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Diesel Powered Subi?


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49 replies to this topic

#26 Nug

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 08:26 AM

The isuzu engine out of the P'up model is perfect in every way.

#27 Zefy

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 01:20 PM

rallyruss

please explain your reasoning behind your veggy bad theory? I have a diesel benz 5 cyl turbo that will be running bio D and maby veggy someday. It should run just fine from what I hear. some newer diesels can only run bio Diesel no veggy. Is that what you are refering to? if so I think it only applies to diesels with the new style injectors or "comon rail systems". I have done a bit of research as I am actively looking to go to an alternative fuel source before the great fuel price hike that will be coming some day.

dont think a suby engine case could really handle the pressures of diesel. from what I hear evin Ford is having a bit of trouble with the new 6.0 aluminum block power strokers. aluminum block and head with a diesel is not a really good idea.



i watched a show on tv where these people had to make a diesel powered buggy... they had to refine there own veggy oil to run them... from what i was told on the show it is safe to run your diesel on veggy oil but not all the time... it causes premature engine wear IF it isn't tuned to run on veggy oil...

thats just what i was told...

#28 Ross

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 07:23 PM

it causes premature engine wear IF it isn't tuned to run on veggy oil...

thats just what i was told...


There is something you add to it to prevent this..... I cant remember what it is, but it was something common household ish, and you dont need to add much. Ill have a look and see if i can find what it is.

#29 FlyB0y

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 09:41 PM

wow thanks for all the new info! :banana:

I am DEFINATELY going to look into the diesel Toyota engines .... and as far as using french-fry oil, my understanding is that the heating of the fryer oil is something of a refining process (crude yes, but effective) and that once it is no longer usefull for frying, and is collected into holding tanks, it needs no more than a good filtering.

Years ago there was a trucker that simply had a pump and tank and after filtering out the impurities, put it right into his tank as fuel.

George Washington Carver actually started the idea of making diesel fuel from soybean oil ... he and Henry Ford worked making some alternitive fuels tword the end or shortly after WWII ... I forget which ... there was a great special on about GWC on the history channel.

It's also my understanding that if you want to get fryer oil diesel fuel on the cheap, you can simply pump it and place it in large holding tanks and let the solids settle to the bottom over time, much like way you purify water with detention tanks/ponds and then you will have much less problem filtering :cool:

#30 FlyB0y

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 09:43 PM

tell me more about this engine! I have no experiance with Isuzus :confused:

The isuzu engine out of the P'up model is perfect in every way.



#31 Ross

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 10:11 PM


... he and Henry Ford worked making some alternitive fuels tword the end or shortly after WWII ...


He also made some car panels (fenders etc. i think) out of a hemp based composite around the same time. buisy man!

#32 FlyB0y

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Posted 18 March 2005 - 10:32 AM

yep! GWC was an amazingly humble man also ... he refused a 6 figure salary (remember this is in the late 40's early 50's!!!) to work full time with ford developing alternitive fuels such as diesel fuel from soy beans, he didn't want to leave the college where he taught and also the work-shops he did for farmers to teach them to rotate their crops so that the soil wouldn't be ruined by just raising cotton all the time. I think his salary at the time from the college was room, board and $1900 a year!!!!

He also made some car panels (fenders etc. i think) out of a hemp based composite around the same time. buisy man!


On annother note, look at the kewl biodiesel site I found:

http://www.metaeffic...ives/biodiesel/

#33 subiemech85

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Posted 19 March 2005 - 03:59 AM

1. don't go blaming ford for the international powerstroke
2. zamboni uses a vw propane engine, similar platform as the 1.6 diesel, and may offer a pathyway for finding a transmission
3. the turbo diesel is different in that it has a turbo, and piston cooling jets, and a fuel pump with an aneroid, and higher NOP nozzles

4. the 1.8 gas and the 1.6 diesel share the same stroke

5. engine code ME 52 hp @ 4800 71 ftlbs @ 2500

6. engine code MF 68 hp @ 4500 98 ftlbs @ 2500 turbo

7. the 1.9 can be made to run on a mechanical fuel system

8. the vw toureag makes about 580 ftlbs TORQUE!!

9. how can I squeeze more power out of the 1.6 na diesel?

10. the 85 jetta 1.6 is my DD :D

#34 FlyB0y

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Posted 19 March 2005 - 10:21 PM

1. don't go blaming ford for the international powerstroke

2. zamboni uses a vw propane engine, similar platform as the 1.6 diesel, and may offer a pathyway for finding a transmission
3. the turbo diesel is different in that it has a turbo, and piston cooling jets, and a fuel pump with an aneroid, and higher NOP nozzles

4. the 1.8 gas and the 1.6 diesel share the same stroke

5. engine code ME 52 hp @ 4800 71 ftlbs @ 2500

6. engine code MF 68 hp @ 4500 98 ftlbs @ 2500 turbo

7. the 1.9 can be made to run on a mechanical fuel system

8. the vw toureag makes about 580 ftlbs TORQUE!!

9. how can I squeeze more power out of the 1.6 na diesel?

10. the 85 jetta 1.6 is my DD :D


Thanks for all the info!! :bow:

I'm beginning to think I should just find an Isuzu Pup with a 2.2 NA diesel in the near future, and wait on doing a transplant to my brat ... once I do that, the brat will become strictly a play toy and I can lift it and all that good stuff :burnout:

But, eventually, I plan on making all my own biodiesel and transplanting a diesel into the brat and NEVER paying for pump gas again :drunk:

#35 GLCraig

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Posted 20 March 2005 - 12:47 AM

You know, tossing a diesel in a sub sound like fun, but with diesel being $0.20 to $0.50 more a gallon then bottom grade unleaded locally, are you sure you want to do that?

#36 FlyB0y

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Posted 20 March 2005 - 12:54 AM

check out that biodiesel site I posted earlier in this thread ... you can make it yourself and the cost is about $ 0.50 - $ 0.60 per gallon to make it!!:banana: :banana:

it's made from 3 ingrediants ... lye, methanol and vegitable oil :burnout:
these different ingrediants are used at differant parts of the refining process to make a superior diesel to what you buy at the pump :cool:

#37 Crazymike

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 03:41 PM

eletric_monk and I have looked at trying to make a diesel out of a ea81...all of it is theroy right now. but we may try to make a bench one soon.

#38 FlyB0y

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 05:59 PM

sounds good mike, I have checked out an old thread on this subject and there is annother engine that is promising, but very pricey here's the link:

http://www.dair.co.uk/

there is someone else also working on a ea-81 diesel conversion too:

http://groups.yahoo....b/message/30775

let us know how it works out! btw ... the diesel aircraft engine has a 15:1 CR, and has a very interesting 4 piston yet only 2 cylinders ... some sort of 2 stroke diesel that has 2 pistons in one cyl ... very interesting design

#39 Hondasucks

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 07:30 PM

The last VW Diesel for fryer-oil-use is the 1,6 Turbo Diesel with 70HP from the Golf3/Transporter TD.The modern TDIs are not able to run with selfmade diesel/oil.

If you have questions, feel free to ask. 75% of the cars here are Diesel powered.

Lukas


I see a BULL#*$* FLAG!!! I personally know someone who drove a 2002 Bug TDI from one coast to the other on VEGETABLE OIL! *edit* just noticed Lukas is from Europe, and their engines might be different from ours. I know they run a lower-sulfur fuel over there that might be it...

#40 baccaruda

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 08:12 PM

I think it would be far easier to swap in a diesel engine than to reengineer a subaru engine to run on diesel. a 150HP Cummins would go nicely in a lifted EA82 wagon with an RX transmission, such as mine. (OK, lift hasn't arrived yet :P)
I suppose I should wait and see how my EJ swap goes before getting this far ahead of myself? but I'd toss a subaru block out in a *second* to run my car on biodiesel. or better yet, TURBO biodiesel: http://www.cumminsno...mins/Trucks.asp
we've also been over "is it still a subaru?" many times before and the answer is officially "who cares?"
Subaru isn't paying anyone here to wave a flag as far as i know. people can call their own cars whatever they want. If I put a biodiesel engine in my subaru it will still handle the same and have the same driveline capabilities, and I'll call it the same thing I do now: "my brat" or "my wagon."

#41 RavenTBK

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 10:55 PM

The only real issue with swapping in a diesel that I can see would be the weight.

Since isuzu was mentioned above.. here's what I found. A comparable engine weighs 524 pounds! An EA81 weighs what.. 150? Thats a huge difference. See link:
http://www.isuzuengi...ucts_4jb1_i.htm

And according to this page, other than the huge prices they want for blocks, this page says the engines weigh around 350 pounds. Gaining 200 pounds for 53hp and 78# of torque.. When you add up *everything*, I dont think the total fuel savings would be that much. You'd have a heavier roo, with even less power to work with to move it along.. which adds up to greater fuel consumption to make up for it. *shrugs* Its a cool idea nonetheless.
1.6 litre VW diesels:
http://www.autoshopp...eselengine.html

<-R->

#42 FlyB0y

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 03:57 PM

I don't have the specs yet for the Isuzu diesel engines found in the pup or trooper, but they can't be the same as the industrial use engines, and they seem to be quite rare, so atm the most viable engine for such a swap seems to be a 1.6L VW diesel, but they seem to be pretty tame in their stock form, and I don't know how much truth there is in it, but I have heard of bolt-on type mods that increase their performance considerably. And there are also the turbo models of these engines, but they seem to be too rare to be practical.

#43 NanoSoob

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 07:21 PM

I see a BULL#*$* FLAG!!! I personally know someone who drove a 2002 Bug TDI from one coast to the other on VEGETABLE OIL! *edit* just noticed Lukas is from Europe, and their engines might be different from ours. I know they run a lower-sulfur fuel over there that might be it...


The VW diesel engines in Europe are newer technology than the ones in the U.S., although I don't know exactly how many years ahead they are. They have been using Pumpe Duse engines for a few years more than in the U.S. (we just got them with the 2004 model year), and the P.D. engine might not be suitable for biodiesel use (there is still debate). The P.D. engine produces higher injection pressure than the older TDI engine and much higher than the old IDI engines...

Here is the biodiesel FAQ from Fred's TDIclub: http://forums.tdiclu...0&page=0#776687

As far as turbos for offroading: I don't have any experience with the older VW diesels, but the '99-'03 TDI engines spool the turbo at about 1200 rpm and max torque is produced at 1800 rpm.

If anyone manages to implant a diesel in a Subaru I'll be a happy man. I bought a VW diesel for the mileage, but I truly miss driving my subaru everyday (though I do get to drive it on the weekends).

~NanoSoob

#44 Ross

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 05:49 PM

How about this diesel engine?

You may need a slight suspension upgrade with it....
http://www.bath.ac.uk/%7Eccsshb/12cyl/

#45 erik litchy

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 06:07 PM

if someone wants to import a cargo contailer full of the JDM diesel engines that came in subarus id definalty be in for a group buy.

#46 82bratavenger

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Posted 22 April 2005 - 12:28 AM

Before anyone gets too carried away making their own bio-disel you might want to look at your states tax laws on fuel. There was a guy here in my home area that was making his own and the state went after him for fuel taxes. Maybe he just talked to too many people and should have just kept it to him self. I think it is a geat idea myself but just giving a heads-up.

#47 Tbird Man

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Posted 09 June 2005 - 04:57 AM

How about this diesel engine?

You may need a slight suspension upgrade with it....
http://www.bath.ac.uk/%7Eccsshb/12cyl/


heh, talk about bolting a car to an engine, that thing is over 3 stories tall. and I think 5,608,312ft/lbs of torque at 102 rpm might be a bit much for your stock tranny.

#48 LPGsuperchargedBrumby

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 05:52 AM

heh, talk about bolting a car to an engine, that thing is over 3 stories tall. and I think 5,608,312ft/lbs of torque at 102 rpm might be a bit much for your stock tranny.


but think of the wheelspin on a set of stock 13" tyres............... :burnout:

#49 Tbird Man

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 03:56 PM

but think of the wheelspin on a set of stock 13" tyres............... :burnout:


at 102 rpm you wouldent get much wheelspin...but you could pull an office building.

#50 Zefy

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 09:08 PM

but you could pull an office building.



or a city block...

just think of the sound system that would acompany it!:lol:

oh ya its got a 2 120" subs with 50,000,000 watts rms...

ok i'm thinking to much...

you think it would fit between the wheel wells?




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