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Subiesport 1400DL Historic Rally Project *56k beware*


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30 replies to this topic

#1 ricochet

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 11:19 PM

This is a continuation of the Subiesport Magazine 'old school' project thread located here:
http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=28964

In that thread I basically asked for suggestions for an old school project. It later turned out my grandfather had this 1400 DL sitting in a barn and was willing to 'donate it to the cause.' It's a 1976 1400 DL 4WD Wagon powered by a 1400cc (hence the name) boxer engine. We're going to build it up into a historic class rally car and detail the progress in Subiesport Magazine. Now, back to my regularly scheduled post:

============================

Okay, here are the first shots of the car. I went up today for a little recon to see just what what sitting in the barn--and what wasn't.

Posted Image
Replacement 36,000-mile EA63 engine

Posted Image
Engine goes here, apparently 75,000 on the odo (though I wont be suprised if it's really 175,000--but 75k is what my grandfather was told)

Posted Image
Currently powered by a small forklift

Posted Image
Did you know the 1400 DL has a "city" and a "country" horn volume control?

Posted Image
The rear is a bit loaded with parts from the original engine

Okay, now you've seen it. What do you think? Suggestions for where to go from here? Obviously we need to get it running. What would you do? Remember, I'd like it to be up and running (safely and reliably) in time for the June No Alibi TSD gravel rally :D

I'm out of town for a couple days, but will check back when I return.

Cheers,

Ryan Douthit, Publisher
Subiesport Magazine
http://www.subiesport.com

#2 moosens

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 11:47 PM

Looks like the corrected/improved 1400 there,worth keeping.If you get rid of it let me know.

I've got some parts from a '75 4WD wagon still around.

#3 Qman

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 09:05 AM

Wow, that was fast. We only talked about it a week ago didn't we? Should definitely be a fun project.Give me a call if you need any help.


Ken

#4 85Sub4WD

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 10:03 AM

It's beautiful. I am very amazed at the lack of rust. It is hard to find soobs even from the '80s without a good deal of rust.
I sincerely hope you can get it running. How about a Weber conversion? I think the weakest point on carbed soobs is the Hitachi carb (or do you have something different)? I assume you have breaker points, it might be a good idea to convert to electronic ignition by using a 1984? EA81 disty (one which just has the two wires coming out of it).
Good Luck!!
After the rally - try to get the A/C working!!!

#5 erik litchy

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 11:04 AM

i think id start with getting a detail or something because thats nasty. I hope you dont find rats nests in it

#6 Snowman

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 12:14 PM

Clean it up before you start working on it. Much more enjoyable that way.

Can a dual-carb manifold be attached to that engine? That would be the coolest option for intake as far as historic is concerned.

#7 spanky_pete

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 04:06 PM

Yup, looks just like the silver wagon I pass on my way to work. Although yours appears to be in better shape.

#8 soobscript

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 04:13 PM

I like the body style. It'll look great shiny.

#9 ricochet

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 09:13 PM

Any suggestions on getting rid of the underbody rust? For those that have done it before: should we just do it first (and suggestions on technique). Or should we get it running, then worry about the underbody rust?

Thanks!

R

#10 bushbasher

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 09:21 PM

rusted through or surface rust? things rusting through are often structural and especially if you plan to drive the car hard, should be fixed by welding in metal.

Since I'm guessing that you're going to have the car apart anyways, maybe take off the suspension, leave the motor/tranny out and put the shell up on some blocks or maybe even on its side with enough padding, and work on it like that. So in this case I would deal with it first. It might be an idea to get all the major bodywork done first and then start the mechanicals when everythings cleaned up and painted. Doing bodywork doesnt make for a great magazine article IMO cause its the same as any other car, so that might factor into decisions of whether it should be done first last or spread out through the build.

#11 ricochet

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 09:47 PM

rusted through or surface rust? things rusting through are often structural and especially if you plan to drive the car hard, should be fixed by welding in metal.


From the primary inspection it appears to just be surface rust. I was thinking about just putting it up on blocks, and sandblasting the underside to start. Any alternate suggestions?

R

#12 moosens

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 12:13 AM

Other than putting it on a rotiserie I'd say your starting out right.Should be all surface rust for you folks out west.If you find some rot through,then weld in some metal after cutting the rot out to solid metal.

These cars are super simple to work on.You can have it all apart in a day or less and it'll be much lighter.You can then work on the engine and suspension/drive train much easier.

To do it right you need time and money.To fall short is a real shame so please consider all the costs before going all out.You might want to just have fun and keep the budget low.You'll probably be happier in the long run.You want glory?You have to plunk down the coin.

To be serious about running a car this old you MUST consider these:
new radiator
new tires
new suspension
new brakes
solid exhaust
new pumps
gasket kit for engine
new U-joints

To ignore any of these you'd be asking for trouble.And you'd end up on your butt.Spend a few hundred and you'll go a lot further.Treat it like a $50 joke car and it'll probably embarass you soon.

my 2 cents
good luck

#13 XSNRG

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 12:26 AM

Sheet, that SOB already ahs 14" pugs!
I bet your grandad is excited.

This is a continuation of the Subiesport Magazine 'old school' project thread located here:
http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=28964

In that thread I basically asked for suggestions for an old school project. It later turned out my grandfather had this 1400 DL sitting in a barn and was willing to 'donate it to the cause.' It's a 1976 1400 DL 4WD Wagon powered by a 1400cc (hence the name) boxer engine. We're going to build it up into a historic class rally car and detail the progress in Subiesport Magazine. Now, back to my regularly scheduled post:

============================

Okay, here are the first shots of the car. I went up today for a little recon to see just what what sitting in the barn--and what wasn't.

Posted Image
Replacement 36,000-mile EA63 engine

Posted Image
Engine goes here, apparently 75,000 on the odo (though I wont be suprised if it's really 175,000--but 75k is what my grandfather was told)

Posted Image
Currently powered by a small forklift

Posted Image
Did you know the 1400 DL has a "city" and a "country" horn volume control?

Posted Image
The rear is a bit loaded with parts from the original engine

Okay, now you've seen it. What do you think? Suggestions for where to go from here? Obviously we need to get it running. What would you do? Remember, I'd like it to be up and running (safely and reliably) in time for the June No Alibi TSD gravel rally :D

I'm out of town for a couple days, but will check back when I return.

Cheers,

Ryan Douthit, Publisher
Subiesport Magazine
http://www.subiesport.com



#14 ezapar

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 01:04 AM

I still say an ea81 4speed dual range swap would be smart. Much easier to get parts for. You can build a reliable ea81 to be way more powerful than a 1400 too.

Definitely need some enkeis or pug alloys instead of the steels it's got now.

#15 tailgatewagon

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 02:30 AM

this is a relly neat post.
the first car run by subaru in the usa was in class A in the 1974 (??) rally they used the 2dr coupes,,,, here is what a add run by subaru said after the rally

a Gruelling, punishing course: more thean 2000 miles of twists, turns, bumps, rocks, mud, muck, sand, and fallen trees. thats the total "press on regardless" rally. it takes its toll of cars and drivers alike. out of 87 starters, only 21 finished but for the front wheel drive subaru it was a smashing success.
two GL coupes blasted through the deep northern michigan forest and uppper peninsula wilderness to capture both first and second place in the class A competition.


it gos on a little more. anyway the licencs number was RBP 195 not shure what state,

i did some searching on the internet a long time ago and the car is still around. its even in washington or was when i was looking for info....

#16 baccaruda

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 05:50 AM

if it's already taken apart, and if framerail surgery doesn't scare you, you might see if an EJ22 swap will fit. much of what it will need just to run stock could easily apply to a swap; why not make it competitive now? you could put in a 5 speed, and the electric work in that car is so simple, it would basically be adding the EJ22 wiring, and splicing in a fuel pump.

#17 Skip

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 10:16 AM

the dangers of sandblasting the under side are well documented

the fracted silicon dust will work it's way into all bearings.

I have found it more advantageous to use a rotary wire
rust scale remover and apply a coating of POR 15
or similar

Good luck, real kewl project you have there

#18 moosens

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 11:11 AM

the dangers of sandblasting the under side are well documented

the fracted silicon dust will work it's way into all bearings.

I have found it more advantageous to use a rotary wire
rust scale remover and apply a coating of POR 15
or similar

Good luck, real kewl project you have there



Skip,no danger is he removes all the items with bearings.In my opinion,to make his project a serious one he needs to remove the engine,tranny,suspension and wheel components and start from the unibody alone.Hence,a rotiserie job or as best as he can produce.

You have to understand that I live in an area with several top of the line restoration shops and they all blast the cars.My friend has recently oversought the restoration on his brother inlaw's Aston Martin DB5 and an Alfa GTV 6.The cars are in top shape and the DB5 won it's class at the Greenwich Concourse......big money car,beyond our wallets.Yes,it was blasted,albeit ever so gently given the aluminumn body,with engine all bearings removed,of course.

The main thing to consider is that the blaster or those thereafter completely wash the car's chassis/body out before setting any bearings back into the car.The GTV6 was done WITH the engine,etc. inplace but it was sealed in plastic and rinsed thoroughly.

I'm probably shooting for the stars here.I think your project is neat but I don't see where you're going to dump the proper amount of cash into it and get the results I personally would like to see.....a proper restoration of the unibody.

I'm sure you'll do a great job.Don't take my words as a cut on you,your project,or Skip's opinion.There's the backyard way and there's the money way.This is why my cars won't be done for a while.Must save coin.I refuse to spend as much time as needed to do it myself while raising children.You can't fall behind on THAT project.

Good luck with it,post pics.

#19 ricochet

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 11:15 AM

I have found it more advantageous to use a rotary wire
rust scale remover and apply a coating of POR 15
or similar


Ah, good suggestion. And for everyone recommending tranny swaps...doing so will, in fact, make us less competitive. Once we do that, we're in open class with the STi's and much more experienced drivers. We'd get our assets handed to us on a silver platter.

Sticking to stock components will allow us to run in the Historic class--the only place this chassis really belongs.

#20 bushbasher

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 11:49 AM

What is allowed for engine modification? Cause Im sure you could build a little screamer out of that thing with a delta cam, planed, ported/polished heads, and a weber on a custom intake manifold.

#21 operose

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 12:32 PM

that's just like the wagon I saw on my way to montreal yesterday... right between chateaugay and the trout river border crossing in upstate NY, sitting next to an abandoned building in literally the middle of nowhere... but it was green

#22 DerFahrer

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 12:52 PM

Very cool! Put plenty of coverage in the magazine!

#23 moosens

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 01:14 PM

that's just like the wagon I saw on my way to montreal yesterday... right between chateaugay and the trout river border crossing in upstate NY, sitting next to an abandoned building in literally the middle of nowhere... but it was green


Hey,let me know some more about this one,please.

I'll PM right now.

#24 SUBARU3

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 03:59 PM

Wow!! I'm impressed. Let me know if I can help out! I have quite a few parts, so send me your list.


There are NEW exhausts available: $50
email Fgansettauto@aol.com



GREAT guy to deal with too.

I'm in agreement with Paul though....restore this, dont modify, unless it's simple things. An EA71 would be a better and easier engine swap. (No head gasket issues)

#25 85Sub4WD

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 04:51 PM

I agree with SUBARU3 on not modifying, though just for the heck of it I would run the 14000cc engine :)
This car is more of a museum piece than a potiential hot-rod.
If you want to start modding, then get a newer one with a better front end (late EA71/EA81/EA82) cars would be a better choice. You will probably start tearing up the drivetrain if you drop too big an engine in there.
I don't blame you if you do decide to go for an EA71, because you may need the power and if the EA63 has head gasket issues (I am not aware of any).
Have Fun - that is the biggest upside to car restoration; you can drive the final product!!




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