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Value ? - 1999 Legacy Sedan Rear End Damage


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12 replies to this topic

#1 dmplatt

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 07:30 PM

I have a 1999 Legacy Sedan, Anniversary Edition - spoiler, alloys, moonroof... 78k miles - in fantastic shape, except...

Last week some idiot in a pickup rear-ended me. The trunk is pretty torn up (he almost totally missed the bumper) but the car is 100% driveable.

Insurnace says it's totaled - the math may work out that way, but everything is still functional (engine, tranny, wheels, glass, etc...) except the trunk.

I am planning to get an estimate from the body shop tomorrow. Is there much of a market for this car to be parted or sold in one shot? I don't think I can replace what I have for what they are offering - but maybe I am just too attached to it!

You can see pictures of it here:
http://www.infopia.com/david/1.JPG
http://www.infopia.com/david/2.JPG
http://www.infopia.com/david/3.JPG
http://www.infopia.com/david/4.JPG

dmp

#2 RallyKeith

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 07:52 PM

Well, knowing what it cost to have my '04 STi repaired 30 days after being the first one delivered in my town (can you tell I'm still a bit bitter on that) I'd say it's a an easy $5-6k of damage. I was hit on the bumper, but I think mine didn't even look as bad. Looks like it will need a Rear quarter panel, rear trunk lid, rear tail lights, trunk pan, the area of the trunk that the taillights mount to, bumper cover, bumper absorber, bumper brackets, and the killer will be if it bent what I'll call the rear section of the frame. That said your car is probably worth a private party value of around $8k so it sure seems like it could be close on the fix or total decision.

#3 grossgary

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 08:03 PM

the frame is fine, i wouldn't expect any problems with the car if you can get it fixed. good luck with it.

i can tell you for sure that if it is totalled the insurance company will take it, sell it and someone will fix it and sell it as a salvaged title vehicle. so either way it will end up on the road again, it definitely won't be parted out, it's too nice and someone will make $ fixing it and reselling.

#4 thegodfather

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 08:12 PM

it is probably repairable but its really a matter of how much it will cost i had an 05 subaru outback sport that my family bought brand new and that i crashed 3 days later making a left turn i did 15,000 dollars of damage on a 20,000 car. it really really really sucked so don't feel to bad about yours i am suprised they totaled it did they say how much it was gonna cost them to fix because totaling it costhtem a lot of money and in turn costs you even more in new rates something i no all to much about that being a 17 year old driver totaling a brand new car best of luck to you though

#5 grossgary

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 08:31 PM

forgot to mention....if the accident was not your fault (which it sounds like it was not), then the ball is really in your court if you know what you're doing. they will fix it no matter what the cost. i am telling you this as a fact, not a matter of oppinion. they may want to total it and tell you they can't fix it, but that's BS. if you get on them and don't back down you can have the car fixed. you tell them you want YOUR car back the way YOU had it, the accident was not your fault, you've taken good care of this vehicle and do not have any desire to settle for futher payments on a new vehicle or a used vehicle with unknown maintenance records. you want YOUR car fixed because you know the engine and trans are well taken care of and it's their fault. don't get me wrong, they will play hard ball so if you can't handle it don't bother trying but i promise you they will fix it if you're persistent and mean business. someone may say it's totalled and that's all they'll give you...they are wrong, they are only saying that because that's what happened to them, that's what the insurance company wants. if it costs more to fix they won't want to pay that! but they will to avoid lawsuit or to mitigate a claim. the key is who was at fault. if you weren't at fault then this holds true. if it was your fault then you're in a trickier situation and you'll basically get whatever the car is worth.

#6 RallyKeith

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 08:39 PM

Not saying that your frame is defenitely tweaked, but they are built with crumple zones were the frame is designed to bend and things. Attached are some pictures of my accident damage, and the frame was bent. Just putting this up for you guys to see.

Attached Files



#7 thegodfather

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 09:04 PM

yeah grossgary is right when my car was totaled it was my fault (even thought the other guy was well over the speed limit) so i was not really in any position to negotiate but i know of other times when people have presisted especially with older collector or classic cars as well as modified cars and have made the insurence company pay to have it fixed but these were in accidents where it was not their fault so if you really love this car and are willing ti fight for it by all means do so because i have heard of many times when people have been successful

#8 nipper

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 11:28 PM

HOLY S**T!
if your car was silver, it could be my car. I am going theu the exact same fight with my 98 leagacy. I was sitting at a red light, and the kid coming up behind me didnt see me nor the red light. I got slammed at 50mph. I will say its a tough little car.
Right now I am fighting my insurance company, the other insurance company, I decided to call in the lawyers. I am as battered as the car is.
I hope you are ok, but i got a guesstimate of about 4600 and a car values of 3125 (car has 180 K miles on it and in exclenet condition) from the insurance company.
Good Luck, and stick t your guns about replacement value to the other insUrance company. It may give you enough to fix the car.
You can figure out the net worth of the car by looking on line as there are a few places to find it.

nipper

#9 dmplatt

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 12:05 AM

Thanks for all of the advice - and yeah I am OK, the guy who hit me is OK, and no pedestrians were injured. The whole thing happened at a mid-block crosswalk (whoever decided that was a good idea deserves to be beaten).

The market value for the car is listed as follows:
KBB Private Party - $7675 (Excellent condition)
KBB Retail - $9970

I guess the issue is that to get a car of the quality I currently HAD it would cost me $9970 + tax + License. Does it make sense to call the guys insurnace and tell them that? Does anyone have experience actually winning that battle or am I just spnning my wheels and wasting both of our time?

dmp

#10 grossgary

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 02:52 AM

i just told you that you can get more than whatever those values are that you posted. the values are mostly arbitrary, they try to stick to them as they want to pay as little as possible. they are good averages and general information, but the insurance company will pay whatever it takes to keep you from suing their nuts off. if you want your car fixed bad enough they will fix it. tell them you want YOUR car back, not another car payment. you've got to be aggressive and proactive and don't wait around for things to happen because they won't. if you don't have this attitude you won't be successful. if you do, or have a lawyer you can get your car fixed. if the cars *value* is 8,000 and it costs 10,000 to fix it i garauntee i could get the insurance company to fix my car (assuming accident isn't my fault).

they will pay you AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. the CEO is not making 3 million a year because he's willing to pay out as much as possible to claims. time to start thinking business and realize the insurance company is trying to take advantage of you...and YOUR the one that got hit! you didn't ask for a truck up your a$$!!!! but - even if you don't have a lawyer you can still accomplish this....i don't lie but know people who will claim to have a lawyer when they really don't so the insurance company cooperates. if they feel you're a push over and won't persue anything (which many americans are)...take this for instance...how many people actually debate the *value* insurance companies pay for totalled vehicles??? VERY few, so they don't expect you to either. but they want an at fault accident settled and over with.

i'd start by talking to a lawyer, most will offer free consultations for a few minutes. they might even tell you that it's not worth your time to get a lawyer....but you don't tell the insurance company that. you tell them you met with a lawyer and are ready to take further action if they don't cooperate quickly.

here's is the steps i would take:
i'd get a free consultation with a lawyer (some will even do it over the phone). then find out how much to fix and add some to it, it's easy for the shop to miss minor items that might need tweaking afterwards. call the insurance up and tell them you'll sign a contract stating you won't persue litigation or continue seeing your attorney if they pay XXXXX amount to fix your car. YOU make the deal, don't let them make the deal. it takes a little knowledge and aggressive attitude, but it can be done. don't believe anythign they tell you, be persistent that you want YOUR car fixed and don't care what the internet or kelley blue balls has to say about car values. you had a great car in great shape and intend on keeping it. you don't want to get screwed with more car payments or a used car in with unknown maitenance history. be persistent and don't listen to them, they have pre-canned retorts and commentary on everything but it's all pre-canned and rehearsed BS regurgitated by the person your talking to on the phone. ask for the manager if you have to. when they know you mean business they'll start to crack and want to settle the deal.

good luck and have fun doing it.

#11 nipper

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 06:42 AM

I'm in a little bit differnt situation, since im pretty well banged up, we have to sue )not to mention the other insuracne company is denying I even exist).

I will tell you what my lawyer told me. He is surprised that the other insurance company is not kissing my rump roast right now (which is the reason im forced to sue).
He also said that usually all it takes is a letter from a lawyer to get what you want fomr the other insurance company.
If you really like the car, and you want it fixed, it may pay for you to go beyond the free consultation (trust me i went thru 15 of those till i found a lawyer who i liked and would take the case) and pay the 75.00 or whatever for an hour of a lawyers time and have him write a letter to the other insurance company statiung what you want, and unless you get it you will sue. That is usually enough to kick them in the rump roast to get things going.
Sadly it seems most lawyers like really big numbers, My case is giong to be bewteen 20k-350K (i see a foot and knee dr this week..that will make the determintaion). To me thats a lot of money, to laywers, its not.
ALso another think my lawyer said, since i was stoped and rearended, once we walk inot court, there is no defense for the other side.
Do get esitmates, do submit the bills to the other insuracne company, do hold your ground. You have an advantage aside from being rear ended, Your car (like mine) drives fine. I have rental coverage which im not starting yet untill I get a fair value for my car. Insurance companies want thest things settled in 30 days (sometimes 45, depends upon the law in your state). Wait them out if you can, and when you do settle on a price, demand a rental car.

nipper

#12 RallyKeith

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 07:44 AM

You know, I hate to say this, but it seems to me that when dealing with car insurance companies sueing is the only way you, the victim, will get what you rightly deserve. I found that out the hard way by not sueing when I was hit. I took the high road and felt that everyone makes mistakes and that I shouldn't sue someone for that. The bottom line is that I still have a neck that will never be quite the same, and a car that I can't sell or trade in for proper market value. Its a sucky thing to do, but sometime you have to.

Keith

#13 jayhawkroy

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 12:15 PM

A couple of points to ponder:
1. In addition to KBB retail, get NADA book values. NADA values are used as much as KBB for payoffs. Sometimes there are big differences. In your arguments/discussions, have available the highest value to use as leverage/encouragement for them to pay for the repairs.
2. It is possible to "buy back" the car back from the insurance company. In many cases the "buy back" is deducted from your settlement and you avoid the salvage title business. Check with the body shops you are getting estimates from. Some of them offer cash paying customers substantial discounts and you can get the same identical work done by the shop much cheaper than the insurance company. You may also check in to having a local vo-tech do the work on your car. Quality may not be first rate, but the price is usually outstanding.




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