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Been There Done It ...(Rubicon Report)
Posted 25 August 2003 - 09:42 PM
Posted 25 August 2003 - 09:54 PM
So, to re-iterate my point, if you are talking about the Pirates of the Rubicon, you are talking about a very small and select group of individuals. If you are talking about board members of pirate4x4.com, then you are talking about something entirely different, as they absolutely are not one and the same.
I think there are quite a few things that EVERYONE needs to learn about fully modifying a vehicle.
#1. Most of the members of pirate that post on a regular basis have hand built a lot of stuff on their rigs. They've fabbed the suspensions, the steering, all of it. Yes, they've used parts from different vendors along the way. Hell, you bought the lift from pkdavis, did you not (this excludes mudrat, et al who did their own lifts)? However, not everyone has the same access to certain tools that other do. Not everyone has a lathe or whatever sitting around.
#2. Have you ever actually read the board and just not paid much attention to the BS that goes on? Certainly, there is plenty of flaming that goes on, however, there is a TON of tech, and there sure are a helluva lot of great guys on that board. And I'd venture to say that a lot of the people on that board are responsible for actually trying to keep the Con and many other established trails in Cali open. Read the Rubicon Trail Talk forum sometime and you'll see what I mean.
I realize why you guys did it, and you (I'm sure) knew you'd catch flack, hell, it happens on your home turf all the time, does it not? Maybe you didn't do all 26 miles, but hell, you attempted it, and now know some weak points on your rigs.
Oh, and another point, sure there are plenty of vehicles that are modified that are no longer much of the OEM manufacturer, but at some point, that is necessary. Just like mudrat making a 12 inch lift and wanting bigger tires, the parts aren't always strong enough and you can do one of two things:
Get bigger axles, etc. or keep breaking and wasting your time fixing it.
Which would you rather do? I know if someone (like Bobby Long and his magical process) made a strong halfshaft, you'd probably jump right on it, correct? Or if someone made different gearsets. It's the same when someone puts a bigger axle under their vehicle or simply put a locker in. It's modifying the vehicle to do more than it already does.
All of us need to quit bickering like a bunch of children. It's doing no one any good, and we all look stupid arguing about this.
And yes, you did get some haters on the board, but you also got some great support, and I'll post the links up as soon as I get them.
Posted 25 August 2003 - 09:57 PM
Here is an EXCELLENT post by Zap.
Here is one that is not so great. However, there is some support, but at the same time there are some anti-Sub people.
Posted 25 August 2003 - 10:04 PM
One of the threads (the one brian started) in Rubicon Trail Talk was closed there was so much fighting on it.
The wheeling community as a whole does not need in-fighting and board wars. Let's just all try and be cool with one another, sit back, and chill.
Posted 25 August 2003 - 11:06 PM
Granted the Rubicon doesn't look easy, but the pics look like child's play to some of the runs in the Jeep Safari. Even just dustin' down there..you SHOULD have a winch. There is sugar sand down there, it's easy to stuck in too. Ain't that right Baby?
I know some people that crawl down there that carry extra tires along with water and food, incase those rocks are hot. Also if it happens to rain the rocks are slicker than ice and the sugar sand turns to quick sand.
No, I never drove the trails, but like I said it was my playground, so I took it on foot.
Posted 26 August 2003 - 01:12 AM
Originally posted by TheSubaruJunkie
DangerRanger, consider yourself welcome as long as you respect the members of this board. This IS NOT the Pirate4x4 board, and we do not tollerate the type of attitude the members of the Pirate4x4 board promote.
sub junkie: looks like some your own members need to be reminded of this rule.
Originally posted by MsPushrod The GUY I got angery with was Danger RANGER,FUNNY I have a 74 highboy,most Ford 4x4 guys are cool sorry guys
Ya know, i don't even know why i bothered. what EXACTLY did i say that pissed you off?
I don't think you get it. The original guys who CAME to the pirate board asking for help/info, i gave them the benefit of the doubt and i supported their idea. I even defended them against the normal a$$hat attitude that is spreading like wildfire. read for yourself if you havn't already.
If you still feel the way you do, whatever. The con is my backyard and you won't get a friendly wave from me on the trail. I'm done.
Posted 26 August 2003 - 01:16 AM
I am just as far from the con. I would like to make a successful run through Fordyce before i do though.
Posted 26 August 2003 - 12:25 PM
I am curious......?
1.) How much fab work have you ever done....?
2.) How much if any have you ever done to your own ride....?
3.) how much are you into your Ride for in $$$$$$$$$....?
I am the Owner of the Hatch Sporting the 12 inch Lift......
I along with the Help of Lumpycam and a few of My local Buds started fab work on this project about 4 weeks before the Rubicon trip.......
Here is a fairly complete list of what we did to my Ride in that 4 week time...
1.) Took a 97 2.2 motor and AWD Automatic tranny out of a Legacy Wagon and fit it along with it's wiring into a car that was 11 yrs older......and had to be completely re-wired to accomodate the thing.....
2.) We hand built the entire 12 inch lift, along with all mounts for suspension. I had quite a bit of travel out of my fully independant drive train.
3.) We fabbed mounts and stuffed a Nissan Transfer Case behind the AWD Auto trans....
4.) We had to figure out how to lock the AWD system in the Trans to allow the rear Drive shaft to be ran full time So we had Locked power to the rear and transfer case....
5.) We hand built 2 of 3 drivelines
6.) We Fabbed a differential into the front to run front axles
7.) We had to fab All steering components, as Nobody has ever stretched a Roo to 12 inches of Lift....
8.)We had to Completely re-do the rear Drivetrain and Built everything to hang the rear Off of......
Which brings me to your Pic of my rear diff hanger.......?
I built all of this ride on 1500.00 worth of $$$$ 1000.00 of that went into getting the Motor and tranny.....It was bought in L.A. and hauled home on a trailer so for 700.00 plus fuel I had a 80,000 mile 2.2 and all its hardware
Therefore I have about 500.00 into the Fab work done on the entire car....
That hanger is weak I'm the first to admit it.....We new it was inadequit before I eer pulled my ride out of the shop for te firt time 2 days before I put it on the trailer to head for the Con.....
This car had not seen a trail let alone a trail with boulders in it........
But here is the Final Line........I Being a fabricator By trade new the Weak links in my ride, I went prepaired for my breakage if any plus I brought enough odds and ends to repair other rigs if needed.......
I finally twisted that " GETTO" hanger just before Walkers hill....., and it caused me to grenade a rear axle cup....No biggy we had several extras.... I had my ride ready in about 1/2 an hr......
I then powered up Walkers Hill on just the welded Rear end of my car cause half way up I Realized I had also sheared a inner stub axle on my front LSD diff......down below Walkers
I did this in front of the Guy who had the Blown up Cruiser With DOA transfer case......Along with all the other Guys camped out with him....
I am not here to make waves , Piss on anyones Head , Or Swing My Man Meat around.......
I am here to say I took a Rig that hadn't been trail tested at all to a Trail known to Kick a rigs rump roast, and I drove in and Back out under My Own Power With absolutely No help from anyone other than my Own group of Subi's
My Only Real carnage was that 'GETTO" bar/ Diff hanger at the rear......I new I needed it to be beefier , but ran out of time before the run.....
As E-Zap already said......We took 3 completely differently built Subi's in , and All 3 came out under their own Power, None of which had ever been anywhere near this trail......
We learned lots, Saw More, and will be back again in our Subaru's in a year or 2 ........
Many thanks To Robbs And his Crew,
Subaru of America For the welders,
and Premier For giving the Break on the Welders.......
Later all, I gots ta Go fix my 'GETTO" parts now........
John and Crew In Oregon.......:moon:
Posted 26 August 2003 - 01:41 PM
The USMB has always been a very open and friendly environment where even the most novice Subaru convert can ask a question and rest sure that the answers to their thread will be helpfull and accurate. Where if any inacuracies in that post are spoted; a wiser member will respectfully interject a better suggestion.
Isnt it about time to cap off this thread? I think just about everyone has spouted off their opinion here who wanted to. Finger pointing and pissing contests just spiral into some of the pointless posting whitnessed in this thread.
Posted 26 August 2003 - 01:54 PM
Posted 26 August 2003 - 02:04 PM
Being a moderator on several persistant IRC channels for years I quickly "stamp out" little fires before the become rampant flame festivals.
Thankfully on these boards you can just lock a thread instead of just having to ban people. If people from the threads feel the need to carry on they can do it in a more appropriate forum like the Offtopic forum.
But thats just my 2 cents here.. I'm not a Moderator here
Posted 26 August 2003 - 04:09 PM
What I originally saw was a comment made at the wrong group of people, and then defense of that by several others. And then that wasn't for around 15 different replies.
Now, if there was an invasion, it would have already happened. There are 20,000 plus members on pirate. We have what? 4000? Quite a sizeable following, but still, we're outnumbered 4 - 1.
3 people does not an invasion make. They are simply expressing certain opinions here, and mostly in defense. There are also a few clarifications in there also.
Posted 26 August 2003 - 04:28 PM
Morgan, which IRC servers do you frequent. I am the SOP for #subaru on Dal.net and owner as well. Also a AOP for #alaska on dal.net. Being a moderator or op is not an easy job, and it can be tricky sometimes to determine when or how to take action.
Anyway, we are off-topic, and going nowhere.. fast. Where are the rest of the pix from this trip. The most pictures ive seen have been taken by Pirate4x4 members.
Posted 26 August 2003 - 05:17 PM
Mudrat - To answer your questions
1 - Since I have an FJ40, there hasn't been a lot of Fab work needed, since the Landcruiser truly is a capable vehicle, stock. And I did get mine for $1500. Some rust in the Quarters. Hard top 72, 3spd.
Most of the fab that has needed welding has been performed by two people Gary Kardum (www.mudrak.com) and Butch Lewis (www.butchbuilt.com) as Gary is the Spring Over king and Butch is the Bumper guy.
I have torn apart and rebuilt my rear axle twice, installed my noslip locker 3 times, installed ARB front, converted to Chevy rear discs, converted to later brake master, swapped intake / exhaust, carb, drivelines, complete changeout from drum to disc up front. Installed Duall Batts, GM HEI, Radiator, Swapped in 2f for old F, misc body parts, soft top, etc... electrical, I just refuse to do the welding, as I feel that's my own personal limitation.
Including all broken parts, wasted springs, retubed driveshafts, I'm into mine for right at $10,000. Maybe $12,000. Most of it is hanging below the frame. A lot of it is labor. Maybe I'm fortunate in that I can pay some one to do that work. But there are other jobs that I will do myself (like this weekend where we're pulling the motor).
My biggest shock is that it seemed that your ride was slapped together. You knew it was inadequate, yet you took it out on the country's toughest trail. It's an arrogance that you think you're better than the trail.
Guys on the Pirate board were offering you advice and help and knowledge and guidance. I can understand not wanting a crowd around you when you went through, but I think rather than spending the time on creating 12" of lift, you could have maybe gotten the vehicle better prepared? dunno.
When you guys come back, and I'm sure you will, prepare yourself to run the whole trail, have the kinks worked out long before you come, and have some fun.
The final thought on this is that Rubicon has become a rock garden. And nowadays, people need to crawl over them, unless you are light enough to use momentum to launch over the rocks, which breaks stuff. If you can get a Jeep, Bronco, or Land Cruiser, or Mini to carry spares for you, you guys will stay light enough to skate over the rocks, but you guys probably were carrying several hundred pounds of spares that you weren't counting on. And when you carry those spares, you get heavy. And when you get heavy, you have to slow down. So find a way to crawl.
Posted 26 August 2003 - 05:31 PM
Who cares what anyone thinks...
You guys went did it and made it home, so you didn't do all 30 miles. Did you do what you wanted, sounds like you did.
I think its pretty cool that you guys went and used a vehicle is taken for granted most of the time.
So someone else has a more money and more truck and more this and more that. Glad to hear you made it and can't wait to see the pics, and the video if Eric will let me buy one.
Congrats......Good job......atta boy........Cheers.....who cares what those others have to say.
Posted 26 August 2003 - 05:36 PM
Mudrat (John) nice lil invention of the 12 inch lift But... umm... no BEAST @ the rubicon??
Posted 26 August 2003 - 06:13 PM
Woody. You have put more into your truck than most have put into their house. The fact that you have more money than us does not mean your vehicle is better than ours. For you to come here, post a picture of John's work and call it "booty fabbed" and then ADMIT that you pay other people to build your car... well.... that makes you seem like a very large *******. You're not even worthy to STAND next to John's car, let alone speak about its fabrication.
John spent 4 weeks of blood, sweat and tears. Fabricating, and doing things to his subaru that NOBODY HAS EVER DONE BEFORE! And you have the audacity to come here and try to degrade him for that. Who the hell do you think you are. Im not sure if you can tell... but im alittle pissed right now. Woody, you have no business even opening your mouth to voice an opinion. You think your badass cause you can pull an engine by yourself. That's nothing. Thats like brushing your teeth compared to what this group accomplished.
As far as im concerned, woody... your a nobody, a nothing. You talk the talk, but you pay people to walk the walk.
Oh, and dont think im hiding behind my computer. My location is listed next to my name, and if you feel the need to want to speak to me face to face... look for the only lifted Subaru Wagon in Sacramento.
'nuff said. Ive vented. Should have been private, but that last statement by woody really did it.
Posted 26 August 2003 - 06:34 PM
I don't have the tools or resources to build a bumper the way I want, or get it to turn out looking the way I want. I don't have the skill set to properly cut and turn an axle housing and weld the spring pads on in correct alignment, so that the vehicle is safe going down the highway (as my vehicle IS a daily driver), that is wrong, or weak, or whatever, fine.
If you think his work is clean, or good, or something you'd get in and drive your family in, then great, more power to you. But I wouldn't want it 100 ft near me on the street or on the trail. Fortunately, when they did have problems people were able to get by them. They went through during the week, and it was August. Just imagine if it was a Saturday. Just imagine if they had broke on Cadillac Hill on 4th of July. It could have gotten ugly.
These Subarus aren't yet ready for the Rubicon. I have no doubt that Qman, Mudrat and others can get them there, but going, from their words of trails that they rate as a "3" to a trail they would rate as a "9" is too much of a jump. You need to find a middle trail, work on that and then come back down. I think that's one of the key points that everyone is missing here. I guess no matter how hard I try, I'm not conveying it, so I'll stop trying.
Posted 26 August 2003 - 06:45 PM
Posted 26 August 2003 - 06:46 PM
Posted 26 August 2003 - 07:03 PM
Sub Junkie -- If you've only put 10K in your house - well --- never mind.
Posted 26 August 2003 - 07:06 PM
now shove off....
Posted 26 August 2003 - 07:29 PM
Your $12,000 vehicle made it to walker hill in 90minutes. Their $4000 subaru's made it as well. maybe not as fast, but they still did it. And they will be back to do it again... and again, and again. And nothing you, or anybody with your attitude, can say to stop us. No matter how "booty fabbed" our rigs are.
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