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Thats it, I've had it! Auto to Manual Swap Time!


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28 replies to this topic

#1 Steveman09

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 10:07 PM

Ok so as you all know I just recently got my GL-10 up and running with the fresh new performance built motor (EA82-T) And it has the 3AT 4WD Single Range Tranny in it with 60k on it. Well I've got over 650miles on the new engine so I've just started really getting on it and putting it through its paces (I couldn't wait any longer) :) Well I'm just plain sick and tired of the Automatic tranny and I can't live with the lag and horrible gear ratios anymore! The engine has tons of power but it just takes way to long to get to it with the crappy endless gears, the result is the car is only fast from above a 40mph roll. The sloppy and silky smooth 1-2shift just lags so much during a race with a Civic 5-speed from a dead stop I lost 3 car lengths due to the 1-2 shift!!!!

It's time to swap this baby to a 5-speed dual range tranny, and I'm ready to do it, I've contacted a guy I do allot of used soobie biz with and he said he's got a 5-speed Manual 4WD Dual Range Tranny (3.70ratio) for $150 with around 60,000miles on it. What I need to know is this :

1. Will my stock Front Axels work?
2. What about the driveshaft
3. Mounts?
4. Anything else I need to know?

I allready have the whole pedal assembly, clutch cable, shifter, shift linkage.

#2 pyromanic

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 11:28 PM

When I swapped to DR 5 sp my axles were the same, but I don't know with yours. I think it might be differnt. sombody will know for sure

But nope on the driveline, you need another complete driveline from a manual rig. Also need a longer speedo cable, and the back crossmember for the manual.

I can't think of anything else right now. OH, I had to change the rear diff. Which one is in there now?



Ok so as you all know I just recently got my GL-10 up and running with the fresh new performance built motor (EA82-T) And it has the 3AT 4WD Single Range Tranny in it with 60k on it. Well I've got over 650miles on the new engine so I've just started really getting on it and putting it through its paces (I couldn't wait any longer) :) Well I'm just plain sick and tired of the Automatic tranny and I can't live with the lag and horrible gear ratios anymore! The engine has tons of power but it just takes way to long to get to it with the crappy endless gears, the result is the car is only fast from above a 40mph roll. The sloppy and silky smooth 1-2shift just lags so much during a race with a Civic 5-speed from a dead stop I lost 3 car lengths due to the 1-2 shift!!!!

It's time to swap this baby to a 5-speed dual range tranny, and I'm ready to do it, I've contacted a guy I do allot of used soobie biz with and he said he's got a 5-speed Manual 4WD Dual Range Tranny (3.70ratio) for $150 with around 60,000miles on it. What I need to know is this :

1. Will my stock Front Axels work?
2. What about the driveshaft
3. Mounts?
4. Anything else I need to know?

I allready have the whole pedal assembly, clutch cable, shifter, shift linkage.



#3 Steveman09

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 11:30 PM

Thanks for the reply!


The rear diff I have right now is a 3.70 ratio open diff.

my car is a 1987 GL-10 4WD Turbo Auto right now.

Do I really need a longer speedo cable? I have the digidash....

#4 Ross

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 12:52 AM

Thanks for the reply!


The rear diff I have right now is a 3.70 ratio open diff.

my car is a 1987 GL-10 4WD Turbo Auto right now.

Do I really need a longer speedo cable? I have the digidash....


You should have a 3.9 diff at the moment i think... you need to swap diffs with the gearbox.

I think you need a longer speedo cable for all conversions on LHD cars.

#5 bajavwnsoobnut

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 01:09 AM

ummmm all autos are 3.7 and the turbos for manuals too

but what you need is the front axles, front half of the driveshaft (it's longer), flywheel and clutch assy, pedal box, clutch cable, shift linkage, and be a good idea to do the speedo cable just in case but I don't think you need it.

Where at in P-town are ya? I'm over near the clackamas town center if ya want to meet up sometime and talk

#6 Caboobaroo

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 08:53 AM

well here's a list of things needed to do the 5-speed conversion
transmission
flywheel and clutch
shift linkage for a 4wd
center console to make it look proper
driveshaft
instrument cluster
crossmember
clutch cable
pedal assembly
speedo cable for a manual

since your car is an automatic, it has the 25 spline axles I do recall so no need to change axles. Also, the automatic is a 3.70 front diff so the rear diff will match any turbo manual transmission. All I did on mine was drop the automatic out, take out the auto shift linkage, cluster, center console, drifeshaft and replaced it with the RX FT4WD d/r 5-speed. You can use a driveshaft out of any manual EA82 (got mine from an SPFI wagon). If you need any other help, PM me and I'll be able to help. The only difference on my RX that is different from yours is mine was the 4EAT, not the 3AT...

#7 thealleyboy

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 10:27 AM


since your car is an automatic, it has the 25 spline axles I do recall so no need to change axles. Also, the automatic is a 3.70 front diff so the rear diff will match any turbo manual transmission. All I did on mine was drop the automatic out, take out the auto shift linkage, cluster, center console, drifeshaft and replaced it with the RX FT4WD d/r 5-speed. You can use a driveshaft out of any manual EA82 (got mine from an SPFI wagon).


If his D/R is the more common (non-RX-turbo) type, he will need to change the axles (23 spline) and diff (3.9). Otherwise, you'll need everything on Cab's list.

good luck, John

#8 Steveman09

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 10:29 PM

ummmm all autos are 3.7 and the turbos for manuals too

but what you need is the front axles, front half of the driveshaft (it's longer), flywheel and clutch assy, pedal box, clutch cable, shift linkage, and be a good idea to do the speedo cable just in case but I don't think you need it.

Where at in P-town are ya? I'm over near the clackamas town center if ya want to meet up sometime and talk


Hey thats cool, I'm over off of Scholls Ferry Road near beaverton. Maybe we can meet up this weekend, I'm also planning on a trip to U-PULL IT to get the console parts, driveshaft, and some other small stuff. Let me know what time you can meet up and I'll go over there, then after that I can goto the Foster UPULLIT since its on the way.


Thanks for all the replies guys, very helpful, I'm going to keep my stock cluster since its a Digital Dash in excellent shape and works perfectly and is nice and bright, it doesnt bother me that it has the gear selection lights for the auto still there, I do however have a question, what about the throttle cable (recently replaced) Does the bracket where its bolted to the tranny bellhousing right now on my AUTO the same on the MANUAL or do I need a new bracket and cable as well?

Also if I'm understanding right, if the tranny is a D/R 5-speed TURBO the Axle Splines are 25 vs the 23 on the 3AT TURBO, and if the D/R 5-speed is a NON-TURBO then the Axle splines are 23 which are the same as the 3AT TURBO. Is this correct?

All tranny's being from 87ish years with 3.70 ratios.

#9 Numbchux

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 11:53 PM

All tranny's being from 87ish years with 3.70 ratios.


nope, part-time 4wd's (non-turbos...i beleive), were 3.9s, full-times (dual range or not) were 3.7.

#10 bajavwnsoobnut

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 01:26 AM

nope, part-time 4wd's (non-turbos...i beleive), were 3.9s, full-times (dual range or not) were 3.7.


N/A 4WD manuals are 3.9 and all others are 3.7

and Steveman PM me and I will send you my ph# and I work graveyard so it is a lil hard to do stuff during the day but might be able to make a run out to the yard to check them out and also which U-Pull-It are ya talking about besides the one on Foster cause there are quite a few of them around lol and might also go out to Boring to U-Pull U-Save

#11 Steveman09

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 09:04 PM

Just got back from the junk yard with lots of parts :

Donor Car was a :
88 GL Wagon 5-speed Manual 4WD Dual Range Non-Turbo

I got :

Rear Drive Shaft
Rear Transmission Crossmember/Support
Rear Transmission Mounts
Transmission Dogbone/Torque Strap
Transmission Dogbone/Torque Strap Bellhousing Bracket
Complete Shift Linkages, Shifters and Bushings
Center Console Trim
Complete Pedal Assembly w/switches
Clutch Cable

I know I still need some 4WD Manual Turbo Front CV Axels, I'm debating to use Junk yard ones or just go buy some new REMANS, what do you guys think? I would like to do this right.

What else do I need? While I was there I checked out a bunch of subarus and there was a really nice shape 3.90 Rear Diff Non-LSD There if anyone wants it, its at the Sherwood U-PULL IT right off 99W.

Also how do you tell if a transmissions gear ratio for the front diff? Is there a ID TAG somwhere?

#12 Ross

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 10:50 PM

Also how do you tell if a transmissions gear ratio for the front diff? Is there a ID TAG somwhere?


It should be 3.9

#13 grossgary

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 10:54 PM

you can rotate the input shaft and count how many times one of the outputs (shaft or axle stub) rotates. or backwards, rotate the axle stub or output shaft and see how many times the input shaft rotates. rotate 10 times - a 3.7 will rotate 37 times and a 3.9 will rotate 39.

#14 Steveman09

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 12:13 AM

you can rotate the input shaft and count how many times one of the outputs (shaft or axle stub) rotates. or backwards, rotate the axle stub or output shaft and see how many times the input shaft rotates. rotate 10 times - a 3.7 will rotate 37 times and a 3.9 will rotate 39.


ahha! I knew there was a way to find out :)


BTW I'm assuming 25 spline axels are stronger than 23spline ones correct? I would think they would do this since the Turbo's output more power, but as I have learned with subaru's this isnt allways the case ;)

#15 Caboobaroo

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 01:34 PM

ahha! I knew there was a way to find out :)


BTW I'm assuming 25 spline axels are stronger than 23spline ones correct? I would think they would do this since the Turbo's output more power, but as I have learned with subaru's this isnt allways the case ;)


yes the 25 spline axles besides being stronger, are also a larger diameter shaft between the DOJ and the CV if I remember correctly

#16 Roundeye

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 03:07 PM

Both of my '87 Wagons are 3.90. One is a auto S/R and the other is a manual D/R. Both are N/A.

#17 MilesFox

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 06:31 PM

ok let me clear up some mis-information i am reading about the axles.

use the ones you have. for 2 reasons
1. ALL 3at autos are 23 splines, same as dual range non turbo trannies
2. the 3at turbo axle has the same diameter doj and axle shaft as 25 spline axles.

another thing about at gear ratio, this will not apply to your build, but here goes.

all turbo at's are 3.7 85-86 turbo or non are 3.7. 87 and later non turbo at's are 3.9

there you go.

#18 Steveman09

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 09:01 PM

Thanks for the clearup, now its starting to make sense ;)

I was getting a bit confused, since my last trip to the yard saw your explanation rather than others that have posted and have me scratching my head LOL :)

#19 Roundeye

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 05:27 PM

all turbo at's are 3.7 85-86 turbo or non are 3.7. 87 and later non turbo at's are 3.9

there you go.


Here's one to screw everything up........ My 1985 GL Wagon with N/A engine and dual range M/T has 3.90 as well. I suppose someone could have changed the entire driveline.

#20 Robert M

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 11:38 PM

Lot of work...long list of parts to be changed!

If all else fails, you could have a shift kit installed in the transmission. This will make the car shift WAY more positively and strongly! But, you may want to add a tranny cooler.
This is a generic solution, I'm a newbie at the Subaru site. My wagon (87 4wd GL with most options and low miles) isn't quite running yet, but it will!!!)

#21 bajavwnsoobnut

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 11:07 AM

well for one thing there is no such thing for us as a shift kit so it's easier to go with a manual tranny than to try to figure out the AT which only has 3 gears and gets horrible gas mileage due to that

#22 Steveman09

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 12:45 AM

There are modifications for the 3AT to make it preform better in shifting (PV Valve adjusting) Amound other things, but when it comes down to it, you have to remember the problem with the 3AT :

1. Only 3 gears
2. Horrible Gear Ratios that are out of the engine power band
3. Overheats easily
4. Low Stall Converter resulting in poor low end
5. Governer is prone to failure (allready rebuilt mine once)
6. Poor Control over car


A Manual Tranny has the following advantages :

1. 5 gears
2. Close Gear Ratios that stay within the Engine's powerband
3. Excellent low end capability since it has a clutch which can be slipped at any desired RPM point to launch
4. Stronger than Automatic (can withstand much more HP)
5. Tranny is Lighter than Automatic
6. More Efficient Use of Engine Power
7. Better Gas Milage than Auto
8. Superior Control over car

And the list goes on.....

It really comes down to the car's purpose and what you want to do with it.

My car was fine with the auto when it was bone stock, but now that I have modified the engine it has become the weakest link and is holding the engine's potential back majorly. Thats why I'm converting amoung other reasons as listed above.

#23 Steveman09

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 10:26 PM

Update :


Just got the flywheel today, its from an XT Turbo, I sent it out to the machine shop to have it resurfaced and checked out, I just got it back and it looks great.

I was looking for clutch options and recently found a Exedy Performance Clutch for $109 on a site, I ordered it and just was informed its on BACKORDER :( So I will be stuck for now with a OEM XT6 Clutch Kit for $200.

I've got everything I need now for the swap and I just found out the Tranny is actually a Non Turbo Manual with a 3.90 ratio so I went ahead and got a 3.90 Ratio Rear Differential to match it. I guess all in all its better this way since the axels will fit that I allready have and the gears will be slighly shorter for better acceleration. I will be swapping everything this weekend and I'll take lots of pictures and maybe make a DIY or GUIDE to help others in the future.

If anyone has any better ideas for a clutch solution let me know.

BTW I called Centerforce and they informed me thier lattest Dual Friction Clutch for the EA82-T will be shipping 6/13/05!!!! This is good news for all us Performance EA82-T's! I'll keep you all up to date on the progress.

#24 Steveman09

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 07:43 PM

FEW! I'm proud to report the SWAP is COMPLETE!!!!!!!!!


Wow what a PITA it was, I learned ALLOT about the EA82 Drivetrain during this swap, I started on Saturday Morning and got delayed due to a clutch/flywheel compatability issue (see other thread) I finally got it all done today so it took me about 2.5 days to complete it. Which is not bad considering all the problems I had along the way. I ended up replacing both front lower ball joints due to one side's threads rounding off while trying to remove the Castle nut :banghead: But I kind of wanted to replace them anyways since they were old and the condition and lifespan left on them was unknown ;) The rear diff, driveline, linkages, and tranny were a DIRECT fit with no issues, they simply bolted right up! The pedal box was a PITA since the whole Steering Collum has to be removed as well as the ECU to get the pedal box out. I transfered all my cruise control stuff and brake light switches to my pedal box assembly pretty easily. Then I just popped the big rubber plug out of the firewall for the clutch cable to pass through and routed it right to the tranny's fork. The manual tranny crossmember mounts to a different place on the cars body compared to the automatic so longer bolts are required (got mine at the yard). Also the Flywheel bolts are longer for the Manual Flywheel compared to the Automatic Flexplate. Down in the console where the automatic shifter wiring is, I had to splice together 2 wires to bypass the Nuetral Safety switch so the car would start without having that big shifter switch down under the carpet somwhere. Everything else went pretty smooth, just a matter of getting it done. At times I found it overwelming but it got better as I pressed on. There is also a pin on the ECU you have to ground to make your cruise control work and the ECU think it has a Manual tranny instead of a Auto. I beleave it was pin 30, I'll post a pic later. I filled the tranny up with fresh gear oil and took it for a spin, WOW what a difference, its like NIGHT and DAY compared to the AUTO!!!!! I can roast the tires without even dumping the clutch in 1st and seriously brake the tires loose shifting to 2nd. I even tryed a right hand turn from a stop in 4WD HIGH at WOT and I still burned the tires (Yes it was burning more than the fronts) :)

Well thats it for now, I'm exhausted, I still have some small things to take care of such as the Speedo Cable, the Auto cable is shorter so it wont reach now, and I need to wire up my backup lights, other than that its complete!!!!

I'll post TONS of pics later when I wake up.

#25 Steveman09

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 12:22 AM

Pictures as Promised :

-=56k BEWARE=-

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