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Are XT6's really turbo ready??????


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20 replies to this topic

#1 Frank B

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 06:13 PM

If so, how much boost can one take before the fuel and ignition need to be tweaked??
I may have a project!

#2 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 06:19 PM

Where is Witte when you need him?

-Brian

#3 Hodaka Rider

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 06:25 PM

6LBs is safe, I think. (assuming the stock fuel system is in good shape0

#4 Myxalplyx

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 07:45 PM

Originally posted by Frank B
If so, how much boost can one take before the fuel and ignition need to be tweaked??
I may have a project!



You need to ask Dave of ProECM.com. Within the last year or so he had his XT6 turbocharged and intercooled with a fuel system his company was/is developing. I don't recall the ignition needing any tweaking.

If my memory serves me correct, he was able to run upwards of 8psi or so without an intercooler without detonation. And if my memory serves me correctly, he was running upwards to 12psi of boost and trapping around or post 100mph. No-one has been able to confirm this though. :-\

From my experience, I know I could not run a simple 50hp shot of nitrous without the car going WAY lean. The fuel injectors are only 185cc units and from my calculations can only muster 190hp or so at 50psi which is about 45hp over stock.

What do you have in mind/planned? :cool:

#5 Myxalplyx

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Posted 11 September 2003 - 07:53 PM

I forgot to mention, why don't you read some Motor Trend articles from back in da day?

http://www.ptrlabs.c...es/motor_trend/

The first page of the Motor Trend article is here:
http://www.ptrlabs.c...otorTrend1a.jpg


This is what it says on the 2nd paragraph to answer your question of is it turbo ready.

"Built entirely of aluminum alloys, the single overhead cam six has a great deal of flexibility, given that it can vary in displacement from 2 to 3 liters, accomodate double overhead camshafts, 4-valve cylinder heads, and even turbocharging that would produce over 200 hp, and could be used in the current XT6 chassis."

Does that help some? :slobber:

#6 Frank B

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Posted 12 September 2003 - 05:58 PM

Yes, that helps a lot!
what I have planned is a supercharger off of a high end import that I may be able to get cheap. It will require work and a lot of research, but hey, I don't even have an xt6 yet! So all I can do is research it!

Thanks again.

#7 Frank B

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Posted 12 September 2003 - 06:38 PM

Why is it that an EA82T can handle 12-14psi but the ER27 only 8 or so? I do realize that with more displacement comes more volume to pressurize resulting in lower boost levels or psi. But it isn't even a liter in difference?!?
But I thought I read on here that the ER27 came with the 7.7 compression turbo pistons and a turbo ready ECM. Maybe I miss-understood??

Anyway, thanks for your input.

#8 Hodaka Rider

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Posted 12 September 2003 - 06:54 PM

EA-82T compression is 7.7:1 . I believe the XT-6 is 8.7:1, or somewhere around there.
A guy named Eric Sneed entered a XT-6 with an EA-82 turbocharger attached in the 2002 Grassroots Motorsports challenge, and placed fairly high against some stiff competition. I haven't found much info on the car, though.

#9 Myxalplyx

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Posted 12 September 2003 - 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Hodaka Rider
EA-82T compression is 7.7:1 . I believe the XT-6 is 8.7:1, or somewhere around there.
A guy named Eric Sneed entered a XT-6 with an EA-82 turbocharger attached in the 2002 Grassroots Motorsports challenge, and placed fairly high against some stiff competition. I haven't found much info on the car, though.



According to the FSM (Factory Service Manual) the XT6 has a compression ratio of 9.7:1.

#10 MilesFox

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 01:11 AM

but the xt6 motor is based off the ea82 engine in design, so wouldnt you think turbo pistons would swap into the 6?

#11 Hodaka Rider

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 01:37 AM

9.7 it is, then. I had no resources available but my memory at the time, guess it failed me.
Not sure about the pistons - could maybe ask CCR?

#12 Frank B

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 09:47 PM

I think I'll just do this with a EA82T, If I can find a good one.

Thanks everyone.

#13 Myxalplyx

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 02:19 AM

Originally posted by MilesFox
but the xt6 motor is based off the ea82 engine in design, so wouldnt you think turbo pistons would swap into the 6?



Yes! The FSM shows the 1.8ltr and 2.7ltr motors have the same bore/stroke and other piston/cylinder information. When I last checked there was very little differences. At some point I was considering getting the 7.7:1 pistons but sheesh, it almost seems impossible to turbocharge this car. Please, someone do it and put up some pics. :brow:

#14 MilesFox

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 10:08 AM

an idea i had in mind would be ti use the turbo pistons, and then make up a twin turbo system using stock ea82 turbos.

so if 1 turbo can run 4 cylinders, then a turbo for 3 cylinders each would act as a boost without mods!

and then use the xt6 stock fuel system, and tweak the timing a but....................................................

#15 JonOfScio

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 01:05 PM

Frank B:

You have to remember that even if there was a 1.8L 4 cylinder and a 3.6L 8 cylinder, you wouldn't double the PSI to match the displacement...

the turbo is only supplying one chamber at a time, so 8PSI on any system still pushes 8PSI into each chamber. The only time that max PSI of an engine would change would be when you went to bigger displacement cylinders. (450ml to 500ml or 550ml)

And the XT6 can't take as much pressure as an EA82 because it has a higher compression ratio.

#16 Frank B

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 04:52 PM

That makes good sense, but what about the volume of air the turbo is moving. The turbo on a 4 is smaller than on a 6 or 8. And I think that is where we'll run into the fuel delivery problems.

#17 Frank B

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 04:57 PM

but I think it's going to be left up to fate for me to get this project going. I allready have a bike project in my shed, and I was going to sell my '00 Dakota and get into another Soob, but I can't seem to sell it right now, bad timing I guess. I'm still going to get the Super cahrger, it's off of a 95 Jaguar XJR. An Eaton roots type. Can't be a bad move!

#18 Hodaka Rider

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 05:09 PM

OK, as stated, the ER can be turbo'd. Also, when using the turbo off a EA engine, you will likely only get 6-8 PSI boost without falling off the compressor map (bad thing). This is because the turbo can only supply so many CFM at a given boost level. Which is fine, because with the high compression you don't want any more boost than that anyways (without getting into augmenting the fuel system).
Myxalplyx: What exactly, I'm wondering, prompted the comment about it seeming to be almost impossible to turbo this car? Maybe you're running into something we can help you overcome?

#19 Skip

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 06:24 PM

No one has addressed the fuel management system he will use.
The stock XT6 ECU will not work very well as it has no fuel enrichment map as the EA82T does.
When on boost it will still try to maintain stoich and this could lead to detonation very easily. (esp w/ factory pistons)
Now if the XT6 ECU uses a batch FI system like the EA82T does he may be able to add an injector to each bank and use the EA82T ECU.
Or else he will have to MegaSquirt or use some other fuel control system.
Just a thought.

#20 Myxalplyx

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Posted 22 September 2003 - 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Skip
No one has addressed the fuel management system he will use.
The stock XT6 ECU will not work very well as it has no fuel enrichment map as the EA82T does.
When on boost it will still try to maintain stoich and this could lead to detonation very easily. (esp w/ factory pistons)



Wow, one of my favorite subjects and I failed to keep track of this thread. :D

You could perhaps get a fuel injector controller like a Hyper SFC or the Apexi SAFC (which I was unable to get configured to work with the XT6 but I'm not expert). You could also increase the fuel pressure. I've had an AEM fuel pressure regulator adapted to fit the XT6 off of a late model Honda Prelude.
Posted Image

Only thing that has to be modified is the screw hole that holds it in place. Have to bend it a bit but it fits. Also, I remember ProECM has developed some type of fuel management system where you can add extra injectors for your turbo setup. Dave of ProECM has been successful doing this. (http://www.proecm.com) Send him an email for details. He's vacationing in Australia though until the 1st of October but may still answer the email.

#21 Myxalplyx

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Posted 22 September 2003 - 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Hodaka Rider
Myxalplyx: What exactly, I'm wondering, prompted the comment about it seeming to be almost impossible to turbo this car? Maybe you're running into something we can help you overcome?



Actually, it may be a little easier for me because of XT6Wagons help on here. He provided a key part that is difficult to make for these cars. The part in particular is the header (or is it exhaust manifold?) that goes from the exhaust ports to the turbo. It seems you would have to have the header and the uppipe to the turbo integrated unlike the late modelled Subarus where that's not necessary. All that's needed on the late modelled EJ25s/EJ22s that are being turbocharged is the up-pipe that goes into the turbo itself.

2nd, unlike the late modelled Subarus I spoke of earlier, your downpipe that goes to the cat converter has to be modified. Sure, you don't want to use the stock cat converter anyway because the piping diameter (it's around 1 5/8ths or something like that...the outlet of the cat) sucks. Even if you wanted to use it, the stock cat converter has 2 inlets. Each inlet comes from 3 sets of cylinders. Each inlet is hard piped into the stock header itself, not separated or can be unbolted. It even makes getting an aftermarket cat converter for it near impossible. I have yet to be able to find a double inlet cat converter that I could fit under the XT6 to fit and even if I could, the header's piping would have to be modified because all the aftermarket cat converters with double inlets goes straight into the cat. The stock cat's inlets goes into the cat at an angle. :madder:


These are a couple of things that will be a headache in turbocharging the XT6. :banghead:

Hodaka Rider,

I'm trying to have an intercooler added that I purchased. If you know of anyone that has already done this on an XT6, please let me know. Pics would be great also. My car is in a shop right now. Thanks!




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