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Subiesport Mag 'old school' Project


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104 replies to this topic

#26 GLCraig

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Posted 20 January 2005 - 11:11 PM

If you're going to go old school, I say go OLD school and find a Gen1 4x Wagon

#27 85Sub4WD

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Posted 20 January 2005 - 11:19 PM

Really guys, an RX with the D/R FT4WD w/ mods would make the best rally car. The drivetrain is VERY flexable (it can lock to give you trad 4WD), and with some mods you would have the power to make it REALLY fast, not to mention it has a rear LSD. WJM really does have a point there. However I would vote sedan b/c of the greater structural stability if you really do run it into something (or someone).
Heck, if my tranny ever dies, I would try to put a FT4WD D/R with mod. gearing so I could keep my ratios because in FWD mode my traction is horrible, and you can't take a turn with it in 4WD mode!!

#28 ShawnW

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 01:17 AM

I would vote for an 84 TurboWagon. They aren't that rare, its the ultimate sleeper, and lots of the RX/Ea82T stuff works on it. Doing a project car that is associated with what most people think of when they think Subaru (A Wagon) should be a goal.

The brat idea is great too.

#29 Ross

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 01:34 AM

I reckon the hatch. If your going to go old, it should be as old as economically possible. A gen 1 would be nice, but probably too rare? They are here anyway.
Anything ea81 style would be great!
whatever, go ea81t - Bulletproof!! (well, almost...)

#30 Myxalplyx

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 01:57 AM

So, members of the USMB, it is in your hands: Which old-school Subaru should we consider for this project and why? Oh, and we want to spend under $1000 for the vehicle. I'll check in on this thread regularly.

Thanks,

Ryan Douthit, Publisher
Subiesport Magazine
http://www.subiesport.com

I would say it's a toss up between two vehicles. Pick a late model RX turbo with FT4WD and manual tranny or Pick a manual tranny AWD XT6. The RX turbo from my understanding has a rally heritage and a good suspension. The XT6 however was the FASTEST SUBARU IN THE 80's ERA hands down.

Although the XT6 is maybe 200-400lbs heavier than an RX turbo (depending on the year), it has gobs more torque and hp than the RX Turbo stock for stock. How do I know...well.....I dyno tested them of course. :brow: My 1989 AUTO AWD XT6 vs my 1988 Manual trannied RX Turbo. Both are stock in these dynos. Look at what you start off with from scratch. 34hp more
Posted Image


And just over 40lb-ft more torque.
Posted Image



This is an automatic XT6 mind you. For rallying, a manual will have more hp/torque stock with more N/A torque low down in those revs that'll get you up and going in a hurry. No waiting for a turbo to spool up. No praying for that little bit of hp/torque to your wheels to keep you ahead of your competition. I'd be willing to bet that an AWD XT6 will hand a FT4WD RX turbo it's booty all day long stock for stock.

Subiesport,
I'll go one up and say that if you want an auto/AWD XT6 to rally, I'd be willing to let you folks drive mine for as long as your project merits. It has an intake/exhaust and pulley on it (for an extra 20hp and 19lb-ft of torque throughtout the powerband). I still have the stock pulley and intake if you need it. The tranny needs some elbow grease (it's a little slow). I'll provide a tranny cooler to help keep things cool. I have a SmallCar shift kit in the garage. Put those things on and have fun with it. Just make sure it's drivable when you return it, whenever you folks are finished with it. I have 4 other cars to drive. If you are interested, PM me. :drunk:

Also, if you guys want to get a little wild with the project, I have various turbo parts you could use as well as nitrous (Zex or NOS) on two other Subarus that you could use. I also have an extra set of cams you can modify to your choosing. All this for free and no hunting. :-p Have fun!

#31 Scoobywagon

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 05:40 AM

I probably don't know what the rulse are regarding what mods may or may not be performed on a the vehicle. However, I've been thinking about something like this for the past couple of days. here's what I've been thinking. EA81 with EA-82 SPFI pistons for their higher compression, delta cam, and EA81T heads, intake, sensors, etc. This would result in a powerplant as bulletproof as they come with less complexity than a turbo system, but still offering good power. I'd stuff this in a Gen-2 hatch (low weight) along with a locking 5 speed and 5-lug conversion. KYB GR2s and you're pretty well set. A setup like this should result in a car with nearly 100hp at the wheels weighing about 2200-2300 lbs. (max). Some quick math tells us that this is ~16.5-17 pounds per horsepower. Not great, but not too shabby. Put a good driver behind the wheel and you could be competitive.

#32 Free Range

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 03:38 PM

Shell: RX or XT4 with RX suspension and xt6 anti-sway's
Motor: 87'-92' EA82T, or carb'd ea82 block with turbo heads (9.5:1 compression)

Trans: 3.70 5 spd hi/lo (RX), or 3.90 5 spd hi/lo.

The 3.90 has far lower gearing, and is, in my opinion, superior in every way except for the locked center diff, which makes it not so hot on dry pavement (I've grenaded 3 front diffs in these transmissions with a hopped up EA82T, this was only because I was running in fwd mode and torque steering everywhere to prevent excessive driveline and rear axle breakage, in 4wd they are really strong. this is the trans the guys down under use for gymkana's.

For TSD on pavement stick with the 3.70 d/r, the selectable locking center diff is nice, but again nowhere near the gearing advantage...

-N

#33 archemitis

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 03:54 PM

well, when i think oldschool, i sure as hell dont think rx or xt6. those things are damn near legacies, as far as im concerned.

its gotta be ea81. if you can swap motors then a HATCH with ea82t, or er27!
if you have to run stock motors, any ea81 with the ea81t.

#34 MorganM

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 04:11 PM

any ea81 with the ea81t.


Cannon Ball Run !!!! :drunk:

#35 Myxalplyx

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 05:15 PM

well, when i think oldschool, i sure as hell dont think rx or xt6. those things are damn near legacies, as far as im concerned.

its gotta be ea81. if you can swap motors then a HATCH with ea82t, or er27!
if you have to run stock motors, any ea81 with the ea81t.


Why stop there? The EA81 is damn near EA82s and XT6s right? Go back to the Subaru 360 or 1600s. Now THAT'S old school. :lol:

#36 carfreak85

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 06:06 PM

My vote is EA81 hatch first, XT6 second.

#37 Numbchux

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 08:55 PM

too heavy and too rare.

RX all the way.


XT6 more rare than the RX??? um......NO, well, not out here anyway

#38 archemitis

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 10:00 PM

My vote is EA81 hatch first, XT6 second.


why not have the best of both worlds, i just did this for about 500 bucks total investment. :brow: well, that and alot of sick days from work.

on the rx vs xt6 stuff... i have bought two xt6s in the last four months, and one was 100 bucks, and the other was only marginaly more expensive, with no rust.

if its any 80s subaru, id say XT6. put 2.5 inches of exhaust on there, and watch the competition shrink away in fear of the big beast! =]

#39 mudrat79

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 10:22 PM

Hey Ryan....

Having driven Both a EA-81T Wagon with 5 speed swap, and An RX Sedan with Carbed Block and 5 speed Swap, I'd have to Vote RX Sedan.....I have one First Place Open Class plaquard Under My personal Car's Belt....In Rally Cross....

It has a Fairly light chassis, AS well as a Bad A** Power Plant.....The Engine Bolted up to a 5 speed 3:90 Hi-Lo is Like a Rocket on Wheels......

If you want True Old School , I'd say Do an EA-81T with 5speed Hi-Lo.....I've built 2 of these for off-Road USe and They do very well.....even with larger than Stock tires.....

Keep it low to the ground with Factory sized rubber, and It will be a good screamer as well......

If you wanna Talk Shop call me , the # is in My Sig......

P.S. I volunteer Myself as Co-Driver...... :grin: :eek:

John in Eugene.......

#40 ezapar

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 10:28 PM

I do know that hatchback is synonomous with oversteer. Out of all the Soobs I've ever driven, the hatchbacks are the worst handling in the dirt at speed.
Ea81s have a crappy suspension for the likes or Rally. Period.
RX stands for Rally Experimental. Subaru must have been on to something.
I've personally seen the car in the attachment below in action. With a decent driver, it could have been the shnit.

#41 subarubrat

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 10:33 PM

Go for the RX, swap in the ER27 from the XT6 and drop in WRX front struts and coil overs in the rear.

#42 archemitis

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 10:36 PM

Go for the RX, swap in the ER27 from the XT6 and drop in WRX front struts and coil overs in the rear.


and boost it! =]

#43 Dr. RX

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 10:58 AM

Boy, how did I miss this one. If you need another wrench, with some racing experience, I'll be there.

So why hasn't ricochet replied to any of this, I'd like to here his feedback on our suggestions. I'd also like to know what he has in mind as "rally preped'.

#44 richierich

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 12:59 PM

I can get my hands on my old turbo coupe ea81 . It is pretty nice shape, showing 118k on the odo. I have been hesitant to buy it since I already have one that is nicer and we have the turbo BRAT and a parts car. Here are some pics of it.


http://www.angelfire...ea81Turbo2.html

#45 ricochet

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 01:15 PM

I can get my hands on my old turbo coupe ea81 . It is pretty nice shape, showing 118k on the odo. I have been hesitant to buy it since I already have one that is nicer and we have the turbo BRAT and a parts car. Here are some pics of it.


We're pretty flexible as to fitting our definition of "old subaru" though I think that coupe would be about perfect. We'd even fit into the historic class IIRC.

What I'd *really* like (aside from all the wonderful mutant build suggestions) is to have a car that can be picked up, tinkered with only slightly and then manage to run the No Alibi TSD (2-day) gravel rally without getting stranded. As far as story development, this isn't going to be one based on fabrication, or even performance, but taking a and older car and doing something fun with it--but mostly, keeping it accessible (well, at least at the beginning)...

For those that remember, Sport Compact Car Mag ran a story about 6 years ago on rallying a Datsun 510 in the Ramada Express. It involved barely making it in one piece and at one point taking "the worlds largest hammer" and whacking the drive axel so they could complete the event. That's the story we're looking to make ourselves.

Ryan

#46 mudrat79

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 01:29 PM

I Vote Richie's Coupe then.....

Get it Cheap, Re-build the Engine Using a Carb Block under the Turbo Heads......Use an EA-82 Turbo To be sure you get water and oil Cooling , Stuff a 4 speed Hi-Lo in it , Custom Exhaust, Stock Boost, and You've got one Mean little Sleeper........

It Will Rally Very well, as well as Being very reliable......And it's pretty Light to start with......:headbang:

I still Volunteer Myself For Co-Pilot....:)

#47 XSNRG

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 02:53 PM

I do know that hatchback is synonomous with oversteer. Out of all the Soobs I've ever driven, the hatchbacks are the worst handling in the dirt at speed.
Ea81s have a crappy suspension for the likes or Rally. Period.
RX stands for Rally Experimental. Subaru must have been on to something.
I've personally seen the car in the attachment below in action. With a decent driver, it could have been the shnit.


I agree, the EA81 would be a pain to get handling for dirt/gravel, a much more important factor than power, which is also a dis-advantage in the EA81.

Sean's old RX is available for minimal $$$ I have a lot of related parts too and will donate some expertise as well.

Zap, the car in the picture, is that the one that rolled? I think he has a coupe now??? not sure. I would like to see that car.

#48 XSNRG

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 03:02 PM

I do have a complete '87.5 RX Coupe for sale. There are a couple people in line for it but it may be available. You can drive it home.

I also have a EA81T coupe I might sell if you decide to go that route and don't buy Richies.

#49 Dr. RX

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 06:07 PM

What I'd *really* like (aside from all the wonderful mutant build suggestions) is to have a car that can be picked up, tinkered with only slightly and then manage to run the No Alibi TSD (2-day) gravel rally without getting stranded.
Ryan

Ryan, unless you are planning to go over a turbo with a fine tooth comb, I'd suggest that you run a carburated engine. A turbo engine (EA81 or EA82) is complicated and too many things can and usually do go wrong with it. This is really tough, because like Zap said, the EA81 series are not known for their great handling, the EA82s are better, but are prone to overheating. An EA82 sedan would probably be best, and probably the cheapest to pick up. The first thing I would do would be to flush the cooling system and replace the single row radiator with a twin row. That car should get you through the rally, not a contender, but will get you through. Now, if you want a fast car too, you only have one option, and that is a turbo. Now the fun begins, that first thing I'd do would be to flush the engine and twin row radiator like the carb'd car, but then I'd replace every hose, with silicon hose if possible. I'd hank the A/C, that has been a problem for me with overheating the engine on a hot day. If you go with a turbo car, the best choice would be one of the RXs, coupe or sedan, but these would be hard to find at your budget of $1000. You might be able to find GL-10 turbo sedan in that price range, but you'll have to replace the air suspension. Like I've said, if you need any wrenching help, let me know. If my garage were completed, I'd offer it, but it probably won't be done until April.

#50 Ross

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 06:13 PM

I agree, the EA81 would be a pain to get handling for dirt/gravel, a much more important factor than power, which is also a dis-advantage in the EA81.


I have never had a prob with how mine handles on high speed gravel runs - they require a different driving style to the ea82s, but i don't feel they are any slower through the corners. (I'm comparing wagons here, i havent driven the 2 doors).




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