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16 replies to this topic

#1 Nug

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 09:27 PM

Sounds simple, but is it?
I need to put timing belts on an ea82. Simple, right.
Now let's say this engine is no longer in a subaru, it has a different flywheel with no marks, and has a bellhousing on the back with no inspection hole to see the marks, which aren't there anyway.

What i'm asking is, what on the front of the engine corallates with the marks on the flywheel? The little dowel pin in the crank timing gear, the keyway in the crank, or some other dot or mark?
Also, I am cursed with having a very worthless Chilton's manual to go by. Do the little holes in the camshaft sprockets both face up, or are they 180 apart?
I hate to ask a question which has been asked a million times before, but the no flywheel marks have me stumped.
Eric:cornfuzz:

#2 Russ Hill

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 10:12 PM

O.K. This might work :-\
Since your going to time the cams anyway.......
Bring the #1 piston to top dead center and mark something. Like the crank sprocket and block... just so you have a reference point.
Then replace the belts per procedure.
Since the cams are retimed, you can make any stroke you want the compression stroke. I think.............
Sounds logical anyway :-)

#3 Nug

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 10:18 PM

Well, before I put this engine together, I transferred the timing marks from the flywheel onto the crank pulley. However, I didn't transfer the timing belt marks. Apparently, these marks aren't related to each other at all, from what I understand.


Cmon, there's gotta be another way to do this, save for pulling the engine and putting the old flywheel back on and making more marks on the pulley.

#4 ByTheSea

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 11:34 PM

Someone who has a EA82 flywheel handy can degree it for you maybe? If you take a soft tape measure or even some string you can get the total circumfrence(sp?) of the flywheel and the distance (around) betwean 0 degree (TDC) and the center valve timing mark. Then you get the circumfrence of your marked pully and calculate the ratio betwean them and apply that to the spacing etc etc,,,

And yes when installed the cam sprocket marks point in opposite directions.

Hope this helps

#5 Snowman

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 11:44 PM

I don't mean to diss your answer or anything, Russ. Also, I am just going on my intuition here, so I am not a terribly reputable source. I think you have to get it timed correctly. Having it timed at the wrong top dead center would make it properly timed for the #1 cylinder, but the others would most likely be screwed up.

#6 ByTheSea

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Posted 25 August 2003 - 11:57 PM

Having it timed at the wrong top dead center would make it properly timed for the #1 cylinder, but the others would most likely be screwed up.



Sorry gotta say it,,,ROFL,,,been there myself though.

There is only one TDC per customer. Russ's answer is valid. All the cylinders are linked by the crank so you can't screw it up if you time the valves as per Chilton/Haynes/FSM. Just gotta remember that TDC is not the correct position for the crank when timing valves

#7 Russ Hill

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Posted 26 August 2003 - 02:41 AM

Hmmm,
I forgot that the three hash marks you use are not the same as the timing mark for the spark. (I just replaced the belts on my '86 three days ago, duh)
If the belts didn't break, you could maybe replace them without moving anything
BTW, the dimples in the cam sprockets will be 180 apart after the cams are timed.
good luck bro'

#8 Ratty2Austin

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Posted 26 August 2003 - 03:03 AM

I should know this... I just rebuilt an ea82 a week ago...~!

the crank position should be so that all 4 pistons are at their center point (normally where the center of the 3 notches on the flywheel is marked) and then the non-disty cam (pass/right side) pully's timing mark is aligned with the mark pointing straight up, and the other side (drivers/left) with the disty is pointing down...
(definate yes on the timing marks on the cams being opposite when lined up properly, the haynes manual (showing them to be both up) is wrong)
I have done this now about 2 or 3 times within this year... and I have also just done a EJ22 timing belt! (I am getting better at it each time!!)
:brow:
good luck with your (whatever project it may be, sounds like a VW conversion?)
!

Austin

#9 Svengouli7

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Posted 26 August 2003 - 08:24 AM

if you locate TDC 1, the left (passenger) cam timing mark should sit at right between 10 and 11 o'clock (i guess that makes it 10:30, eh?) - the right should be in the exact opposite corner, between 4 and 5 o'clock. It's not the way they have in to books to go by but I managed to do it once like that...

#10 Nug

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Posted 26 August 2003 - 10:25 AM

I'm a givin' it another shot. I've had them wrong in several different combinations, so the right one should fall in place eventually.
If anyone else has any other ideas, please let me know.
I appreciate it greatly.
We need a smiley that gets on it's knees and worships, I'd be using him now.

#11 mudrat79

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Posted 26 August 2003 - 12:56 PM

Ok try it this way......

Pull #3 plug out and get that hole at TDC.......With it at TDC,

Driverside cam Has a hole in the sprocket...Turn Cam so hole is at Noon....There is a corrilated mark in the timing cover plastic.....install this cam belt sitting as such.......
Now without moving crank or any other part ,spin Passenger side cam so hole in it is pointing at 6 ....Should also have a corrilated mark in Timing cover plastic.....Install this Timing belt.....

Without moving anything again,Check plug on # 3....it should be at TDC

If so, you should be GTG......

Turn crank 180, and pull # 1 plug.....It should be At TDC.......?

if so try to fire it up.......:)

Hope this works, This is for EA-82 motors, but sounds as if 2.2 is roughly the same....?

Later , John in Oregon.....

#12 MilesFox

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Posted 26 August 2003 - 01:23 PM

here is what i have found with my experiences with the ea82:

the keyway on the crank snout is in line with the 3 marks on the flywheel

use the keyway to do the belts, driver side first, with the dot up. the haynes book says to rotate the crank 360 deg, so the dot is down, and install the passenger side dot up.
what that does is release the bind off the pass. side cam.

you can skip that procedure, after lining up the driver side cam dot up, turn the passenger cam dot down. but you will feel the tension of valve springs on the cam, it will have a "balance point", where the cam may want to flip one way or the other, but i sometimes do it like that. just make sure you have good grip on the cam pulley(its easier when eliminating the plastic covers to expose cam pulley

now that the belts are on, now time for ignition
here is a technique i learned just last weekend when installing a distributor

while comparing engines for ignition timing, when the motor is at 0 deg TDC, the passenger side cam pulley will have the dot in line with the top rib on the cam cover

__________ .
SUBARU
__________

where the period represents the cam dot. I had trouble determining compression or exhaust stroke, so i liiked at a motor that was still in another car, lined up the marks, and lookes to see where the cam sprocket was.

the rotor on the distributor will be just to the right of the screw/clip on the distributor side that faces the firewall

try this and report back with your results. it worked for me, should work for no flywheel reference

#13 Nug

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Posted 26 August 2003 - 01:54 PM

Miles, good to hear from you. From what I have gathered on this forum, I got the picture that you probably had a method that deviated from the norm, which I can appreciate. One such example was the bolt breaking in the tensioner of the trashwagon, at the beginning of your ill-fated but well documented trip to the northwest.
Anyway, I thank all that have replied, and I'm certain that another rare Subaru powered beetle will soon hit the street.
(Now everyone is thinking "I should have kept my mouth shut"). :banghead:

#14 MilesFox

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Posted 26 August 2003 - 02:22 PM

yeah, i found out this trick last weekend when putting an spfi motor with a carb down into a turbo wagon. required fuel pump swaps and such, but i got it to work.
anything i tell to do is from my own two dirty hands and however it wirks for me. from timing belts to axles, to 2-door wagons!

#15 Nug

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Posted 26 August 2003 - 02:44 PM

Yeah, I learned all kinds of things about VW's. I know it like the back of my hand. Made a bunch of mistakes on it (it being my first car) that i'm now going around and trying to fix. After blowing up about 5 VW motors, I decided to go with an engine that I know will perform reliably. So here I am.
This thread is actually directed to a roomate's car. He saw what I was doing, and decided to convince me to help him with his. So we've got my bug w/ Ej22. and his super beetle w/ EA82.

Maybe in a couple weeks I'll post some gratuitous burnout pics.:burnout:

#16 Nug

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Posted 26 August 2003 - 07:57 PM

Well, we screwed around for quite a while, and finally, the thing started. This is basically what I've got.
Mark TDC onto crank sprocket. Put crank at TDC.
Move cams six teeth before they reach their respective timing marks.
Crank and enjoy.
P.S. Then it wouldn't start again, took about 30 minutes to realize it's out of gas.
Eric
:banghead:

#17 MilesFox

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Posted 27 August 2003 - 01:06 PM

after pulling a cam cover on my ride last night, the ribs i mentioned should be like this:

SUBARU
---------- .

______

where the word SUBARU should be above the 2 ribs. hope i didn't throw you off, but you got it started anyway!




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