77 replies to this topic

[subieman]

It's hard to get the timing right the very first time. Keep trying untill she starts up. It took me a few tries on my first timing belt replacement. Also make sure none of the tabs on your crank gear are broken off. There should be 6. I broke one off once and the timing sensor just wont work with 5 tabs. That took me a month to figure out. I had to buy a Loyale so I could get to work. haha

Good Luck

[Cougar]

Since you moved the crank and the cams seperately you could be 180 degrees out on the distributor. You should check how things line up with number 1 piston at TDC on the compression stroke. I assume your spark is still good.

[Tolerance02]

If the stripes on the belt are lined up with the marks on the pully's and the belt is placed in the right direction the timin must be correct. A small difference like 1/2 tooth is always possible but is no problem.
It happens that, after a longer time of inactivity, the engine cranks as if there is no compression. I guess this is because of low oil pressure in the hydrolic lifters. In that case you need a very strong battery or a good jump starter (donor car) so the engine can crank long anough to fill up the lifters. While starting you kan hear the cranking sound change while the cylinders one by one are making compression.

Just a tought.

Urban.

[Tolerance02]

One more thing. Did you pay attention to the cam pullys? There is a difference between left and right. They are markt with L resp. R.
The left one hase cams on the back for the cam censor by some Legacy's.

Urban.

[1 Lucky Texan]

Where's the crank angle sensor on this engine? Could it be damaged/disconnected?
I'd confirm spark/fuel again.

Did you try the trick with a strip of paper at the exhaust to see if it gets sucked in when cranking the off-timed engine? Maybe it would show you an out-of-time indication now if you think the timing is drastically out of sync. Probably need a helper to crank the engine though.

Hope you get it running soon.

Carl
1 Lucky Texan

[Legacy777]

Did you TDC the #1 cylinder when you were lining the crank back up with the oil pump gear?

[intrigueing]

The crank has to be at 12'Oclock (and yes there is a mark below the crank sensor) but make sure you are using the right crank mark, you should use the mark on the back of the crank, there is a line on one of the notchy teeth (not gear teeth) on the back of the gear. Maybe someone can get you a picture.

http://www.endwrench...ngineRepair.pdf

has a picture, but it is not too clear. We are crossing our fingers for ya!

[intrigueing]

http://www.endwrench...tReplaceW01.pdf

[Lorryb]

Can anyone confirm this? I did snap off one of the tabs when removing the gear!

Originally posted by subieman
It's hard to get the timing right the very first time. Keep trying untill she starts up. It took me a few tries on my first timing belt replacement. Also make sure none of the tabs on your crank gear are broken off. There should be 6. I broke one off once and the timing sensor just wont work with 5 tabs. That took me a month to figure out. I had to buy a Loyale so I could get to work. haha

Good Luck

[Lorryb]

I don't know! How do I make sure that #1 is TDC? I just put the crank gear back on and rotated until the timing mark match the mark on the oil pump housing.
First thing I'm gonna check is the cam pulleys, when I started out I had them set out so I would replace them correctly, but in all my mucking about I could have easily have switched them. I figure I have a 50% chance of them being on wrong!

Originally posted by Legacy777
Did you TDC the #1 cylinder when you were lining the crank back up with the oil pump gear?

[Cougar]

Well if you broke one of the timing tabs off it sounds like you'll need a new gear I'm sorry to say.

Having the link to the Endwrench article should steer you right as far as setting everything up.

Sorry for my misinfomation on checking the distributor. I need to keep reminding myself there is newer technology in these engines.

[Lorryb]

Cam pulleys are on correctly, sounds like the broken tab on the oil pump/crank gear is the culprit.

[subieman]

Lorryb, here is a picture to explain myself...

[intrigueing]

Did you set the crank timing with the line on the tab, or was that the one that broke off? I believe the crank position sensor gets its signal off the tabs, so if one is broken - it will throw the crank position sensor off.

[subieman]

yes thats what I'm trying to tell Lorryb. Without that tab the motor wont even try to run. Yes and make sure Lorryb your using the timing mark thats on the tab and NOT the arrow on the front of the gear.

[1 Lucky Texan]

A few posts up LorryB confirmed that a tab was broken off.

Even if there are other confusing issues, it won't start now.

I doubt a reliable fix for the existing gear is possible. So, over on marketplace or at a local junkyard ,a used one might be found. Otherwise, a new one will need to be purchased.

too bad - but I think you're close!

Also, it probably isn't a problem, but can any of you other guys explain about the tenisoner? Is it gonna 'pump up' like a hydraulic lifter? If so, what keeps up from being to loose when the engines starts?


Carl
1 Lucky Texan

[Tolerance02]

If the tensioner is bad the 'piston' can be pushed in by hand easy. There is no pump up, it works independant almost like a strut. There is a coil spring inside the cylinder that pushes the tensioner roller toward the belt, a system inside with oil and very small canals and/or valves makes that it kan' not be pushed back in a short time.
In the original parts catalog this cylider formed peace mounted with two bolts is actually called 'adjuster' the roller is called 'tensioner'.
I only once had a bad adjuster, it leacked oil and could be pushed in by hand about 1/4 inch. Nothing wrong, only a short rattle by cold start in the morning.

[Lorryb]

Carl, I lucked out, the dealer has one in stock, gonna pick it up tomorrow and put it all back together again on Saturday. Who'd a thunk a little tab like that was important. I thought it was a handy thing to pry on to get the gear off! It should really be noted somewhere (don't know where) that those tabs are important and not to pry on them when trying to remove the gear. I had a tough of a time getting the gear off 'cause the key was bitched.
Lorry

[Legacy777]

yup.....those teeth are very important

[subieman]

Glad we have got this problem solved! I hope the next post is " SHE RUNS"!!!

Later

[Lorryb]

SHE RUNS!!!
Thanks to all the help I got from everybody here at USMB, my Legacy is up and running. It kinda threw a scare into me though, at first go I spun it for about 30 seconds or so and no go. Pulled a plug and could see no fuel was getting there, so I scratched my head for a while and then thought maybe the injectors had just dried out or something and it just needed a longer spin. Sure enough after about 45 seconds more of spinning, a few coughs and away she went. Big puffs of white smoke coming out to the exhaust pipe. Oh! Oh! So I took it for a quick spin just to see if it would continue belching smoke but it cleared up right away. I vaguely remember somebody once saying that kind of thing can happen with a Subie 'cause of the horiz. opposed engine design. At any rate it seems to be running well now. Thanks again for everybodies' help and input.
Lorry

[Tolerance02]

Great!!!

[Cougar]

Your welcome for the help Lorryb. Thanks for the feedback on this. Knowing what fixes the problem helps us learn also.

As the saying goes: "Drive On".

[1 Lucky Texan]

You deserve a big round of APPLAUSE!!!

I wish I had your dedication, I woulda' let the dealer have it I think. Though there was a time in my life when I HAD to fix the '48 Willys, the '51 Chevy(that thing ATE generators!), the '78 Civic that sucked a valve in cylender #2, the '64 Ramb - well- other car issues in my life) 'cause of no money but I guess I've gotten lazy and stiff as I've gotten older.

Also, I think this thread will be helpful for folks in the future too. I learned a lot. You have helped unknown future Sube owners and they OWE YOU MAN!

good job

Carl
1 Lucky Texan

[incognito]

yeh, my 1990 Loyale got a "screw loose" one time, the screw that holds the rotor on properly fell out. Caused the timing to go out of whack, or somethin? took me like 5 months to find

Screw loose, broken tooth, anyway, I feel ya LorryB. Good job.