SvRex Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Some of you may know we've had limited success competing in the Grassroots Motorsports Challenge with a car we call the SVreX. It's a '92 SVX with fully adjustable Koni G/C suspension, nitrous, and nearly 1000 lbs of excess weight shaved off. The car was built by home schooled High School students and has done pretty well for 2 years. The GRM event is a triathalon where cars are built for under $2000 then raced on an autocross course, a drag strip, and concourse judged for appearance and creatitivity. We are now starting our latest little monster, and I could use all the help I can get, so I invite your input here. Meet The Justyfier. A 1988 Justy DL driven by a turboed 2.0L from an '02 WRX. The motor will be mid engined, and the drive will be RWD. It will ride on inboard suspension from a Yamaha R-1 and be held together by a significant cage, probably about 20 point. Finished weight about 1800 lbs. It will be patterned after the Renault R5 turbo. When finished, it will sport extremely wide fender flares (about 10") and will wear Black Java Pearl paint from an STI. It will also be completely street legal. Yes, it WILL be built entirely for less than $2006. And it will be built again by High School students (if I can buy enough pizza!). Anyway, we are trying to think through as many of the design problems as possible before we grab the sawzall. I'm currently trying to envision the rear end. With the powerplant sitting where the back seat used to be and the tranny (fwd from a '95 Impreza) behind that, there is going to be a lot in the way of the rear end. It was suggested I use the tranny itself as a tension member in the rear end with no rubber motor or tranny mounts. That idea sounded very very bad to me. Latest suggestion is an XT-6 rear end, but I'm still trying to envision the whole thing. Once I get the rear figured out, I'll have to come up with a shifter linkage. The tailpiece of the tranny will be basically at the rear bumper! Some considerations: -Autocrossing is by far the most important part of the event. We must end up with a car that can handle. -There are no exceptions in the budget. Expensive ideas won't work. -Parts cars I've already got to steal parts off of: the Justy, a '95 Impreza, a '92 SVX, and an '02 WRX. -I'm trying to keep it as much a Subie as possible. So, again, I invite your input. Like I said, I need all the help I can get!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 how can you get a wrx motor for under 2k? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvRex Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 Pulled it from a front end wreck which damaged the timing pulley. The seller sold it for $200 assuming it was trashed, as it is an interference motor. I'm going to have to open it up before we get started. I'm hoping for valve damage only. If so, I'll put in a few valves and hope for good things. If the motor was damaged beyond repair, I'll go back to plan A which was to use an SVX motor. It also came with no wiring harness. I'm going to have to put an awful lot of effort into hand building the wiring harness. My labor is free in the GRM budget. Good thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Looks like you got one hell of a fight ahead of you. Justy is the bastard subaru... almost nothing fits in it without ALOT of fabrication. Hope weld and metal isnt a part of your budget, it might cost at least $2000 in steel to mount your EJ20 and create enough structure to handle the power. 250hp in a justy will twist it like a pretzel. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvRex Posted July 21, 2005 Author Share Posted July 21, 2005 Right. Subaru's most unloved car ever, with the heart of it's golden boy! Exactly what I like about it. Regarding all the budget issues, etc: The GRM Challenge is one of the few places where a man can earn high levels of respect for his unparalleled skill in dumpster diving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Right. Subaru's most unloved car ever, with the heart of it's golden boy! Exactly what I like about it. I love it, im all for it!! But to make it a true Subaru icon you must have AWD. But with a $2000 budget i guess you cant get too crazy. Where is this race held? Is there a webpage to learn more about it? -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbird Man Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 problem with awd in mid engine is the tailshaft would stick past the rear bumper. you could do front engine awd it has been done. though you're weight distro would be horrible. an option for rear the suspension is the front suspension off the impreza with tie rods mounted to the chassis for adujstable toe, or possibily 4 wheel steering, though that would be complicated and involve computer controls to maintain stability at high speeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushbasher Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Hey SVRex, I'm the guy you were talking to on the GRM board about the xt6 hubs/suspension. Heres a pic I made in Solidworks when I was thinking about making a mid-engine awd buggy. Obviously your frame would be different, but this might help show how everything will fit. my trailing arms are angled down but that can be changed to flat for a car without causing any issues. You could make your mid-engine car awd, but it would take a chain drive box or a transfer case possibly adapted from a 4wd, plus an ugly snaking driveshaft to get to the front. Could you get that to pass a safety inspection and still stay under budget, probably not, and even then the excess weight and reliability problems might kill the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvRex Posted July 21, 2005 Author Share Posted July 21, 2005 Cool guys- thanks for the help. Keep it coming. I've considered AWD, but the only feasible way I can think of is with the engine in the front. The engine bay is too small to fit an EJ20. If that didn't stop me, budget and safety regulations certainly would. If that didn't stop me, my limited abilities MOST certainly would!:-\ Junkie: the race is held in Gainesville, FL., and it will be in the Fall of 2006. More info can be found at www.grassrootsmotorsports.com Link in the middle of the page called "$2005 Challenge" will take you to a lot of info on the Challenge. Link on the left hand edge called "On the GRM Message Board" will take you to their forums, which are chock full of car nut wackos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvRex Posted July 21, 2005 Author Share Posted July 21, 2005 Oh yeah, BTW, I do recommend their magazine, Grassroots Motorsports, and it's sister, Classic Motorsports. Both beautiful mags with great info. A little light on Subies, though. They are starting a project car rally cross Impreza coupe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyJusty Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 The project sounds like a blast! As for the engine not fitting, that depends on your constraints. I put an RX drive train in my justy. The front of the engine pushes the radiator out a bit (ok, a few inches, so I moved the radiator to the back), and the tunnel down the middle needs to be changed to fit the tranny, rather than just a drive shaft. The linkage puts the shifter in the back seat, so I used a cable shifter out of some mitsubishi and got it back up front. or, you could just use the rear drive output right at the rear diff., no axle, and cover the front drive outputs. Then you could feel the power right behind your seat (not sure about the dimensions, whether or not that would fit). just my 2cents. Anytime I see one of these projects here I just get more crazy ideas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 SvRex: Remember this one from 2004? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvRex Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 Whoa, yeah! How come you didn't bring it back for '05? I was the only Subie- kinda lonely!! The SVreX took on a new look for '05: Bring something in '06- we need more Subies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvRex Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 The project sounds like a blast! As for the engine not fitting, that depends on your constraints. I put an RX drive train in my justy. The front of the engine pushes the radiator out a bit (ok, a few inches, so I moved the radiator to the back), and the tunnel down the middle needs to be changed to fit the tranny, rather than just a drive shaft. The linkage puts the shifter in the back seat, so I used a cable shifter out of some mitsubishi and got it back up front. or, you could just use the rear drive output right at the rear diff., no axle, and cover the front drive outputs. Then you could feel the power right behind your seat (not sure about the dimensions, whether or not that would fit). just my 2cents. Anytime I see one of these projects here I just get more crazy ideas! I'm with you, RallyJusty- there are not really any constraints! I'm not sure I'm following you- did you put your motor in the front? Is it AWD? How's it run? Do you drive it on the street? PLEASE tell me more about your cable linkage- I'm going to need one! I've got a FWD tranny so there is no rear drive output. I can move it further back and use the front outputs. I think I'll have a bit of play to shift it for weight balancing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvRex Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 WJM: I'm considering an XT-6 for '07. Huck369 let me drive his on the Dragon- gotta try it someday! :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 You are going to have to put a spool in the center differentioa; in the tranny to use only the spline stubs for RWD. Have you considered changing the final drive in the tranny to run everything backwards, then mounting the engine in the back behind the tranny and sending the power forwards to a rear differential between the front wheels? Drag racing would be insane, that light of a rear engined car should wheelie like nothing. good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Whoa, yeah! How come you didn't bring it back for '05? I was the only Subie- kinda lonely!! The SVreX took on a new look for '05: Bring something in '06- we need more Subies! Well, I actually owned the car before Steven purchased it from me for the challenge...we put it together and him and DrBiggly (Mike) from NASIOC took it down there. After that...steven lost interest in it after we did the RWD conversion on it, it sat for several months...and at some point I traded him my 2.5 RS sedan for it.....i put it back to AWD...and started autoxing it seriously and did quite well. Right now its under reconstruction at Top Speed, im going to compete with it nationally in FSP. In the meantime...my EX-RS is rapidly becomming a nationally competitive DSP car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyJusty Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 The engine is up front, and the radiator is in the back. I actually put the radiator in the back when we turbo'd the 3 cylinder. Thought it would make things easier. Cooling wasnt an issue, unless I was idling. The water pump on the small engine pushed just fine at working RPMs, but fell quite a bit at idle. The biggest problem was vapor locking, and collapsing hoses in the coolant system. I decided to leave the radiator in back when I put the larger drivetrain in place. The RX engine and tranny sit further forward than the transverse mounted 3 (obviously) and the result is the front of the engine is right at the back of the grill. The car hasnt been on the street since I started the latest work on it, and probably never will in it's current form. I would like to get a new justy body donor car and put the fun bits into a body that is in better shape (hasn'y been rolled). The cable linkage is out of a dodge/chrysler/mitsubishi thing. I cant remember. I do know that you need to cut off or remove the linkage complete right to the shafts on the tranny (including the non-removable end parts of the tranny linkage input shafts). I just welded the bits onto the input shafts of the RX tranny, fitted the other brackets as need to get the right geometry, and whammo, it worked. Didnt even take an hour to build once I had worked out the measurements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 its a long shot, but if you really want awd, you could turn the engine and fwd tranny sideways, the instread of running cv joints off the front diff, you could rund small prop shafts to the front and rear diffs. ive seen it done with a satern engine and tranny for rock crawling. ive honestly thought about doing that with a spare engine once i get my cars finished. i am thinking about making an awd buggy with a mid engine set up. i think ill have fun with it. that and it will allow me to run lsd front and rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvRex Posted July 27, 2005 Author Share Posted July 27, 2005 You are going to have to put a spool in the center differentioa; in the tranny to use only the spline stubs for RWD. ??? It's a FWD tranny. There IS NO rear output.??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 , you could turn the engine and fwd tranny sideways, the instread of running cv joints off the front diff, you could rund small prop shafts to the front and rear diffs. this will work, it will reduce your gear ratio by 3.9 or whatever the diff is, would be great for going slow offroad, or you would need some very large diameter tires, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 just a idea.. go find a wrecked olds bravada awd or even better a dead cyclone or typhoon build a adapter plate for the gm transmission to suby motor and use the drivetrain from the above mentioned vehicles to get your awd plus your weight balance might run you over budget tho depends on your luck in finding the parts and your haggling over prices skills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvRex Posted July 28, 2005 Author Share Posted July 28, 2005 I think we'll stick with the RWD plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 for some reason all the race car drivers I am around keep telling me Mid-Rear is the only way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 for some reason all the race car drivers I am around keep telling me Mid-Rear is the only way.... will, youll just have to prove em all wring then, wont you/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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