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I bent my pitch stopper.. again!


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21 replies to this topic

#1 RavenTBK

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 09:14 AM

I'm just curious as to how often of an occurence this is in the offroading world.

I was tooling around in the forest yesterday in FWD.. came upon one of the harsher sugar sand inclines. I decided to keep it in FWD and see how far I could go. Easy on the throttle.. wheelspin kept at a minimum to avoid being buried in the sand. About halfway up, I encountered some mad wheelhop that came up to severe pretty damn quick. I stopped and dropped it into 4low just to finish the rise.

On the way out, 2nd and 4th would pop out on acceleration. I also noticed the shifter would rise and fall in its hole. I expected busted tranny mounts, but I found that I had bent my pitch stopper about 20* and tore through the upper bushing.

This afternoon I'm going to try to bend it back straight with the vise, and just install a solid bushing up top.

Has anyody else done something similar? I would've thought a suspension part or engine/tranny mount would've failed before the forces would get so bad it would cause the pitch stopper to fold up. :confused:

#2 archemitis

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 10:42 PM

if you go solid on part of the engine mount, get to goin solid on whe whole thing. one solid, and some rubber, can end up tearing the rubber ones you have left. but anything in a pinch.

my first subaru had a bent one for years. i never even knew it. i bought the car crashed, and assumed it was like that. i think its still bent.... lol

i bent them and broke them all the time, back when i used them.

#3 RavenTBK

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 10:54 PM

This afternoon I used my Ford wrench (read: BFH) and the vise and tapped my stopper rod back straight. I also found a brass bushing that was the perfect size to sit in the upper hole with a large washer on the outside to keep it all in place. Looks and works a helluva lot better than it did before. :)

So I guess the lack of responses means that nobody has ever bent the crap out of their pitch stopper while offroading? Considering how easy it was for me to do, I'm surprised there wasnt a flood of responses. :-\

#4 RavenTBK

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 10:56 PM

I didnt think it took me that long to write that last post. :rolleyes:

#5 MorganM

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Posted 07 May 2005 - 10:32 AM

Wheel hop is evil >:| That's rough if you bent the pitch bar. Now that it's been bent and hammerd back I'd say it's not as strong as before. Honestly I'd cut the bar off the two ends and weld in a new one. Something thicker this time :brow:

When I had to lengthend mine after installing the lift kit. I had a thicker bar welded in at the proper length. Havent bent it yet.

#6 singletrack

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Posted 07 May 2005 - 01:28 PM

I've also bent mine, a result of stuffing the car into a rock.

#7 oddcomp

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Posted 07 May 2005 - 01:33 PM

sooo.. how needed is this doohicky on 95% street suby?

#8 RavenTBK

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Posted 07 May 2005 - 05:45 PM

sooo.. how needed is this doohicky on 95% street suby?

Moderate to high.

I'd say the pitch stopper is a required piece. Its what keeps the engine/tranny from pitching back and forth when you're in FWD. Since the output shafts are in the front of the transmission, its like you stuck a pencil through a banana, and twisted it back and forth.. the banana would want to turn with the pencil.

In regular RWD vehicles, the torque is distributed side to side, the prop shaft being the pencil in the banana. Where in FWD vehicles, its front to back.

In newer models, the pitch stopper is known as the "dogbone", where it serves the exact same function. Keeping the engine/tranny from excessive movement as a result of torque.

:)

#9 bushbasher

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Posted 07 May 2005 - 11:26 PM

Well I dont think its so important, you've already got the engine mounts in the front, and tranny mounts spaced pretty far back. Long term it might lead to more wear on the rest of the mounts and a bit more engine movement, but I doubt anything serious would happen. On a regular transverse fwd its a different story though because the engine mounts are all close to the axis the motor wants to twist.

#10 dragonwingsubaru

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 08:39 AM

well mine never had a chance to bend offroading i managed to bend mine up when i was pulling my motor after i bought the wagon., forgot to unbolt it and pull it completely offjust left mine bent though wonder if thats why mine is a pita to get outta 4 hi to get into 2wd sometimes. got another 1 in one of my parts boxes maybe i should dig it out and put it on an see

#11 mudrat79

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 10:33 AM

Not having the Pitch stopper will wear the engine tranny mounts quicker.....Also, You will get alot more transmission flop....meaning shifter flop.....

Normally, if I have to cut one to stretch it, I beef it up by sliding a Larger diameter Tube over the exhisting piece, weded proper they don't bend or break.......:)

If your gonna do it, do it right..... ;)

Later, John

#12 baccaruda

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 11:58 AM

and if your trans mounts are bad, then you eat inner CV boots faster.

#13 RavenTBK

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 12:04 AM

Normally, if I have to cut one to stretch it, I beef it up by sliding a Larger diameter Tube over the exhisting piece, weded proper they don't bend or break.......:)

Heh.. I need to take a picture of this one for ya then. Its the stock rod, cut in the middle, with a 6" bolt welded in the gap as an extension. It works.. but it was just amusing when I first saw it. :grin:

I was considering my options, and all I could come up with was completely fabbing up a new one, but the larger tube "sheath" is a good idea. I weld about as good as I dance.. which is not, so I'd probably get creative with some JB. :brow:

#14 oddcomp

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 09:58 AM

my twisted little theory ... since i did the spider intake swapover thingy
is knock outhe rubber bushings from each end
cut the rod off at each end
or is possible cut x amount out of the center
and thread the ends of what ever is left so you can install a turn buckle type of do-hicky <such a cool word do-hickey> then poof instant adjustable pitchy stopper thingy that you can actually adjust and preload it a smidge .... or unload it depending apon how you think it should work


eventually i will do this in the "new/used" suby but as long as i am pretty certaini can.. delay spending more money i do not have on it for now .. the better
since i am confusing myself right now.. <do not work in a low oxygen enviroment... it sucks>
i will quite while i am ... at least not behind

#15 MorganM

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 10:04 AM

Well I dont think its so important, you've already got the engine mounts in the front, and tranny mounts spaced pretty far back. Long term it might lead to more wear on the rest of the mounts and a bit more engine movement, but I doubt anything serious would happen. On a regular transverse fwd its a different story though because the engine mounts are all close to the axis the motor wants to twist.


But said mounts are all rubber mounts. Given how old most are on these old goats the mounts are usually good and broke-in if not worn out. I drove around with out my pitch bar for a week before I got it properly lengthend. Lots of real bad vibrations when trying to take off from a stop. Also lots of slop that mudrat has described.

I'm all about thining out the engine bay of unecessary crap. However I keep the pitch bar :drunk: If they get bent as described above; that tells me they are a part of structural integrity.

#16 s'ko

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 12:39 PM

Heh.. I need to take a picture of this one for ya then. Its the stock rod, cut in the middle, with a 6" bolt welded in the gap as an extension. It works.. but it was just amusing when I first saw it. :grin:

I was considering my options, and all I could come up with was completely fabbing up a new one, but the larger tube "sheath" is a good idea. I weld about as good as I dance.. which is not, so I'd probably get creative with some JB. :brow:


I doubt JBWeld would hold. Give the pieces and specs to a muffler shop and have them do it. I doubt it would cost you more than 10 bucks.

BW

#17 RavenTBK

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 06:39 PM

Well, I'm going to have to come up with something here soon. This afternoon's outing ended up bending it up even worse than before. The suby took the terrain just fine, but the pitch stopper wanted no part of it.

http://random.fjeer....agedump-070.jpg

You can see how bent up it decided to get. Also you can see the nifty bolt welded up in the middle to elongate the stopper bar. :)

After a bit of thought, I guess its all working how its supposed to. The stopper is keeping the engine/tranny from pitching, which has kept my mounts from tearing apart. The pitch stopper is the fuse in all this, instead of something else like I initially thought.

Either way, I'm going to have to be less agressive with my trail riding till I can get something figured out.

#18 s'ko

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 07:14 PM

That's pretty ghetto rigged.

Dude, give me the length and I'll weld you up one.
I have a day off next monday. Will be planning a bunch of errands.
Just pay for the shipping.

BW

#19 ballitch

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 11:10 PM

That is superior ghetto-fab skillz right there my friend. I say, if it connects car to motor, and it bends like that, you NEED to have it. subaru put it there for a darn good reason. Some 1/8'' wall, 1/2'' steel tubing would be just about indestructable for a pitch stopper.




~Josh~

#20 MorganM

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 08:56 AM

Cut off each end. Weld on a new larger diameter, properly lengthend, bar.

#21 RavenTBK

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 01:41 PM

Well, I'm doing an experiment now.

Since the bar folded, that tells me the issue is the upward pitch of the motor, and downward pitch of the tranny onto its mounts. It cant be the opposite, as that would straighten out the pitch bar and want to pull it out of its upper mounting place.

So.. with this knowledge, heres how my experiment is going to happen. I first reshaped (for the third time) the bar back to its original straightness.. and even a bit better than before. I then reinstalled the bar, but adjusted up. Up as in pulling up on the engine, pivoting the tranny mounts to near their base. With all the "free upwards play" (or downwards if you look at it from the tranny's point of view) removed from the engine, in theory, it shouldnt want to pivot upwards anymore and bend the bar again. The minimum of available downwards movement at the tranny mounts also come into play.. the tranny cant drop too much further, therefore the engine cant rise too much further. Which, again, in theory, will stop my pitch stopper from folding up like an accordion, and still hold things in place.

Okay, I know it sounds crazy.. but I'm a curious person. I like to learn and experiment. Either way, I will get a stronger bar made up, but this is just to pass the time till then. ;)

#22 archemitis

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 09:03 PM

ya, thats super ghetto.
i dont know why these damn things done come with the lift kit. when morganm told me he was having one made, i said... "isnt that a big part of the "kit"?"
seems like it would be better to send this peice along with the lift kit, than to see scrap welded/taped together. is there a big variation between lifted subarus, that prevents a common/generic length?

i dont run one, only because i run solid motor, and tranny mounts. and theres no room for one on my er27. or my 4 speed. otherwise runing without one is a pain for hookup(bouncing wheels on acceleration), and shifting.




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