Urban Coyote Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I’m looking to purchase my second car sometime soon and have been considering another Subaru. My first Subaru was a ‘91 Loyale 4wd and I absolutely loved the car! Unfortunately it was in rough shape when I got it and I’ve pretty much driven my loyale into the ground. I would like to get another Subaru and was wondering how the quality of the newer models stacks up to the older ones. I’ve read a number of reviews by drivers of the newer model subies and there seem to be a lot of issues! Clutch chatter and malfunction, early break wear and rotor damage, bearings going and leaks of various sorts. This sounds like a lot of maintenance to me. My old Subaru was pretty much check the fluids change the oil and your all set to go. Did I just stumble across a few particularly lemony reviews, or has this become the norm? Also, I was wondering about the maintenance costs of the newer models? Do you guys feel it's a cheap, moderate, or expensive car to maintain? I'd appreciate any imput you could give! Thanks, Urban Coyote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobaroo Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I would like to get another Subaru and was wondering how the quality of the newer models stacks up to the older ones. Not very well. I miss the simplicity of older Subarus. Our '02 Outback has been ok except for the slight piston slap thing (normal, really). Plenty of lemon horror stories out there that you never used to hear about older Subarus. Avoid the late 90's "phase 1" 2.5 cars like the plague unless you're willing to transplant a more reliable 2.2 engine into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Not very well.I miss the simplicity of older Subarus. Our '02 Outback has been ok except for the slight piston slap thing (normal, really). Plenty of lemon horror stories out there that you never used to hear about older Subarus. Avoid the late 90's "phase 1" 2.5 cars like the plague unless you're willing to transplant a more reliable 2.2 engine into it. WOW, I'm just the opposite, my 96 doesn't have half the problems my EA81s and EA82s had. It doesn't overheat, it doesn't burn oil, it has lots more power, parts are more available, and if I wanted, aftermarket performance parts are easily available. I do agree with the caution on the 'phase 1' EJ25s, but you can't go wrong if you get one with the rock solid EJ22 in it. Oh yea, to answer your question. Yes, your second car should be a Subaru, and your third and fouth, fifth, sixth, .......... Scoobaru, if you'd like to trade your 02 OB for my 85 Turbo Wagon, you've got a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortlid Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 My '98 Legacy L wagon with the EJ22 has 140k with only the tourque bind problem with the Automatic Tranny and my heatercore leaking? There is some early 4WD/AWD imports out there. The early '90's 4WD Honda Civic Wagons were good so were the '89-'92 Toyota Corolla 4WD wagons. But both are harder to come by? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Coyote Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 Hmmmm....the 2.5's being crap seems to the the overwhelming feeling that I've been getting from Subaru owners. It's too bad really, because I like the look of almost all the Subarus, and they have a lot of what I want in a second car. I might just have to go out and find another Loyale...11 years old at the youngest though, that's a bit of a deterent. What would you guys suggest as a reliable newer model subie (if any)?? Thanks, this feedback is really important to me as I want to make sure my next car is as reliable as my first. TTYL Urban Coyote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortlid Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Hmmmm....the 2.5's being crap seems to the the overwhelming feeling that I've been getting from Subaru owners. It's too bad really, because I like the look of almost all the Subarus, and they have a lot of what I want in a second car. I might just have to go out and find another Loyale...11 years old at the youngest though, that's a bit of a deterent. What would you guys suggest as a reliable newer model subie (if any)?? Thanks, this feedback is really important to me as I want to make sure my next car is as reliable as my first. TTYL Urban Coyote Like a couple other members say, the EJ22 was in it's last year in my '98 Legacy L. I would get any Subaru with the EJ18 or EJ22 or a '00 or newwer EJ25. Just be aware of the early EJ25's the Phase I EJ25's have internal headgasket problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT95 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 From what I hear, the newer 2.5 are much improved and more reliable. It'll be 10 years before I'm able to buy one of these04 or 05 Subes, so I'll get back with you then and share my opinion. I've got a 95 LSi wagon with the 2.2 and love it. Almost 160,000 miles and the engine is smooth and quiet. Peppy enough--for a four cylinder. A joy to pop the hood and work on too. Find yourself a mid 90s Sube with a 2.2 and you'll be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Coyote Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 Ok, so as long as the engine is 2.2L I'll be doing ok. Does this include a '98 models, or have they started to degrade in that year even in the 2.2L models? What about the clutch on a vehicle with a 2.2L...same story, quality was better overall in these vehicles?? Sorry for all the questions! Cheers, Urban Coyote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unverviking Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 What about the clutch on a vehicle with a 2.2L...same story, quality was better overall in these vehicles?? My 93 Legacy Wagon has 200,850 on it and it has the original clutch. It's still feels fine... Hope I didn't just jinx myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Ok, so as long as the engine is 2.2L I'll be doing ok. Does this include a '98 models, or have they started to degrade in that year even in the 2.2L models? What about the clutch on a vehicle with a 2.2L...same story, quality was better overall in these vehicles?? Sorry for all the questions! Cheers, Urban Coyote I've heard that they revised the EJ22, not sure which year they did that, but I haven't heard anything bad about the newer version of the EJ22 yet. Also the problems seemed to be with the DOHC EJ25s, the SOHC EJ25s seem to have fixed those problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Coyote Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 Ok, last question....honest! What does 'EJ', 'DOHC EJ25s', and 'SOHC EJ25s' stand for? Thanks, Urban Coyote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnuman Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Ok, last question....honest! What does 'EJ', 'DOHC EJ25s', and 'SOHC EJ25s' stand for? Thanks, Urban Coyote EJ is the engine designation. An EJ22 is a 2.2L version, and the 2.5 version has three variants: 2.5 DOHC (Double OverHead Cams) and SOHC (Single OverHead Cam) the 2.2L is a SOHC engine, by the way. The DOHC 2.5's had the internal head gasket problem. Subaru redesigned the head gasket (better materials, IIRC) when the found out about the problem. They also redesigned the engine to a SOHC design, which solved the internal problem, but introduced an external leak problem. This has been addressed with a newer head gasket as well as a "stop-leak" type of goop. A second redesign is in newer vehicles than '02, and the jury is still out on them. They have not been on the road long enough for problems to start showing up in numbers yet. I, for one, hope they got this one right. . . The newer cars have more failures simply because they are more complex, as people demanded more features. More features mean more points of potential failure. It is that simple. A new Subaru will most likely give you many many miles 9or kilometers) of excelent service, so it is still money well spent. For less money, I would go for any early 90's Subaru, or anything with an EJ22 engine (the problem on the EJ25's was the block, and that part of the EJ22 did not change). If you go for something newer, go for anything '03 or later. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rweddy Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 WOW, I'm just the opposite, my 96 doesn't have half the problems my EA81s and EA82s had. It doesn't overheat, it doesn't burn oil, it has lots more power, parts are more available, and if I wanted, aftermarket performance parts are easily available. I do agree with the caution on the 'phase 1' EJ25s, but you can't go wrong if you get one with the rock solid EJ22 in it. I agree totally, I have owned a lot of EA81s & 82s and newer Subaru’s are just as reliable as they used to be. There are more issues because there are more features on the newer models. Have you ever owned a GL-10 subaru? Digital dash issues, turbo issues, overheating, leaks, etc. The 2.5 has a very bad rap here on the board, but I know a few out there that have over 200k with no HG issues. And I personally think the 96-99 outback is one of the best Subaru’s ever. I would not stay away form the 2.5 just be sure to build into the price a HG replacement, then if has an issue you are ready, if not you have $$ in the bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Get a gen 1 Legacy with the EJ22. (89-94?) This car was voted "easiest to work on" or something to that effect by a mechanics' association in 1991. Avoid the 89 though, apparently they had bad luck with transmission bearings. After that, it's all good. I've read articles on these cars that say the EJ22's expected service life with proper maintenance is in the neighborhood of 300-400k. If you take care of a newer soob, it will treat you just as well as the old ones. The loyales were much more prone to things like oil leaks and eating timing belts than the new cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johngenx Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Overall, Subaru's are pretty simple. I think both our 01 models are very simple and have few gadgets or overly-complex systems. Even the AWD systems are simple in comparision to many makes, even the AT version. They seem quite simple to work on and while parts can be pricey, the cars are well made and pretty reliable compared to most everything save for a base Corolla or Echo. No one would buy a 1990 Legacy if it were marketed today. While the newer cars have more stuff that might break, consumers have demanded more features. Makers have simply responded to pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Coyote Posted January 13, 2005 Author Share Posted January 13, 2005 This is all fantastic advice! I would really like to get a newer older model (did that make sense??) My thoughts are a 1998 Legacy 2.2L manual, or even a 2.2L impreza. Any serious downfalls to these years? I would consider an older year, but most of the ones that come onto the market in this area (Nova Scotia) have well over 225K or more on them or starting to see serious rust. I'd like to find something with 175K or less with a good body on it. Cheers, Urban Coyote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smpol19 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 This is all fantastic advice! I would really like to get a newer older model (did that make sense??) My thoughts are a 1998 Legacy 2.2L manual, or even a 2.2L impreza. Any serious downfalls to these years? None that i know of and if you want i 5speed i belive the outbacks up to 98 also had the 2.2 and the Impreza and Impreza Out Back Sports had them untill 01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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