Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Time to build a killer motor


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 Do It Sidewayz

Do It Sidewayz

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 464 posts
  • Toronto, Ontario

Posted 28 February 2005 - 06:02 PM

well.....i've got a year to do it...but i want to build a "killer motor" for racing next year.

motor is for an '85 RX Sedan...which doubles duty as my rally car

My aim is to go out and show a couple Mazda 323 GTX's how it's done...both GTX's are are making around 145-150 WHP. A GTX and my RX are similar in weight...however i will do some weight reduction on the rx with Plexi windows and that kind of thing

So...my aim is 150-160 whp...but reliable....This engine needs to run at WOT for effectively 90% of the time for 12 KM straight...no letting off. Basically the engine needs to be 100% bullet proof.

I'm thinking of 2 engine set ups, both will use efffectly the same parts.. but one will use an N/A block and pistons, while the other will use a turbo block.

But....parts list includes:

- Copper or MLS head gaskets
- Some mild port/polish work while the heads are off
- WRX or similar Turbo
- WRX or Front mount I/C
- Proper engine management tuned with a wide-band 02 sensor (i have a wideband)
- Custom exhaust manifold
- Larger or additional Injectors
- possibly timing tuned for 110 Octane fuel

If i run "low" compression..it'll run around 17-18 PSI..if "high" compression...probably someplace around 12-13 PSI.

Anyone wish to wager a guess as what kinda #'s this would put down on a dyno? I know what Will's made...and if it made that and was completely bullet proof i'd be happy.

#2 subyrally

subyrally

    Trust your Turbo-Lust

  • Members
  • 2,888 posts
  • frederick, md

Posted 28 February 2005 - 07:05 PM

lets see, you could get a p&p on the intake and exhaust, valve job, delta cams , forged pistons, spyder intake manifold with larger throttle, better injectors with possibly a custom fuel rail, adjustable fpr, high flow fuel pump, ms'n' edis with msd ignition components, deadbolt monster td04 turbo, custom header, 2.5-3" exhaust with like a bell mouth downpipe, lightened and high rmp balanced drive shaft, 2-core radiator, fmic, lightened forged piston rods, possibly a light weight balanced crank, ic sprayer, and thats all i can think of for the moment, i might burn a few more brain cells trying to think up some more though. i think that can all be done with the ea82. thats my plan for building up a monster anyways. itsgoing to hurt my wallet.

good luck and keep us posted on what you go with and how much your putting out.

peace
tim c.

#3 subyrally

subyrally

    Trust your Turbo-Lust

  • Members
  • 2,888 posts
  • frederick, md

Posted 28 February 2005 - 07:06 PM

almost forgot, arp head studs and fasteners.

#4 americanyouth

americanyouth

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 128 posts
  • Tolland

Posted 28 February 2005 - 08:32 PM

lets see, you could get a p&p on the intake and exhaust, valve job, delta cams , forged pistons, spyder intake manifold with larger throttle, better injectors with possibly a custom fuel rail, adjustable fpr, high flow fuel pump, ms'n' edis with msd ignition components, deadbolt monster td04 turbo, custom header, 2.5-3" exhaust with like a bell mouth downpipe, lightened and high rmp balanced drive shaft, 2-core radiator, fmic, lightened forged piston rods, possibly a light weight balanced crank, ic sprayer, and thats all i can think of for the moment, i might burn a few more brain cells trying to think up some more though. i think that can all be done with the ea82. thats my plan for building up a monster anyways. itsgoing to hurt my wallet.

good luck and keep us posted on what you go with and how much your putting out.

peace
tim c.


You forgot something, Tim.

Water injection - great safegaurd against det. It's definitely going into my EA82T. :D

#5 WJM

WJM

    SUBARU

  • Members
  • 7,828 posts

Posted 28 February 2005 - 08:36 PM

My setup.

Its proven 161 WHP/205 TQ....TWE header, Downpipe...WRX (Now STi) TMIC, GReddy Spec II EBC, an intake...thats it...otherwise its stock and Ive put 10k miles on this, and the Dragon trip last time was most certinly about 20 miles (went thru it about 4 times) of nothing but WOT at high boost. No issues.

AND on top of all that...NO LAG!! :headbang:

You can go to a PnP TD04L13G and not have much lag still...but you will certinly need some engine management and injectors...I imagine you can get about 250 at the wheels on a 13G.

#6 Do It Sidewayz

Do It Sidewayz

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 464 posts
  • Toronto, Ontario

Posted 28 February 2005 - 08:55 PM

Yeah Will. i know what your running...however....i'm worried about something like that blowing up....especially without engine management and injectors.

How we push the engines is rediculus...they take a serious beating.

i forgot about the cams...however...i'm not positive they do a pile except more the power band up a couple hundred RPM's. We put Delta Cams in a Legacy Turbo, and that's about all it did for it.

I am thinking about a WRX turbo, or the VF-11 (legacy turbo) that i have now...

I didn't venture much above 8 PSI with the VF-11...mainly because i didn't need the power just running on rubber tires....I'm thinking of running studs next year and need more power..

#7 bushbasher

bushbasher

    exhaust fume addict

  • Members
  • 1,707 posts
  • Sooke B.C. Canada

Posted 28 February 2005 - 11:59 PM

I've been thinking of building a turbo motor from the crank up for awhile now. I think the key to a reliable motor will be to keep the low comp pistons, and completely ditch the stock fuel/ignition system including the subaru fuel rails, for ms 'n edis.

#8 JWX

JWX

    Lonely driver

  • Members
  • 3,073 posts
  • Atlanta

Posted 01 March 2005 - 01:54 AM

take Will's set up add engine managment and you should be set, with ofcourse some studs and better head gaskets

#9 oddcomp

oddcomp

    Subaru Master

  • Members
  • 1,763 posts
  • longview ,wa

Posted 01 March 2005 - 09:59 AM

i wonder how my vnt turbo would work for that kinda stuff hmmm

#10 billzebub

billzebub

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
  • Charlotte

Posted 01 March 2005 - 11:34 AM

Remember, Folger Subaru in Charlotte, NC still has a handful of the TWE header & downpipe to get rid of. They'll cut you a deal, I'm sure.

#11 Do It Sidewayz

Do It Sidewayz

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 464 posts
  • Toronto, Ontario

Posted 01 March 2005 - 11:43 AM

Unfortunately the price of TWE headers does not look so appealing to me, when i have the tools and ability to make my own at a fraction of the price.

#12 subyrally

subyrally

    Trust your Turbo-Lust

  • Members
  • 2,888 posts
  • frederick, md

Posted 01 March 2005 - 02:02 PM

you could make a header jig and make a bunch for the peoples on the boards. would also help to pay for the rx.



Unfortunately the price of TWE headers does not look so appealing to me, when i have the tools and ability to make my own at a fraction of the price.



#13 americanyouth

americanyouth

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 128 posts
  • Tolland

Posted 03 March 2005 - 11:05 PM

take Will's set up add engine managment and you should be set, with ofcourse some studs and better head gaskets


What kind of management would you recommend?

#14 JWX

JWX

    Lonely driver

  • Members
  • 3,073 posts
  • Atlanta

Posted 04 March 2005 - 12:37 AM

I dunno, how much have to got to spend? I'm going with MS&EDIS, cause I'm mostly broke and I'm going to tune it myself, but any will work

#15 americanyouth

americanyouth

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 128 posts
  • Tolland

Posted 04 March 2005 - 02:27 PM

I dunno, how much have to got to spend? I'm going with MS&EDIS, cause I'm mostly broke and I'm going to tune it myself, but any will work


How much have I got to spend? Not much... I was planning on some sort of AFC.

How hard is it to use this MS&EDIS?

#16 iluvdrt

iluvdrt

    to lift, or not to lift

  • Members
  • 798 posts
  • j-ville nc

Posted 04 March 2005 - 04:50 PM

As far as the head gaskets go, I have been toying with "o-ringing" the block.

That is basically where they counterbore the block and put a meatle wire o-ring into the counter bore. It is impossible to blow a H/G at the cylinder than. The only thing that could happen then is push the head off of the block, but I think with some good heads studs that would not happen.

I know a guy that has done this with a dodge cummins and runs about 90lbs of boost. Before he could only run 45.

#17 subyrally

subyrally

    Trust your Turbo-Lust

  • Members
  • 2,888 posts
  • frederick, md

Posted 04 March 2005 - 04:53 PM

i like that idea. i wnder if that will work on an aluminum block

#18 iluvdrt

iluvdrt

    to lift, or not to lift

  • Members
  • 798 posts
  • j-ville nc

Posted 04 March 2005 - 06:00 PM

I dont see why not.

#19 subyrally

subyrally

    Trust your Turbo-Lust

  • Members
  • 2,888 posts
  • frederick, md

Posted 04 March 2005 - 06:11 PM

ummm, need to go talk to the machine shop thats storeing my first engine from the rx. that might be a good idea for what i want to do.

#20 LPGsuperchargedBrumby

LPGsuperchargedBrumby

    Fully retarded and low on compression

  • Members
  • 655 posts
  • Dunedin, NZ

Posted 04 March 2005 - 08:48 PM

i like that idea. i wnder if that will work on an aluminum block


it works on a race fiat 1500cc alloy blocks one of our clients at work come and got some 0.6mm stainless mig wire to use for his block which was being machined for it at the time,it worked perfectly and he hasn't had a problem with blown HG's for 2 years now
1500cc fiat 14.5CR N/A

#21 RedRX

RedRX

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 61 posts
  • Australia

Posted 04 March 2005 - 09:11 PM

I think more aggressive cams do more for older engines (ie pre- 16 valves etc) due to the greater compromises made for economy and drivability. Not many newer engines can be improved much with cams. From whats been posted here the EA82T benefits. Mine has 30-70/70-30 durations but I have never driven a stock RX nor is my engine well set up yet (ignition or fuel issues - not sure. Sometimes runs sweet, othertimes crap)

#22 subyrally

subyrally

    Trust your Turbo-Lust

  • Members
  • 2,888 posts
  • frederick, md

Posted 04 March 2005 - 10:12 PM

ive been looking into getting my first ea82 built up into a monster, im getting more ideas every time i check this thread. thanks everyone.

#23 americanyouth

americanyouth

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 128 posts
  • Tolland

Posted 04 March 2005 - 11:38 PM

Me too. I'm trying to turbo an NA EA82.

I'm planning on using EA82T plumbing, USDM WRX IC, or maybe an old AWIC if I can find one.

Then, add water injection, boost controller, VF11 or VF7, maybe even a VF8.

I'm going to need an AFC to prevent busted pistons, I know, but the more safegaurds the better. Anyone have anything on this MS&EDIS? I'm too lazy to search right now. ;)

#24 americanyouth

americanyouth

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 128 posts
  • Tolland

Posted 05 March 2005 - 01:58 PM

Bump... I like this thread. :)

#25 NorthWet

NorthWet

    Eeyore Incarnate

  • Members
  • 5,039 posts
  • Bremerton, WA

Posted 05 March 2005 - 03:18 PM

... Anyone have anything on this MS&EDIS? I'm too lazy to search right now...

Oddcomp is running it, and I believe shadow also knows tech stuff. I have MegaSquirt pages bookmarked... somewheres. :rolleyes:

MegaSquirt is the fuel management portion of the system, and uses a Motorola 68000-series micro as its processor. It does not use the MAF, but rather a MAP sensor onboard. Very tunable/configurable.

EDIS is an adaptation of the Ford Electronic Distributorless Ignition System. It uses a crank-mounted reluctor ring and sensor to trigger a coil-pack (one coil output per cylinder) in a wasted-spark manner.

MS and its variants are offered in kit form (around $200), and some people are marketing turnkey systems (2-3 times as much).




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users