Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

grounding...


  • Please log in to reply
59 replies to this topic

#1 WJM

WJM

    SUBARU

  • Members
  • 7,828 posts

Posted 14 February 2005 - 08:34 PM

any good suggestions on grounding? i just ran a nice double 12 guage wire set from the batt to the alt bracket and from there to the strut tower...seems to run better...and the fuel cut gremlin is not so bad...but still there....

#2 ballitch

ballitch

    Certified Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 1,000 posts
  • Salem, OR

Posted 14 February 2005 - 08:41 PM

i know ima ground the crap out of the 86 gl when the darn engine runs. the easier path for electricity to move in a circuit the better the transfer of power. easy way to make your car rev faster and have better throttle response, some internet site sold grounding wire kits for the new gen cars, wonder how well they work.........(start daydream here).....................

#3 TheSubaruJunkie

TheSubaruJunkie

    I'M BAAAAAACK!

  • Members
  • 1,921 posts
  • Sacramento

Posted 14 February 2005 - 08:45 PM

I oughta do that. Wonder if it would make my DIFF LOCK light stop flickering when its off.

-Brian

#4 archemitis

archemitis

    guy smiley

  • Members
  • 3,554 posts
  • the big minnie

Posted 14 February 2005 - 08:51 PM

go buy welding cable. 2/0 solder on the copper ends. mine is overgrounded, but it doesnt hurt anything at all.

i think i ran 0 guage from the engine bay to the back seat for my battery relocation.
ground your o2 sensor, or make sure the exhaust is grouned nicely, not through the studs in the head.

fat power cables are just as inportant as fat grounds afaik.

#5 tizzle

tizzle

    Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 623 posts
  • Bellingham

Posted 14 February 2005 - 08:56 PM

http://www.scoobymod...light=grounding

It's definitely worth a try on the RX, but I don't think I'll worry about it on the legacy.

#6 hooziewhatsit

hooziewhatsit

    I fix old cars

  • Members
  • 1,333 posts
  • Klamath Falls

Posted 14 February 2005 - 09:11 PM

I should add a lot more grounding my wife's loyale. It was scary how dirty they were even though they looked alright from the outside.

I never thought about making sure the exhaust is grounded better...

Just cleaning the existing grounds made the 'fuel pump & dash gauges pulsing with the turn signal' a little better.

#7 MorganM

MorganM

    Do you Subaru?

  • Members
  • 8,390 posts
  • TwinCities

Posted 14 February 2005 - 09:34 PM

When everyone and their brother told me my alternator problem was a bad ground I upgraded grounding under the engine bay. ALl grounding surfaces were scraped to bare metal and dielectric grease was used.

Fat wire (diameter of my pinky? dunno the guage sorry) from battery to body; this was in addition to the original one going from battery to starter/bell housing. One from tranny to other side of engine bay opposite of battery. Another fat one from center, front, of engine to unibody. Tripple checked, replaced if needed, pulled off and cleaned even if it didnt; all other grounds I could find.

#8 archemitis

archemitis

    guy smiley

  • Members
  • 3,554 posts
  • the big minnie

Posted 14 February 2005 - 10:08 PM

When everyone and their brother told me my alternator problem was a bad ground I upgraded grounding under the engine bay. ALl grounding surfaces were scraped to bare metal and dielectric grease was used.

Fat wire (diameter of my pinky? dunno the guage sorry) from battery to body; this was in addition to the original one going from battery to starter/bell housing. One from tranny to other side of engine bay opposite of battery. Another fat one from center, front, of engine to unibody. Tripple checked, replaced if needed, pulled off and cleaned even if it didnt; all other grounds I could find.


your avatar hurts my dailup...

but your problem ended up being an alternator, right?

#9 85Sub4WD

85Sub4WD

    EA82 Junkie

  • Members
  • 1,244 posts
  • Raleigh NC/Charlotte NC

Posted 14 February 2005 - 11:56 PM

I did not properly ground the ECU housing when I converted to SPFI and had MAJOR issues (as in I needed a new computer) - I now have grounding wires EVERYWHERE!!
Additional grounding is a GREAT idea in all cases/applications.

#10 royboy159

royboy159

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 160 posts
  • atop the Alleghenies

Posted 15 February 2005 - 12:29 AM

If you have doubts about your grounding, set ohm meter on 1x or 10x scale. Place probes across suspect connection e.g. car frame and engine block. If reading is over 1 ohm it's time to work on grounding.:)

#11 scrapdaddytatum

scrapdaddytatum

    the subaru surgeon

  • Members
  • 790 posts
  • charlottesville, virginia

Posted 15 February 2005 - 12:48 AM

i ground all my cars, i noticed better air/fuel ratio's( better injector action) when i grounded the rx wagon, i plan on more grounds soon, i am doing the battery in the rear with a gell cell, actually i think i might do 4 small sealed batterys in the stow compartment in the rear hidding it all and better even weight, but grounding allways helps, but dont forget to do new nice terminals and new starter ground and positive cable, helps a ton, well worth the investment, get 1 guage and make all the pieces and have a welder solder on the ends, might cost 40 bucks for everything, but will help everything

#12 Snowman

Snowman

    Midnight Passenger

  • Members
  • 3,538 posts
  • Haines

Posted 15 February 2005 - 01:49 AM

Hrm, might have to look into better ground cables.


Arch is right, I've been told that fine strand welding cable makes the best battery cables. Logically, it should make great ground cables too.

#13 Skip

Skip

    Flatuous Blather

  • Moderator
  • 8,991 posts
  • Latrobe, Pennsylvania

Posted 15 February 2005 - 08:54 AM

Running these ground cables is fine
but
if the ground wire to the component is
not making a near zero resistance connection,

your auxiliary grounds will do little good.
Maybe in your mind they will??

Below are some major grounding points to check/add
your aux cable.
(12 AWG is fine 0 is for the sat night boyz,
current in a wire is carried on the outside surface of the conductor
this is why stranded is the best type to use)

Common Subaru ground points
1) front driver's side core support
2) pass side front intake manifold bolt
3) behind the coil - driverside inner fender
4) 02 sensor
5) coil bracket (SPFI and MPFI w/ig amp)

Doubt this helps

#14 MorganM

MorganM

    Do you Subaru?

  • Members
  • 8,390 posts
  • TwinCities

Posted 15 February 2005 - 09:41 AM

your avatar hurts my dailup...

but your problem ended up being an alternator, right?


Yes, it was the alternator.

#15 royboy159

royboy159

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 160 posts
  • atop the Alleghenies

Posted 15 February 2005 - 02:08 PM

I agree with Skip. Internal grounding was probably added to vehicles when external grounding proved to be too unreliable. But those internal grounds have to be less than 1 ohm all the time also.:cool:

#16 hooziewhatsit

hooziewhatsit

    I fix old cars

  • Members
  • 1,333 posts
  • Klamath Falls

Posted 15 February 2005 - 02:52 PM

Out of curiosity, I just went and did some probing on my wifes loyale. With the battery still connected, very places were under 1 ohm.

With the battery disconnected, most places were under an ohm.

The bracket the ECU is mounted on was about an ohm, so I ran another wire to to from the fuel pump mounting bracket (easiest for right now).

It appears to have made a small difference in the pulsing I was getting in the fuel pump. I'll know for sure later today when I take it for a drive.

#17 TheSubaruJunkie

TheSubaruJunkie

    I'M BAAAAAACK!

  • Members
  • 1,921 posts
  • Sacramento

Posted 15 February 2005 - 11:43 PM

I cleaned up my battery terminals today. Removed all the grounds and took my dremel and a wire-wheel to every contact. I also re-grounded my windshield wiper motor, and now the wipers work 4x better and my intermittent works again :)

-Brian

#18 nkx

nkx

    Rallycross Junkie

  • Members
  • 891 posts
  • Carlisle, PA

Posted 16 February 2005 - 12:51 AM

and now the wipers work 4x better and my intermittent works again :)


my intermittent causes the wiper to move a lil bit, stop, move a lil bit, stop, etc... but it takes forever for it to actually complete a whole up/down cycle. is this the same problem you had?

#19 TheSubaruJunkie

TheSubaruJunkie

    I'M BAAAAAACK!

  • Members
  • 1,921 posts
  • Sacramento

Posted 16 February 2005 - 12:09 PM

Yup, thats the same problem I had.

Look on the wiper motor. You will see a small wire thats grounded to the gearset plate. I just unscrewed it from there, extended that wire and grounded it to the chassi of the car.

BADABING!

-Brian

#20 Hank Roberts

Hank Roberts

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 342 posts

Posted 05 April 2005 - 02:06 PM

Here's a somewhat different take I just happened on, from the boating side. The thoughts about corrosion and vibration may apply for cars too.

<a href="http://www.stripersonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb_547C/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001468;p=0">How to rewire boat?? - StripersOnline - SurfTalk</a>: "
Here are a few pointers:

1) Always use tinned multi-strand marine grade wire (the tin prevents the copper from oxidizing). Anchor products are arguably the best, and not cheap if you buy from West Marine or Boaters World.
2) Use only marine grade crimp connectors on everything.
3) Use a good 'double' ratcheted crimper for all connections (Anchor makes this too) - NEVER SOLDER connections because the vibrations in a boat may cause them to break where the wire flexes by the 'stiff' solder.
4) For general lighting and accessories use 14 gauge wire for total loads less than 15 amps and a total run of ~50 ft. If the load is more or you have a long run, increase the qauge accordingly. Check out Blue Seas website for exact load/run values.
5) Use marine grade heat shrink that has adhesive on the inside to make water tight connections. Do this even on terminal ends where the end of the wire is exposed. To seal the ends, just make sure its cover the ends and after you heat it, press is closed with your fingers.
6) Get a good heat gun - don't use a hair dryer, you'll waist a lot of time.
7) Use electro magnetic grease on all fuse and bulb contacts.
8) While your at it, replace all running and navigation lights with LEDs. They are brighter and won't drain the battery.

That about covers the basics."

#21 royboy159

royboy159

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 160 posts
  • atop the Alleghenies

Posted 05 April 2005 - 02:28 PM

Hey Hank----I always regarded boaters as the ultimate survivors of the environment.
"NEVER SOLDER connections because the vibrations in a boat may cause them to break where the wire flexes by the 'stiff' solder."
Good to know. I always thought solder connections were better, just too much work. I've seen them crack but I have m/cycle connections that have lasted. Thanks, roy

#22 Hank Roberts

Hank Roberts

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 342 posts

Posted 05 April 2005 - 03:40 PM

Here's another aspect -- from the aircraft builder side:
"Automotive wiring is covered with PVC insulation which gasses-off cyanide gas when it melts or burns,...a major contributor to deaths in aircraft fires where otherwise folks were uninjured. Automotive and Radio-Shack switches are not intended for high-vibration and can internally disintegrate due to the abusive aircraft environment. When they do they can spark, short-out and overheat and sometimes be the source of the previously mentioned fire. "

Link: https://www.globalair.com/discussions/georges_hangar/article.asp?msgID=475#replies

#23 MorganM

MorganM

    Do you Subaru?

  • Members
  • 8,390 posts
  • TwinCities

Posted 05 April 2005 - 03:53 PM

When my last alternator was acting funny everyone said "well check yer grounds son!". So I've pulled every ground I could find, cleaned up the terminal end on the wire with sand paper, cleaned up the contact surface with sand paper, applied a little dielectric grease to the terminal end, and remounted the ground. Any questionable ground was replaced wtih a slightly larger ground. I also added one big one from engine to unibody, tranny to unibody, and battery to unibody.

Soldering connections is great for automotive electrical circuts. Its a very secure connection, can be properly water sealed using shrink tube, and provides a connection with out any voltage drops. A lot of times crimp on and solderless wire connectirs (wire nuts) get all corrouded up in by the crimp connection. Used both quite a bit now and the crimp on/wire nuts always fail first.

Grounds are good :grin:

#24 royboy159

royboy159

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 160 posts
  • atop the Alleghenies

Posted 05 April 2005 - 04:22 PM

A little loop in the wire just before the soldered connection might eliminate stress on the wire and solder.:brow:

#25 Vanislru

Vanislru

    Durka Durka!

  • Members
  • 791 posts
  • Cumberland, BC

Posted 05 April 2005 - 05:02 PM

(12 AWG is fine 0 is for the sat night boyz,
current in a wire is carried on the outside surface of the conductor
this is why stranded is the best type to use)

This is only true for high frequency or high voltage, the trade term is skin effect. Basically magnetic forces displace the current from the interior of the cable that's why high voltage power lines use 4 wires in a quad formation with brackets keeping them all parallel. As far as the currents concerned the might as well be 1.5 feet thick but it's really 4 small cables with a hollow core. Stranded is used in auto appl. cause it's flexible. If anything try to use a cable that's jacket is rated for oil/water/acid contact.

Good grounds [it's actually called bonding] are important, but if your bond cables and connections are in good shape then you won't see much if any hp or perf. increase.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users