drive. In addition, my wife (it's her car) said that after sitting at a red light after a 40 mile drive (her regular commute), she stepped on the gas and the engine revved? but the car didn't move. She put it in park then back into drive and it was OK. This has happened to her twice. I had the tranny fluid and filter changed over the summer. The hesitation shifting into drive started not long after that (I just found out about it), and the car no moving when stepping on the gas started recently. I check the fluid weekly and it's always been perfect.

 

Thanks for any advice you may have.

You had the trans fluid and filter changed where? Subaru dealer??

[mwatt]

Looks like we got off on this Tranny hesitation tangent maybe the moderator can split the posts for us. This hesitation thing needs discussion and so does the hesitation of the AWD as a 4EAT Roo gets older!!

I'm not sure I saw a post in this thread regarding "hesitation of the AWD". Isn't everyone posting here referring to the automatic transmission delaying before going into gear, or slipping out of gear when stopped?