bjwirth Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 *sigh* Was coming home from a trip this weekend and the CEL comes on. since the car's due for an oil change, I bring the car in to the dealer and ask them to check out what's causing the CEL. Basically they tell me the catalytic converter has gone bad and will cost $960 to fix. I tell them I'll think about it. So when I go to the cashier to pay, I'm told the bill was $94.85. Apparently this dealer likes to charge you 1 hour of labor to check the codes. (somehow I can't believe it took more time to read a code than it took to change the oil) I had NO F-ing idea this was the dealer's policy. I've gone to my BMW dealer a couple of times when the CEL comes on, and all the service advisor does is plug in the scanner and tells me what the problem is and then I'm on my way. If anything I think these two behavior's should be reversed. Do all dealers charge you to check the engine codes?? If autozone does it for free, I'd think a dealer could be "close" as in $10-20 at the most. I naively thought if a bmw dealer does it for free, everyone else must also do it for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattocs Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I asked a local dealer once...they said $20 to pull a code...then I went directly across the street to Autozone and had it pulled for free. You might have been better off buying a code reader :-x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99obw Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 You might want to replace the rear O2 sensor first and see if the code goes away rather than starting with the cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n16ht5 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 that dealer is full if it.. i wouldn't have paid them a dime and left. a single cat, welded in, should never cost more than 200-250 (depending on the cat itself) I don't get how a code could see that the cat is at fault.. take a hammer and hit yours, if it rattles and you hear pieces flying around, then it's bad. otherwise my guess would be an o2 sensor, as someone said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99obw Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I don't get how a code could see that the cat is at fault.. The ECU compares the readings from the O2 sensors before and after the cat to verify that it's working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 take a hammer and hit yours, if it rattles and you hear pieces flying around, then it's bad. otherwise my guess would be an o2 sensor, as someone said. Now that's the way i like to see if things are broken or not I wouldn't have paid for the codes being pulled... just freak out, start yelling, cause a scene... i'm sure the manager would let it slide if you started doing that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwatt Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 *sigh* Was coming home from a trip this weekend and the CEL comes on. since the car's due for an oil change, I bring the car in to the dealer and ask them to check out what's causing the CEL. Basically they tell me the catalytic converter has gone bad and will cost $960 to fix. I tell them I'll think about it. So when I go to the cashier to pay, I'm told the bill was $94.85. Apparently this dealer likes to charge you 1 hour of labor to check the codes. (somehow I can't believe it took more time to read a code than it took to change the oil) I had NO F-ing idea this was the dealer's policy. I've gone to my BMW dealer a couple of times when the CEL comes on, and all the service advisor does is plug in the scanner and tells me what the problem is and then I'm on my way. If anything I think these two behavior's should be reversed. Do all dealers charge you to check the engine codes?? If autozone does it for free, I'd think a dealer could be "close" as in $10-20 at the most. I naively thought if a bmw dealer does it for free, everyone else must also do it for free. I worked at a dealer for years (not a Subaru dealer). Even though I knew it was a rip, I was forced to tell the customers that there would be a check-out charge for any concern that they mentioned, because technicians get paid for diagnosing problems. You're right--it probably took all of 30 seconds to plug that scanner in to the test port, but most dealers impose a minimum diagnostic charge of .5 to 1.0 hour. Did the service advisor tell you (or did you sign the repair order where it stated) that there would be a diagnostic charge? It never ceases to amaze me that dealers still wonder why they loose the customer after the warranty goes away.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjwirth Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 You might want to replace the rear O2 sensor first and see if the code goes away rather than starting with the cat. I had the rear O2 sensor replaced 18 months and 25k miles ago (car now has 90k). would the new O2 sensor crap out already? as far as the $70 charge, the dealer said it would be credited on the repair which is of little consolation to me since I'm probably not going to go back anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99obw Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I had the rear O2 sensor replaced 18 months and 25k miles ago (car now has 90k). would the new O2 sensor crap out already? as far as the $70 charge, the dealer said it would be credited on the repair which is of little consolation to me since I'm probably not going to go back anymore. Are you sure it was the rear sensor? Rear sensor replacement is fairly rare and would probably be done as a result of this code or a similar one being found. Hard to say if it would fail by now. It's not impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonball Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I replaced both sensons about 25-30k ago and I'm getting the CEL again. I got the code pulled and it was a P0420 which is something to do with the rear sensor. Oddly enough the light comes and goes like clock work. Within each tank of gas. SO not sure wht it would do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99obw Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I would start by checking the connector and the ground of the sensor. The rear O2 sensor is a three wire, meaning the signal ground is through the exhaust, so a rusty exhaust could be throwing off the readings. You might try clamping a temporary ground wire to the body of the sensor with a hose clamp and running it to a good ground. You might also ohm out the harness between the rear sensor and the ECU. If that doesn't work I would next replace the rear sensor again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonball Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 I would start by checking the connector and the ground of the sensor. The rear O2 sensor is a three wire, meaning the signal ground is through the exhaust, so a rusty exhaust could be throwing off the readings. You might try clamping a temporary ground wire to the body of the sensor with a hose clamp and running it to a good ground. You might also ohm out the harness between the rear sensor and the ECU. If that doesn't work I would next replace the rear sensor again. Thanx 99, I have a feeling it's the wiring too. I will definitely try your suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtsmiths Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 *sigh*... Basically they tell me the catalytic converter has gone bad and will cost $960 to fix. I tell them I'll think about it. ... And they would STILL have told you the same thing, even if the CEL was thrown by a loose gas cap. You DO ratchet your gas cap down tight, no? You don't say (I think) year and model, or if you bought the car new or used. There was a TSB out about the O2 sensors, and they are supposed to check for free if you car hasn't responded to the TSB. And, if the sensor IS bad, replace it. That said, it will probaly throw CELs off and on for the life of the car, both ours do. We've just learned to ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjwirth Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 And they would STILL have told you the same thing, even if the CEL was thrown by a loose gas cap. You DO ratchet your gas cap down tight, no? You don't say (I think) year and model, or if you bought the car new or used. There was a TSB out about the O2 sensors, and they are supposed to check for free if you car hasn't responded to the TSB. And, if the sensor IS bad, replace it. That said, it will probaly throw CELs off and on for the life of the car, both ours do. We've just learned to ignore it. You know I was searching the forums and came accross some posts about this TSB. I tried to go to the SOA website to find these TSBs but couldn't find them. Do you (or anyone) know where I can find this specific info or what exactly it said? THe car is a 00 forester S, purchased used from a lot (non subaru). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSPFI Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 You know what.. Thats cheap compared to what my old shop used to charge. They were horrible about that kind of stuff. First, It'd be a half hour for LOF which is 40$ Code Read for an hour = 80$ 120$ is what my old ripoff of a shop would have charged! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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