Midwst Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Some of my parts suppliers sell a gasket for the 2.2L oil pump. Others, like the dealer, say use gray RTV. I'm leaning towards the gasket with a very thin layer of RTV. That always works well for me on water pumps, etc. What do you guys think? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hklaine Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 I went with ultra-grey and no gasket. No leaks! Just my experience. -Heikki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOMAD327 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 If you use the gasket it will change the clearance where the o-ring is crushed, possibly causing an internal bypass leak inside the pump. That is of course, if your motor wasn't originally equipped with a gasket. Engines being sealed with RTV is not that new of an idea, and everybody didn't jump on the bandwagon all at once. On my 99 engine, there was no gasket, and it worked fine. If you have the gasket on hand, you can make up your mind when you see what you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwst Posted July 21, 2005 Author Share Posted July 21, 2005 I liked the idea of a gasket because it would allow me to use higher torque specs. The factory manual says 4-5 ft lbs for the oil pump bolts. Thats like finger tight! No wonder the things need to be resealed all the time! But I hadn't thought about the oil o ring crush issue. Changes things a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 The water pump is a thin gasket and RTV, no question. According to "Haynes" the oil pump is RTV only. I would tend to agree. Just make sure you only apply it in the right area, and NOT too much, it will fall off and clog an oil passage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwst Posted July 21, 2005 Author Share Posted July 21, 2005 How thick of a bead of RTV would you recommend? 1/4" or just a thin line along the sealing surface and around each bolt hole. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwst Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 Has anyone here used the gasket with the 2.2L?? I just can't believe the 4-5 ft lbs on the oil pump bolts either. Just sounds....loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Yep, as circular a bead as possible, spanning the inner third of the mounting surface. (Don't forget a new o-ring) Haynes says 48-60 Inch pounds of torque on the mounting bolts. 60 in/lbs , isn't that about 5 ft/lbs ? Yep , doesn't sound like much, but the o-ring is holding in the "systolic" pressure, right? The "diastolic" pressure is kept in by the rtv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 i'm confused as i definitely just replaced the crank seal and an oring on my 2.2 liter oil pump. i still have the parts receipt from the dealer. i'm not sure which is which as i purchased crank, cam and oil pump seals. i can rule out the cam seals by quantity number, the rest just say "oil seal or o-ring" here are the part numbers and descriptions: 806742110 Oil Seal 806733030 Oil Seal 10991AA000 O-Ring one of those could be an XT6 part as well.... do not use RTV to seal the oil pump. use anaerobic sealant only. oil supply is not something to mess with, it's not worth it. yes RTV can work, but it's not the best choice. anaeorbic sealant will not dry so long as it's exposed to air. when you put it on, only the sealant that is clamped between the block and pump will dry. the rest remaining internally that gets squised out will remain solvent and wash away with any oil. RTV dries and becomes hazardous to the engine, but it will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99obw Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 The water pump is a thin gasket and RTV, no question. I have never seen a Subaru water pump from the factory with RTV on the gasket, nor have I seen a Subaru water pump leak at the metal gasket. I don't recommend using RTV on the water pump gasket. RTV works fine for the oil pump, but one must be careful. Perhaps the anerobic is a little more idiot proof, I have used both with good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 there's some confusion becuase he mentioned that he used RTV for water pumps before, but that was just commentary. his real question refers to the oil pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwst Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 Now I'm a little confused. The dealer told me that the only thing they ever use on the oil pump is the grey RTV. Why would they use it, if it were a bad choice? Yes, my real interest is in the oil pump. Although I usually add a dab of black RTV to the threads on the bottom water pump bolts...but that is on other types of cars. Never done a water pump on a subaru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99obw Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 AFAIK Subaru dealers all use the gray RTV, more specifically threebond IIRC. You can use gray or black with no worry of a future failure. Just be sure to clean the surfaces of any old sealant, then wipe with acetone or MEK, apply a thin, even bead of RTV, put in place ONCE, then torque. I have never had the high quality gray or black RTV leak in any application when done properly. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwst Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 I've used RTV enough times to feel quite comfortable with it, but the anaerobic sealer idea interests me. Is there a brand name? If I go to a good parts dealer and just ask for anaerobic sealer will they know what I'm talking about? Are there different knds like RTV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 NAPA sells anaerobic sealant, that's where i get mine. be advised it is very expensive for what it is. but i figure for oil pumps it's like a tiny bit of sealant and for the cam carriers i trust it more and don't want to do it again. one nice *feature* is that it doesn't dry out like the grey stuff, so no poking holes or cutting the side of the tube to get stuff out of it! but it is expensive...like 10 bucks a bottle or a little more. the grey stuff will work, stricktly oppinion really - i think the anaerobic sealant is better, less likely to leak and no chance of getting into anywhere it shouldn't. if i only had the other stuff i'd feel confident using it without issue and i'm sure you can as well. i used to use the grey stuff and i thought it leaked easier but that could have been my fault. i never had any major issues with the grey stuff when i used it, it did work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmix99 Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 The anaerobic sealer made by Permatex sold at Napa and elsewhere is expensive. Be aware you also need to buy can of Permatex Activator that you spray on both matting surfaces before applying the anaerobic sealer. Read the tube of anaerobic sealer and it will instruct you how to do so. I did this and had very good results so far---- extremely happy with this product except for the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwst Posted July 25, 2005 Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 Could someone maybe get the PERMATEX part numbers for me for the anerobic sealer and activator? None of my parts stores in Cedar Rapids sell the stuff. I will have to order it or go to a different store. No NAPA in Cedar Rapids anymore. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99obw Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 The activator may improve the performance but it isn't absolutely necessary. The ultra-gray or ultra-black will work fine, no need to special order a sealant. Anaerobic gasket maker Permatex #51531 or 51813 Anaerobic activator Permatex #24163 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwst Posted July 25, 2005 Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 I found a NAPA dealer in a town nearby, my roomate commutes there, and can pick it up for me. Like the idea of the anerobic sealer. Do I apply it just like RTV, in the same thickness? Never worked with the stuff before. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 ...Never worked with the stuff before... Neither have I, but that will end this afternoon. The tube looks like blue RTV... or maybe blue gel toothpaste. BTW, NAPA and Permatex numbers for these products differ, and the name of the prep/activator is also different. They are also pricey, around $15 each. My local NAPA wanted about $3 more for the sealer than another local chain. Still, you don't need much and it is cheap compared to pulling thing out/apart again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwst Posted July 26, 2005 Author Share Posted July 26, 2005 So far this summer, every job I've done, I've done twice because of parts problems...poor quality, bad fit, etc. I will gladly spend the extra money to make sure there aren't any problems. I'm worn out from all the car trauma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmix99 Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 You apply the anaerobic sealer just like the RTV. When you tighten the mounting bolts, you'll see a little squeeze out of the joints. There are detailed instrux on the package or you can visit the Permatex homepage for more info and part numbers. Like I said, I used the activator as well and haven't had any problems.... no leaks.....dry as a bone. Very happy with the results. Maybe next time I'll use Permatex Ultra-Gray for comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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