SUBARU3 Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 OK.....I have a real problem. 2.2 Impreza 80K In doing the timing belt, I discover that a pulley was loose. I took it off to check it and discover this!!!! OMG!! Now what. I noticed the belt was wearing on the edge because of this too. What can be done?? welding? JB weld? The bolt catched the last part of the threads, a little less than 1/4", but I'm afraid to tighten to the recommended torque. (I doubt it will torque) This is a perfect engine, with no issues at all, BUT THIS STUPID BOLT! How could this have happened? Factory? This was the original timing belt too! Ideas? suggestions? Look at the pic and weep. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/photos/uploads/144/PDC_0191.JPG Thanks everybody in advance! (I like my Gen 1s a WHOLE LOT BETTER NOW!! LOL Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrand Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 That sucks BIGTIME! I am not an expert on welding or know one, but would try to find someone who is or a board member that has dealt with this before to evaluate the feasibility of repair. I would give the JB Weld a try, if nothing else it would be a heck of a lot less work than having to change the engine due to a broken casting. And the good side is that the engine ws still running when you toer down to replace the T belt I assume. Many years ago my sister had a chev truck in at dealer to diagnose a starter problem, and in changing the starter the morons broke one of the cast mounting flanges off the engine block. Solution was brand new Target Master GM engine and installation, on her bill of course! Old engine was traded to a shade tree mechanic who was able to weld a replacement mounting on to it and drop it in another vehicle. Of course that i a cast iron block. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted August 18, 2005 Author Share Posted August 18, 2005 Yep, the engine was running perfect, but I knew it was WAY overdue for the timing belt. So I figured a few hours and I'd be done! (Yea right!!) Oh there was a piece of aluminum in the timing belt cover too. I'm thinking of having aluminum welded in to area, drill and retap???? Maybe I could drill further into the block, but I don't know how far I can go Maybe I'll be parting a perfectly good 2.2 engine and getting a longblock.........gosh I hope not! Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 That car has probably been wrecked. There was never a stud in that location. Someone has cobbled that together. You would need the missing peice of the block to be welded back into place in order to have a chance of fixing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted August 18, 2005 Author Share Posted August 18, 2005 Actually , the car has not been wrecked. The questions mount! I put that stud in there. I was just trying various options. Trying to decide what to do is not easy in this case! Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 JB weld is a 50/50 shot. I wouldnt recomend it for anything that is buried, as it will prbbly give way again at the worst possible moment. That and you will always know that that peice is there basically glued on. I personally would have it welded, and give yourself peice of mind. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted August 18, 2005 Author Share Posted August 18, 2005 Would it be a good thing to cut this piece off a junk engine and kinda shape it to weld on? What are my welding options? I think it can be done in the car, (lot's of room) Thanks everybody!! Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Would take a lot of force or a defective casting for that to happen. Is the peice of aluminum you found in the timing cover the piece that is missing in the picture? Or did the missing piece from the pic brake of when you took the bolt out. I would think that if that large of a piece of metal was floating around in there with the engine running it would have done some other damage. Can't tell by the pic if it is a fresh brake. If you have the entire piece that is broken out of the block and can fit it back in place and have it welded, you could then drill and Heli-coil the bolt hole if need be. JB weld isn't going to do anything for you. To much load on that bolt, JB will never hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottbaru Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 I'd chop it off, and build a bracket to hold that bolt, using some of the bolt holes around the front of the engine to mount it. Of course I spend my days in a machine shop designing and occasionally building machines, but it's an option for you. You'd need to do some careful measuring and have it bent, welded, and threaded. I'll be in Dallas this winter for a month on business, probably longer than you'd like to wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Would it be a good thing to cut this piece off a junk engine and kinda shape it to weld on? What are my welding options? I think it can be done in the car, (lot's of room) Thanks everybody!! Todd No, I don't think that would be the best idea. If it is off just a little, you will be eating timing belts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted August 18, 2005 Author Share Posted August 18, 2005 There is no other damage to the engine. The car was running perfectly before pulled into the garage to do the belt. I would have never noticed this unless I decided to check all the pulleys. Thank heavens I did! The piece found in the timing belt cover was just a small piece. It looks like a piece from the damaged area, but not all of it. It's amazing it didn't get bounced around under the cover!! I can go and cut a piece from a salvage engine too. I just don't know anything about my welding options. Remember, the bolt is threading tight in the last 1/8-1/4" of the hole. Can the stud just be welded to the block?? And used in place of the bolt? Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 So you don't have the missing piece? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted August 18, 2005 Author Share Posted August 18, 2005 No .... not all of it at least. It must have broke into 2 or 3 pieces when it broke. Strange! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 I just don't know anything about my welding options. Remember, the bolt is threading tight in the last 1/8-1/4" of the hole. Still nothing backing the pully on the top side. Keep in mind the the timing belt load is pulling upward on that pully. Can the stud just be welded to the block?? And used in place of the bolt? Todd Can't weld steel to aluminum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 as suggested above if I were just going to do it in my garage. You can live without a belt cover so that should not be a problem. I have had a motorcycle engine block welded before so I would be pretty sure the right person could do that. Centering the hole and retreading after welding could be a tough job. I just noticed you are in Dallas so I guess I won't reccomend you bring it over. I am near San Francisco. With something like this any fix you do to get more miles out of it are free miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMattyD Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 http://www.aluminumrepair.com/index.htm Check out this website. Based on their claims, you may be able to repair this type of problem yourself. If I were going to use this material, I would leave that stud in there, then build a little mold around it with a large flat washer and nut on the stud, and a piece of thin steel around the side. Then you could heat the area with a torch and melt the aluminum compound to fill the mold. It would be worth a try for the price. I have never used this product, so I can't say if it lives up to its claims, but if you watch the video an the website, it looks impressive. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adnan Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Hi, IMHO, I would not mess with something as important as this. Take it to a shop that does aluminum welding, possibly a place that does heads and have them weld the mounting boss back up. Then, using the original hole, tap a fresh set of threads into it. Regards, Adnan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted August 18, 2005 Author Share Posted August 18, 2005 I really thank everybody for the valuable input! Keep it coming!!!!!!!! It appears that welding in might be the best option. Where should I beging for this type of work? If I have to pull the engine......I'll just replace it then. I believe it can be welded in place. I have the radiator out and there is lot's of room. I had thought that I could tightly wrap wire around the threads and the remainder of the boss, then top of with JB weld. Like I said the threads are tight in the last 1/4 or so of the hole. Can I drill it deeper and thread more?? Man....I'm so depressed about this. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcspeer Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 I cant tell by the picture, but is their any chance that is is part of the waterpump? or something else that is bolted to the block. Just hoping for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted August 19, 2005 Author Share Posted August 19, 2005 No, the h2o pump is on the other side. I wish that was the case! Darn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted August 19, 2005 Author Share Posted August 19, 2005 http://www.aluminumrepair.com/index.htm What's everyone's opinion of this stuff? Matt suggested this. I watched the video and was impressed. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 Block is scrap. youre never going to be able to trust it to hold a timing belt properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted August 19, 2005 Author Share Posted August 19, 2005 Now Shawn.....go to your room! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 (1) Can I drill it deeper and thread more?? Too risky in my opinion. I broke a water pump bolt once on my former Loyale and someone drilled the bolt out and retaped. He drilled a little farther than the original threads and opened up an oil passage = had to replace the engine. (2) I had thought that I could tightly wrap wire around the threads and the remainder of the boss, then top of with JB weld. Like I said the threads are tight in the last 1/4 or so of the hole. If it were my engine I would do something like that. If the broken part is well prepared and JB weld is well applied, i think you could built up that boss so it will hold the pulley. If at all possible, I would begin by dressing up the remaining part and bolt, install the pulley and bolt with red locktite on the remaining threads putting as much torque as I would feel the metal can take and then surround the accessible part of the bolt and boss with JB weld. Even if it takes a few successive coat. If you ever do that, dont forget to buy a new idler pulley cause it will have to remain there for the rest of the engine's life. It's not a nice situation. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted August 19, 2005 Share Posted August 19, 2005 I just looked at the video. If it works as promised it's even better than JB welc cause you could build up the boss around the pulley bolt (without the pulley this time), and then remove the bolt and have new threads. If it does'nt work you could then go back to the JB weld plan. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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