Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Help! Emergency! 91 Legacy Stranded (Still)


  • Please log in to reply
77 replies to this topic

#51 subieman

subieman

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,422 posts
  • Sparks, NV

Posted 04 September 2003 - 12:22 AM

It's hard to get the timing right the very first time. Keep trying untill she starts up. It took me a few tries on my first timing belt replacement. Also make sure none of the tabs on your crank gear are broken off. There should be 6. I broke one off once and the timing sensor just wont work with 5 tabs. That took me a month to figure out. I had to buy a Loyale so I could get to work. haha

Good Luck
:drunk:

#52 Cougar

Cougar

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 6,340 posts
  • Anchorage

Posted 04 September 2003 - 01:40 AM

Since you moved the crank and the cams seperately you could be 180 degrees out on the distributor. You should check how things line up with number 1 piston at TDC on the compression stroke. I assume your spark is still good.

#53 Tolerance02

Tolerance02

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 397 posts
  • Flanders

Posted 04 September 2003 - 01:48 AM

If the stripes on the belt are lined up with the marks on the pully's and the belt is placed in the right direction the timin must be correct. A small difference like 1/2 tooth is always possible but is no problem.
It happens that, after a longer time of inactivity, the engine cranks as if there is no compression. I guess this is because of low oil pressure in the hydrolic lifters. In that case you need a very strong battery or a good jump starter (donor car) so the engine can crank long anough to fill up the lifters. While starting you kan hear the cranking sound change while the cylinders one by one are making compression.

Just a tought.

Urban.

#54 Tolerance02

Tolerance02

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 397 posts
  • Flanders

Posted 04 September 2003 - 01:53 AM

One more thing. Did you pay attention to the cam pullys? There is a difference between left and right. They are markt with L resp. R.
The left one hase cams on the back for the cam censor by some Legacy's.

Urban.

#55 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 4,941 posts
  • Texas

Posted 04 September 2003 - 06:17 AM

Where's the crank angle sensor on this engine? Could it be damaged/disconnected?
I'd confirm spark/fuel again.

Did you try the trick with a strip of paper at the exhaust to see if it gets sucked in when cranking the off-timed engine? Maybe it would show you an out-of-time indication now if you think the timing is drastically out of sync. Probably need a helper to crank the engine though.

Hope you get it running soon.

Carl
1 Lucky Texan

#56 Legacy777

Legacy777

    Moderator

  • Moderator
  • 12,639 posts
  • Houston, Tx

Posted 04 September 2003 - 07:53 AM

Did you TDC the #1 cylinder when you were lining the crank back up with the oil pump gear?

#57 intrigueing

intrigueing

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 115 posts
  • IL

Posted 04 September 2003 - 08:05 AM

The crank has to be at 12'Oclock (and yes there is a mark below the crank sensor) but make sure you are using the right crank mark, you should use the mark on the back of the crank, there is a line on one of the notchy teeth (not gear teeth) on the back of the gear. Maybe someone can get you a picture.

http://www.endwrench...ngineRepair.pdf

has a picture, but it is not too clear. We are crossing our fingers for ya!

#58 intrigueing

intrigueing

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 115 posts
  • IL

Posted 04 September 2003 - 08:06 AM

http://www.endwrench...tReplaceW01.pdf

#59 Lorryb

Lorryb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 70 posts
  • Manitoba

Posted 04 September 2003 - 10:35 AM

Can anyone confirm this? I did snap off one of the tabs when removing the gear!

Originally posted by subieman
It's hard to get the timing right the very first time. Keep trying untill she starts up. It took me a few tries on my first timing belt replacement. Also make sure none of the tabs on your crank gear are broken off. There should be 6. I broke one off once and the timing sensor just wont work with 5 tabs. That took me a month to figure out. I had to buy a Loyale so I could get to work. haha

Good Luck
:drunk:



#60 Lorryb

Lorryb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 70 posts
  • Manitoba

Posted 04 September 2003 - 10:37 AM

I don't know! How do I make sure that #1 is TDC? I just put the crank gear back on and rotated until the timing mark match the mark on the oil pump housing.
First thing I'm gonna check is the cam pulleys, when I started out I had them set out so I would replace them correctly, but in all my mucking about I could have easily have switched them. I figure I have a 50% chance of them being on wrong!

Originally posted by Legacy777
Did you TDC the #1 cylinder when you were lining the crank back up with the oil pump gear?



#61 Cougar

Cougar

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 6,340 posts
  • Anchorage

Posted 04 September 2003 - 10:56 AM

Well if you broke one of the timing tabs off it sounds like you'll need a new gear I'm sorry to say.

Having the link to the Endwrench article should steer you right as far as setting everything up.

Sorry for my misinfomation on checking the distributor. I need to keep reminding myself there is newer technology in these engines.

#62 Lorryb

Lorryb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 70 posts
  • Manitoba

Posted 04 September 2003 - 11:19 AM

Cam pulleys are on correctly, sounds like the broken tab on the oil pump/crank gear is the culprit.

#63 subieman

subieman

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,422 posts
  • Sparks, NV

Posted 04 September 2003 - 11:45 AM

Lorryb, here is a picture to explain myself...

Posted Image

#64 intrigueing

intrigueing

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 115 posts
  • IL

Posted 04 September 2003 - 11:52 AM

Did you set the crank timing with the line on the tab, or was that the one that broke off? I believe the crank position sensor gets its signal off the tabs, so if one is broken - it will throw the crank position sensor off.

#65 subieman

subieman

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,422 posts
  • Sparks, NV

Posted 04 September 2003 - 11:56 AM

yes thats what I'm trying to tell Lorryb. Without that tab the motor wont even try to run. Yes and make sure Lorryb your using the timing mark thats on the tab and NOT the arrow on the front of the gear.

#66 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 4,941 posts
  • Texas

Posted 04 September 2003 - 12:45 PM

A few posts up LorryB confirmed that a tab was broken off.

Even if there are other confusing issues, it won't start now.

I doubt a reliable fix for the existing gear is possible. So, over on marketplace or at a local junkyard ,a used one might be found. Otherwise, a new one will need to be purchased.

too bad - but I think you're close!

Also, it probably isn't a problem, but can any of you other guys explain about the tenisoner? Is it gonna 'pump up' like a hydraulic lifter? If so, what keeps up from being to loose when the engines starts?


Carl
1 Lucky Texan

#67 Tolerance02

Tolerance02

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 397 posts
  • Flanders

Posted 04 September 2003 - 01:35 PM

If the tensioner is bad the 'piston' can be pushed in by hand easy. There is no pump up, it works independant almost like a strut. There is a coil spring inside the cylinder that pushes the tensioner roller toward the belt, a system inside with oil and very small canals and/or valves makes that it kan' not be pushed back in a short time.
In the original parts catalog this cylider formed peace mounted with two bolts is actually called 'adjuster' the roller is called 'tensioner'.
I only once had a bad adjuster, it leacked oil and could be pushed in by hand about 1/4 inch. Nothing wrong, only a short rattle by cold start in the morning.

#68 Lorryb

Lorryb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 70 posts
  • Manitoba

Posted 04 September 2003 - 02:21 PM

Carl, I lucked out, the dealer has one in stock, gonna pick it up tomorrow and put it all back together again on Saturday. Who'd a thunk a little tab like that was important. I thought it was a handy thing to pry on to get the gear off! It should really be noted somewhere (don't know where) that those tabs are important and not to pry on them when trying to remove the gear. I had a tough of a time getting the gear off 'cause the key was bitched.
Lorry

#69 Legacy777

Legacy777

    Moderator

  • Moderator
  • 12,639 posts
  • Houston, Tx

Posted 04 September 2003 - 02:54 PM

yup.....those teeth are very important ;)

#70 subieman

subieman

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,422 posts
  • Sparks, NV

Posted 04 September 2003 - 05:31 PM

Glad we have got this problem solved! I hope the next post is " SHE RUNS"!!!

Later

#71 Lorryb

Lorryb

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 70 posts
  • Manitoba

Posted 06 September 2003 - 03:03 PM

SHE RUNS!!!
Thanks to all the help I got from everybody here at USMB, my Legacy is up and running. It kinda threw a scare into me though, at first go I spun it for about 30 seconds or so and no go. Pulled a plug and could see no fuel was getting there, so I scratched my head for a while and then thought maybe the injectors had just dried out or something and it just needed a longer spin. Sure enough after about 45 seconds more of spinning, a few coughs and away she went. Big puffs of white smoke coming out to the exhaust pipe. Oh! Oh! So I took it for a quick spin just to see if it would continue belching smoke but it cleared up right away. I vaguely remember somebody once saying that kind of thing can happen with a Subie 'cause of the horiz. opposed engine design. At any rate it seems to be running well now. Thanks again for everybodies' help and input.
Lorry

#72 Tolerance02

Tolerance02

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 397 posts
  • Flanders

Posted 06 September 2003 - 03:11 PM

Great!!!

#73 Cougar

Cougar

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 6,340 posts
  • Anchorage

Posted 06 September 2003 - 03:15 PM

Your welcome for the help Lorryb. Thanks for the feedback on this. Knowing what fixes the problem helps us learn also.

As the saying goes: "Drive On".

#74 1 Lucky Texan

1 Lucky Texan

    I read a lot about Subarus

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 4,941 posts
  • Texas

Posted 06 September 2003 - 06:16 PM

You deserve a big round of APPLAUSE!!!

I wish I had your dedication, I woulda' let the dealer have it I think. Though there was a time in my life when I HAD to fix the '48 Willys, the '51 Chevy(that thing ATE generators!), the '78 Civic that sucked a valve in cylender #2, the '64 Ramb - well- other car issues in my life) 'cause of no money but I guess I've gotten lazy and stiff as I've gotten older.

Also, I think this thread will be helpful for folks in the future too. I learned a lot. You have helped unknown future Sube owners and they OWE YOU MAN!

good job

Carl
1 Lucky Texan

#75 incognito

incognito

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 441 posts
  • Eagle River

Posted 06 September 2003 - 11:13 PM

yeh, my 1990 Loyale got a "screw loose" one time, the screw that holds the rotor on properly fell out. Caused the timing to go out of whack, or somethin? took me like 5 months to find :banghead:

Screw loose, broken tooth, anyway, I feel ya LorryB. Good job. :headbang:




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users