What's the difference with the engines?

[Organized_Confusion]

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32388

 

Okay, I started the thread above cause I am looking into buying a Subaru for the first time. Today I have been reading up on the types of problems people have been having on some of the models. I read where the Forester 2.5L had internal head gasket problems, but only in 98 and 99. Then I read that the 00-02 were having external head gasket issues. Since the one I am looking at is an 03, should I expect the same type of issues as the previous years?

 

I also read about how the 2.2L in the 90s was a very realiable engine. Is that the same one they used in the Outback Sport? And is it really that good?

 

I could go on and on with questions since I am new to Subaru, but I don't have that much time, nor do I want to take away all of yours.

 

Any advice, knowledge, experiences with these problems, etc... would be a great help. Thank you in advance.

[adwolf1]

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32388

 

 

 

I also read about how the 2.2L in the 90s was a very realiable engine. Is that the same one they used in the Outback Sport? And is it really that good?

 

 

I've got a 96 legacy with the 2.2, and an 03 with the 2.5.

 

The 96 is (obviously) 10 years old, 100k+ miles, and the engine is as close to bulletproof as I can imagine. I've just done the routine maint. on it, and it's been fine (amazingly, still no oil leaks).

 

I can't speak to the reliability of the 2.5 since mine is so new, but the difference in general that i can perceive:

 

* the 2.2 is less refined/more raucus, especially when you rev it

* the 2.2 makes less power

* my legacy with the 2.2 gets significantly better milage (i still get about 30mpg on the highway, not bad for a car with AWD)

 

the newer legacies (ie, the current & the previous generation) with the 2.5's are much more refined, polished cars.

 

That said, it seems to be common opinion that the mid-90's vintage (gen-II, i believe) were more durable, even though they look/felt cheap on the inside relative to the new cars.

 

Time will tell i guess! I don't plan on getting rid of my 96 until the wheels fall off.

[Geoff4130]

I have a 2.5L in mine and it is very good. At around 70,000 miles or so I had to get the 5 cam seals replaced cause they were shot. Got the timing belt replaced at the same time. Only cost $500 at a place that works on only Subarus and Volvos. It makes some odd ticking noise when it's cold, but they said it's nothing to worry about.

 

My $.02

[Gnuman]

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32388

 

Okay, I started the thread above cause I am looking into buying a Subaru for the first time. Today I have been reading up on the types of problems people have been having on some of the models. I read where the Forester 2.5L had internal head gasket problems, but only in 98 and 99. Then I read that the 00-02 were having external head gasket issues. Since the one I am looking at is an 03, should I expect the same type of issues as the previous years?

 

I also read about how the 2.2L in the 90s was a very realiable engine. Is that the same one they used in the Outback Sport? And is it really that good?

 

I could go on and on with questions since I am new to Subaru, but I don't have that much time, nor do I want to take away all of yours.

 

Any advice, knowledge, experiences with these problems, etc... would be a great help. Thank you in advance.

 

OK, the 2.5L engines have gone through three revisions since they were introduced: Phase I engines had an internal head gasket leak problem where the coolant would start leaking into the combustion chanber. Phase II engines had an external coolant leak, with a lower rate of incidence than the problem with the Phase I (which makes sense, as with an external leak there is not the combustion pressures to contend with). The jury is still out on the Phase III 2.5L engines as they are too new to begin having problems.

The first gen Legacies used the EJ22 (2.2l) engine, and it was all but bulletproof, with the vast majority going well over 200K miles with no major repairs. in '97 Subaru redesigned the EJ22 to give a bit more power, and boost the gas milage a bit. The downside of this redesign was that they turned a "non-interference" engine into an "interference" engine, in that if tbe cam timing belt broke, the valves could come into contact with the moving pistons (interference) causing major damage to the engine. This lowers reliability a small bit, in that you have to watch the replacement interval of the timing belt a bit more closely on these engines (60K miles on federal models, 105K on CA models) to prevent this type of problem. What year Outback sport are you talking about? The Outback is based on the legacy platform, while the Outback Sport is based on the Imprezza platform (more of a high performance platform than the Legacy which is designed as a family car). In an earlier thread, you asked how the H4 form factor compares to an "inline 4". The H4 and H6 form factors are called Boxer engines, and have been in use since WWII (before both of our times), and they are used in all sorts of vehicles, with a proven track record of reliability across the board. "Bottom end" (crank and piston rod bearing) problems are very rare in this engine, and it delivers a lot of smooth power per liter compared to (for instance) the "inline" or "V" engines that you are comparing them to. On the other hand, I have only seen them in a standard mounting (with the transmission behind them) and not in a "transverse" mounting (with the transmission on the left or right when viewed from the front of the car). In that configuration (which translates literally to "mounted sideways") they would be very dificult to work on as the rear facing head and associated parts (plugs and such) would be very hard to get at.

 

If that is a bit long winded, I'm sorry. I just wanted you to have as much info as you could get to make your decisions with. . .

[Organized_Confusion]

I was actually looking at a 2000 Outback Sport (Impreza line I believe). It's the smaller one with a small hood scoop on it. It has 45,000 miles on it now with a 2.2L, auto. Going price is 11,800, but I will have to add about 3000 to the loan since these cheap domestic vehicles (trading in an 02 Cavalier for 3000, I owe 6000 on it) can't hold their value for more than....well they can't...period. I assume that even if I took out a 5 or 6 year loan on this I would be better off in the long run than with this American POS.

[Setright]

The EJ22 is all it's hyped up to be. Only downside is that it could have been more powerful. But that's probably why it's so reliable, it's not stressed too far.

[Gnuman]

I was actually looking at a 2000 Outback Sport (Impreza line I believe). It's the smaller one with a small hood scoop on it. It has 45,000 miles on it now with a 2.2L, auto. Going price is 11,800, but I will have to add about 3000 to the loan since these cheap domestic vehicles (trading in an 02 Cavalier for 3000, I owe 6000 on it) can't hold their value for more than....well they can't...period. I assume that even if I took out a 5 or 6 year loan on this I would be better off in the long run than with this American POS.

 

That will be a late model EJ22. One notch less reliable than the earlier ones (in a late model, if you loose your timing belt, you will have an expensive engine repair. In the earlier ones the valves do not travel into the area that the pistons travel into, so this does not happen)

[Chef]

I wouldn't trade in your Cavalier if you're losing $3000 on it! Definitely go for a private sale. That dealer is just going to turn around and sell it for 1.5X what you were paid for it. You could get nearly that much through private sale.

 

Also, 12k USD sounds a bit high to me for something 5 years old. I'd be ready to haggle more.

 

 

I was actually looking at a 2000 Outback Sport (Impreza line I believe). It's the smaller one with a small hood scoop on it. It has 45,000 miles on it now with a 2.2L, auto. Going price is 11,800, but I will have to add about 3000 to the loan since these cheap domestic vehicles (trading in an 02 Cavalier for 3000, I owe 6000 on it) can't hold their value for more than....well they can't...period. I assume that even if I took out a 5 or 6 year loan on this I would be better off in the long run than with this American POS.

[Organized_Confusion]

Well i went ahead and got the Subaru. I love it too. I get the same gas mileage, don't have to shift all the time, got PW,PL, have more power and acceleration, have all the wheels working instead of just 2, new set of tires (winter ones), about 32,000 less miles than the Chevy, 4 doors instead of two, more storage ability, high value, etc....I could go on and on about what I like now compared to before the sale. I am very pleased with it so far......

 

So what's the deal with the timing belt? How often should I change it...etc...? Thanks for the heads up on that.