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excessive vibration after tranny swap


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30 replies to this topic

#1 northguy

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 12:51 PM

I just did the tranny swap from a 4 spd d/r to a 5 spd d/r and have a couple of concerns. Was wondering if I'm wigging out over nothing.
1. All gears seem to have a loud whine to them. (Turning the radi up doesn't seem to help).
2. I get all sorts of vibration after the swap that wasn't present beforehand. The mirrors shake, the radio rattles, the doorpanel makes noises....
3. After I get on the highway after the car warms up, there is a pronounced and sudden surge in vibration at about 50 to 60 mph that then doesn't go away while driving, even after I decelerate to first gear.
4. After I park the car in the garage, I can hear noises of a stress release come from the tranny. There is a noticable series of clunks over a half hour period of time.
I was wondering if any of you have noticed such symptoms and might have solutions, or is this to be expected. I don't believe we did anything out of the ordinary in the installation process. Any feedback is appreciated.

#2 85Sub4WD

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 01:30 PM

This may be a stupid question (probably is) but what kind of shape is your tranny oil in? I knew a guy who had the same sort of problem (but non-soob) - and found his tranny had almost no oil in it (he did a clutch job, and did not check oil level afterward) - just a thought, especially as the popping noise afterwards sounds like heat stress - hope it gets fixed!!

#3 Qman

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 01:40 PM

Oil level and possible bad ujoint. Did you know the history of this trans?

#4 edrach

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 01:59 PM

Matt, I was one of the first to do the swap with Jerry's kit (as a matter of fact we did it at his place). Driving home I noticed more vibration than with the 4 speed version. After eliminating all the likely culprits, the conclusion was I had put in a bad tranny (from PAP). I replaced the tranny after about 3 months....it was my tranny that was bad. The replacement worked much better. Hopefully you have better luck than I.

With the new tranny in place, I made two more modifications that helps "gild the lily" as it were. I ultimately installed a one piece drive shaft because the center bearing mounting on the Brat's chassis wasn't the most secure looking piece of sheet metal in the car. The new driveshaft was noticeably better than the two piece driveshaft.

Lastly, there was a resonance that occurred right around 2800 rpm (cruising speed as it were, so it was quite annoying). Since the 5 speed tranny has a slightly different location for the support of the exhaust system near its center, I just left it hanging without support there. This created a long piece of exhaust pipe supported at the front at the end of the y-pipe and in the rear by the muffler hanger. This resonated quite badly; as a matter of fact my wife hated riding in the car at highway speeds since it really was too loud for her. After a few months of that I finally fabbed a piece so I could support the exhaust in the center firmly; that doubled the resonant frequency so it became much quieter during highway driving.

I hope this helps. When the 5 speed conversion works properly, it is so much nicer than the original. It should certainly not be worse.

I just did the tranny swap from a 4 spd d/r to a 5 spd d/r and have a couple of concerns. Was wondering if I'm wigging out over nothing.
1. All gears seem to have a loud whine to them. (Turning the radi up doesn't seem to help).
2. I get all sorts of vibration after the swap that wasn't present beforehand. The mirrors shake, the radio rattles, the doorpanel makes noises....
3. After I get on the highway after the car warms up, there is a pronounced and sudden surge in vibration at about 50 to 60 mph that then doesn't go away while driving, even after I decelerate to first gear.
4. After I park the car in the garage, I can hear noises of a stress release come from the tranny. There is a noticable series of clunks over a half hour period of time.
I was wondering if any of you have noticed such symptoms and might have solutions, or is this to be expected. I don't believe we did anything out of the ordinary in the installation process. Any feedback is appreciated.



#5 northguy

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 02:54 PM

Oil level is full and quality is new. Replaced fresh with the tranny.


Installed a 1 piece driveshaft (after reading a prompt from Ed) with greasable joints. It should not be the culprit.

Don't know the history other than it was working before I put it in. I hate to take it back out, find another one only to have that one do the same thing.

It shouldn't be motor mounts (didn't happen before the swap) or tranny mounts - Jerry's kit came complete with mounts that looked good.

Any other ideas are appreciated before I look at swapping this one out.

#6 CHIM

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 03:23 PM

i Just did my tranny swap about 2 weeks ago, i noticed ALOT of harmonic vibration, Turns out it was my exhaust as well.


I have a little more gear whine that my 4 speed but not an unhealthy amount.

Might a small part of the tranny be rubbing on your floor pan, i had to cut part of my floor pan out to make the tranny fir without rubbing.

~CHIM~

#7 northguy

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 03:59 PM

I have gear whine in all 5 gears, but no rubbing. The vibration doesn't seem to be harmonic. It's a definite shake.

#8 TomRhere

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 06:21 PM

Thoughts at large;

Driveshaft to long, causing bind on output shaft of tranny.

Driveshaft to short, allowing the splines to wobble on the output shaft of the tranny.
With driveshaft bottomed out into the tranny, you should have about an inch, but no more, of free-space between rear U-joint and rear diff flange.

Driveshaft out of balance, bent.

If this was a custom built driveshaft, maybe they didn't get the yokes for the U-joints in-line with each other, that definetly will cause a vibration. Had a rookie do that to me once, the shop made it right though.

Try pulling driveshaft and driving around with out it in, see if it's still there. Would even try shifting into 4WD just to check.

Check engine to bellhousing mating surface area, make sure it is flush all the way around. Any foreign debri between tranny and bell housing would put bind on input shaft of tranny.

Lastly;
Are you sure you guys put the pilot bearing in? :-\ :eek: Been known to happen.

#9 northguy

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 06:43 PM

Driveshaft is skookum. It was done to specs and balanced by a top notch shop here. Pilot bearing is in. But I sure appreciate the ideas. I just want to rule out (what might be the obvious) problems before I have to replace the tranny again.

#10 Craven

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 07:36 PM

Did you drive the car the trans. came out of? Or did you just run it threw the gears on the bench?

#11 northguy

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 08:13 PM

Neither. Just took delivery of it. And I don't lay any blame with anyone over that (if indeed the tranny is bad) that happens sometimes. I'm just looking for viable options to the problem before I decide to swap it out.

#12 Craven

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 08:46 PM

Was the trans. dry when you got it or if it had grease in it, what did it look like? Was there any metal or junk on the drain plug? Now that you have run it, pull the drain plug and check it. Could be a bad bearing in the trans..

#13 northguy

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 09:00 PM

Tranny oil was black as midnight in January up here. There wasn't any debris that I took note of. There very well could be a bad bearing or ??? with the vibration and whine. Thanks for the thoughts.

#14 Craven

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 09:47 PM

BLACK Not a good sign.

#15 bratsrus1

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 10:43 PM

Hi Matt This is Jerry, did you line up the dots on the flywheel and the pressure plate? If you didn't do that it will vibrate and the whine that you hear in all gears tells me that the input shaft bearing is bad. To replace that bearing you have to split the tranny. Getting back to first question the flywheel has a dot on the ring gear teeth and the pressure plate has a small circle on it have to be line up. Thanks Jerry

#16 Craven

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 01:13 AM

Must have got lucky with my clutch, just bolted the P/P on where it fell. Didn't know you had to index the thing. No shacks or vibs.

#17 85Sub4WD

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 02:30 AM

Hi Matt This is Jerry, did you line up the dots on the flywheel and the pressure plate? If you didn't do that it will vibrate and the whine that you hear in all gears tells me that the input shaft bearing is bad. To replace that bearing you have to split the tranny. Getting back to first question the flywheel has a dot on the ring gear teeth and the pressure plate has a small circle on it have to be line up.

I'm sorry to have to contradict you, but the 1985 FSM says specifically to have the "O"s AT LEAST 120-degrees apart when installing the clutch as they indicate "directions of residual unbalence" - this refers to the 5-speed D/R tranny - I have not had to do a Soob clutch yet, but in the MG I did, I had to do the same sort of seperation between "O"s - never had any vibration problems in that (though we did lose the rear axle in it once, but that is a different story :) )

It also says to note the position of the front/rear side of clutch disc, and that it must be installed with proper orientation, and to tighten (and torque) clutch cover bolts in a crisscross fassion

#18 northguy

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 11:53 PM

I had a very competent mechanic install the clutch. I am positive it's in properly. Any other ideas? I sure appreciate all of the help so far.

#19 Snowman

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 09:26 PM

Hmmm, I missed this thread for a while. I'm trying to think of things that could be going on here.....

Do you get the weirdness in neutral as well? How about with the clutch disengaged, either in gear or in neutral?

Also, does it accompany changes in engine speed, vehicle speed, or both?

I suppose the PP could be misaligned on the flywheel...I've done those several times before, but maybe I just got lucky in the past.

As far as the tranny itself, I drove the donor car about 30 miles, and didn't really notice anything with the transmission, but I suppose that something could be awry in there. The oil was pretty dark but didn't have any chunks in it. I suppose it's possible that there is some crap in there that's causing problems. You could try draining out a quart of oil and replacing it with ATF for a little while, before changing the oil out again.

The #3 and #4 issues are very strange indeed. I'm not really sure what to make of those.

Let me know if there's anything I can help out with. I am free this coming weekend and on most weeknights until I leave. If it turns out that the tranny needs to be swapped, I'll help you out with it.

#20 torxxx

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 09:38 PM

I doubt its the pressure plate. I've done 10 clutch swaps this winter, and never paid attention to the 120 degrees apart deal. All 10 clutches worked, customers never complained.

As for the oil bein black, the tranny is most likely shot. I just did a S/R 5 speed swap last week, tranny has black oil in it and it vibrated and shook pretty bad. The main bearings were toast causing the vibration.

Matt - Jon is comin up here hopefully this weekend. I can send that tranny down with him I think if you are gonna end up needing it. You got my cell phone number, call me and let me know

#21 northguy

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 09:47 PM

Torxxx, if you have a 5spd d/r that's in decent shape, I'd sure appreciate it if you sent it back with Jon. If you're headed down this way sometime in the near future, you could bring it then also. The tranny I have in now will just have to stay put for the time being. I don't have the time to yank it and replace it. That'll probably happen over the summer when I have more time. Let me know what you'd like as a swap for the tranny.


Kelly, thanks for the offer and the ideas. I've noticed I get an extra shake at 56 mph and above. It must be a police conspiracy thing so I don't go speeding around.:lol:

#22 torxxx

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 10:13 PM

Alright sounds good... I'll see what I can do.

As for the swap, I'd like a 22-26 year old blonde woman prefferable over 5'8", athletic and good looking. she also has to like subarus and snowmachining.

:lol:

I got a dual range tranny that should be in good shape. I drove the car before we parted it. It was a daily driver. had 150k on it. I'll check the oil color tommorow and let you know.

#23 Snowman

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 12:32 AM

Man, that sucks that the tranny crapped out. It seemed okay when I last used it, but I guess that's not the case. I feel pretty about that. If you can get the tranny here before I leave, I will make time to do the swap for you (the only thing I'd really need help with is lifting the new one in place). I'll call you tomorrow evening and we can sort it out.

#24 edrach

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 02:23 AM

Matt, re-reading your post again and #3 and #4 are most distressing as Kelly mentioned. Is there any possibility that the car might be in 4WD mode and you don't realize it? Certainly not anything I've heard of before, but #4 started me thinking. The other thought I have doesn't quite fit the symtoms, but a bad inner joint on a front axle can masquerade as quite a number of things.....and be so bad as to make me believe the transmission was about to fall out; but with a bad DOJ the vibration ceases suddenly on trailing throttle and returns when you accelerate again. Very mysterious. Good luck with this....swapping trannys is such a pain.

I just did the tranny swap from a 4 spd d/r to a 5 spd d/r and have a couple of concerns. Was wondering if I'm wigging out over nothing.
1. All gears seem to have a loud whine to them. (Turning the radi up doesn't seem to help).
2. I get all sorts of vibration after the swap that wasn't present beforehand. The mirrors shake, the radio rattles, the doorpanel makes noises....
3. After I get on the highway after the car warms up, there is a pronounced and sudden surge in vibration at about 50 to 60 mph that then doesn't go away while driving, even after I decelerate to first gear.
4. After I park the car in the garage, I can hear noises of a stress release come from the tranny. There is a noticable series of clunks over a half hour period of time.
I was wondering if any of you have noticed such symptoms and might have solutions, or is this to be expected. I don't believe we did anything out of the ordinary in the installation process. Any feedback is appreciated.



#25 torxxx

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 02:53 AM

Matt - I'll be coming through that way around the end of May. I can come down and help swap em out.... just though I'd mention that.




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