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Timing belt question


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13 replies to this topic

#1 JeffS

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 09:55 AM

I'm doing a timing belt change on a 2000 2.5L engine out of a Legacy. The new timing belt I got from the dealership has marks on it so you can line it up with the two cam sprockets and the crank sprocket but the spacing between the marks does not match what the service manual calls out. The manual says there should be 44 teeth between crank and passenger's side cam but the new belt has 47; manual says 40.5 teeth between crank and driver's side cam but the new belt has 43.5. When I put the new belt on the crank and passenger's side cam, the belt marks lined up with the sprockets. I don't think I could install the belt around the idler pulley if I had a 44 tooth spacing.

Of course I took the old belt off without marking it becuase I figured I had a new one with marks on it. The old belt and the new belt are the same length and have the same tooth spacing and tooth count.

So, does anyone know if the manual is wrong or is the belt marking wrong? I'm leaning towards putting the new belt per the marks on it but I figured I should ask around as this is an interference engine and a mistake would be bad.

Thanks in advance!

#2 svxpert

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 11:07 AM

what manual are you using?

#3 Gnuman

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 01:38 PM

Also double check the count you got. I count three or four times to be sure I did not miss a tooth or skip one. . .

#4 JeffS

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 05:05 PM

what manual are you using?


What I have is supposed to be .pdf files of the factory Subaru manual. I have not seen an actual factory manual to verify this though.

#5 tomson1355

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 04:13 AM

Jeff, I'm not familiar with the timing on the SOHC, having done only the DOHC, but doesn't one of those tooth counts (the belt or the book) make the marks on the sprockets line up incorrectly? Aren't the sprockets supposed to be in a particular position, and wouldn't a difference of three teeth make it look obviously wrong?

Tom

#6 Gnuman

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 04:21 AM

What I have is supposed to be .pdf files of the factory Subaru manual. I have not seen an actual factory manual to verify this though.

From memory, the manual has the correct numbers (but I cannot find my Haynes, and the Chiltons does not have the tooth count (point for Haynes)). If it seems impossable that the belt would fit with those numbers, I can only ask "did you remember to compress the tensioner fully and lock it in place (with a small allen wrench or a drill bit) before putting the new belt on?" I have also never seen that tooth count on a marked belt. Check your counts.

#7 JeffS

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 05:17 PM

From memory, the manual has the correct numbers (but I cannot find my Haynes, and the Chiltons does not have the tooth count (point for Haynes)). If it seems impossable that the belt would fit with those numbers, I can only ask "did you remember to compress the tensioner fully and lock it in place (with a small allen wrench or a drill bit) before putting the new belt on?" I have also never seen that tooth count on a marked belt. Check your counts.


I only checked the belt fit on the side without the tensioner because I already compressed the tensioner and didn't want to have to re-compress it if the belt was incorrect. The marks on the pulleys and the marks on the belt did line up, so it seems the belt is correct.

I have double checked the tooth count and I keep getting the same number.

I guess my next plan is to install per the markings on the belt, un-compress the tensioner, and spin the engine by hand and listen for bad noises. Any reason that is a bad idea? Can I cause damage by rotating the crank by hand?

Thanks!

#8 Scottbaru

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 08:00 PM

I guess my next plan is to install per the markings on the belt, un-compress the tensioner, and spin the engine by hand and listen for bad noises. Any reason that is a bad idea? Can I cause damage by rotating the crank by hand?

As long as the cams are turning in synch with the crank, the pistons shouldn't hit and damage the valves.

#9 ShawnW

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 08:11 PM

Counting teeth isn't necessary. Point the crank so the crank gear mark lines up at 12 o clock and the key is down, point the two cams so the arrow points toward 2 o clock and the mark at noon points at the inner plastic marker. Then put the belt on with the dotted line at the crank 12 o clock, and the solids at the cam 12 o clock mark. Get this all lined up and email me a photo if you want me to verify its right.

#10 Gnuman

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 08:49 PM

I only checked the belt fit on the side without the tensioner because I already compressed the tensioner and didn't want to have to re-compress it if the belt was incorrect. The marks on the pulleys and the marks on the belt did line up, so it seems the belt is correct.

I have double checked the tooth count and I keep getting the same number.

I guess my next plan is to install per the markings on the belt, un-compress the tensioner, and spin the engine by hand and listen for bad noises. Any reason that is a bad idea? Can I cause damage by rotating the crank by hand?

Thanks!


That is odd. Every belt I have gotten had the same numbers as the Haynes manual, which IIRC are the same ones you quoted. Turning by hand should not cause any problems as I don't think you generate enough force to cause damage to the engine by hand (this is why turning by hand is done as a matter of fact). If you can go two revs (on the cams) without hearing any kind of bad sounds, I would say you are OK. Each rev ov the engine equals a rev of the engine, so if you can go around twice, you will know there are no surprises in store for you.

#11 BigMattyD

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 11:49 AM

Here is an interesting link to some timing belt info.

http://endwrench.com...BeltEWWin05.pdf

The tooth counts you describe sound more to me like the 2.2 SOHC engine that a 2.5.
Maybe in 2000, they made an SOHC 2.5L engine, but I thought the 2.2s were SOHC, and the 2.5s are DOHC.


Is the belt an OEM or aftermarket belt? On my 2.2L engine, I had no problems lining up the teeth with an OEM belt.

Matt D

#12 TheBigJ

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 12:21 AM

I just did this myself, here is what you are looking for:

the 2.2L engine has 44 tooth on the passenger side and 40.5 teeth on the driver side

the 2.5L DOHC has 54.5 teeth on pass. and 51 teeth on driver side.

This info is from the Haynes manual for "1990 to 1998 Legacy" Dunno if they have changed it for the 2.5 liter engine since 98, but I would say that the 44/40.5 refers to the 2.2L only.

#13 f15xxx

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 06:58 PM

i did a cam belt r&r on my 99 leg l sedan 2.2 5MT and the tooth count was different than that in the haynes manual you quoted. so long as the belt marks line up with the cams and crank in the correct position you will be ok. if it really matters to you, i could pull out my notes from the job to get you the tooth count that i came up with. as i recall, it was somewhat different from haynes but not much. post if you really need this info.

#14 jman11

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 08:21 AM

Sorry to bring up this old thread, but I just searched and found this; I have the exact same issue. The belt I ordered has 47/43.5 teeth and the manual (the factory subaru one) calls for 44/40.5 teeth. The OEM belt I ordered has the markings for 47/43.5.

I've also installed it at 47/43.5 and everything lines up perfectly, I haven't run the engine yet; I'm still finishing. I also manually cranked the engine through a few revolutions and I didn't hear anything hit.

I'm posting this just to let everyone know that the documentation out there looks wrong.

This is with a 2000 subaru impreza RS.




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