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Spider intake "speedbump" on install


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14 replies to this topic

#1 electryc_monk

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 08:19 PM

Well here we have a fine "speed-bump" on the road to completing this pile of fun.

Okay so the images are attempts to show the "speed-bumps" I'm dealing with. Spent several hours today trying to make the GL-10's throttle cable work in the SPider-intake's throttle attachment point. Nope! Ain't gonna happen unless you can do an ole fishing trick for a cable here.... Cutr the cable and place a fresh stopper on the end of the cable. NOT gonna happen *this time* ....

The XT Turbo's intake is for what ever reason just a weeeeeeee bit to stiff for its own good. Looks like I may have to go buy some radiator hose to temporarily get the car outta the barn and down the road a ways to Bob and Jim who will be helping me put the finiahing touches on the intercooler placement.

The other is the fact that the GL-10 cable is not gonna work so I guess I'm fishing for a XT turbo's? Or maybe just an Xt throttle cable for this spider setup. IT seems that the many, many monbths the setup spent in storage caused a lapse in memory and its throttle cable wasn't there.... only a little stub of the end was there.... like 4-5 inchs is all. (shrugs shoulders) "oh well".....

So any suggestions on both? or either?

Side note looks like I'll be needing to buy a cone air filter....what model numbers have been purchased by ya'll?

I have seen a multitude of them so just ask for part # and brand if that's okay by you? I figure that it'll be between $15- 65 for a cone to bolt up to the MAF; is that a safe yes?

Lastly.... once this car is started then it's gonna be driven to see my uncle Bill(post stroke and heart attack - still not talking much) and the brand spankin new nephew MArcus Adam (I get to call him Marcus Arilious(sp) and my lil' brother-the dad- loves it ) LOL. then return to beaverton and then.... start packing to head back to tejas as soon as possible aftrer that visit and shakedown drive to southern mich. :)

Background I have PM'd a couple folks related to this post before i had the pictures taken...

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#2 oddcomp

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 10:28 PM

i don't have pics but what i did was put a bolt and washer thru the spot on the throttle cam thing that the little lead thing ont he end of the cable fits into

ran the stock rx cable around the cam thing and wrapped it around the bolt and sandwitched it between the washer and throttle cam
its a pain in the arse to do but it works for now

#3 electryc_monk

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Posted 29 August 2005 - 11:01 PM

so i slept on it and had a couple of ideas occur from Step-Dad's help!


got the turbo-spidey tube on.. If its only to drive to the speed shop. :)

and did a temp. fix on the throttle cable too....see? This a hint as to what it'll look like when done over at the speed shop doing the intercooler piping.

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#4 TomRhere

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Posted 30 August 2005 - 04:24 AM

Haven't seen him on here much lately, but CIS Subaru, (aka ohsubaru), (aka Noah) used a Spider intake when he did the CIS swap on the Wagon I now own, (he kept the engine and CIS stuff).

Maybe send him an email and ask what he did for linkage hook-up, don't think a PM would be answered anytime soon. There was an article on here with pics and details, but I can't find it. Maybe got lost along with the rest of the stuff that used to be the USRM.

#5 BoostedBalls

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 08:40 PM

I am about ready to start my spider swap, I plan on using the stock turbo downdraft throttlebody mounted horizontaly on the spider intake. I'm sure I'll have to make an adaptor but that might be easier than messing with throttle cables, good excuse to use the plasma cutter too.

Is there a inside bore difference in the spider unit and the downdraft one?

#6 electryc_monk

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Posted 02 September 2005 - 10:37 PM

Okay so I've had a "here's your sing" event this week with this how shmeeeelll.
While engine was on the bench i did all cleaning of bolts, plates. mating surfaces, hose ends, and generally got rid of any corrosion. Tools at my disposal: wirewheel on one side and grinder on other, drill with wirewheel tip, drill press, files, sandpaper, and cleaners.

eh, about the timing of this beast..... i did the step-by-step cam belt install with the flywheel locked inplace by a metal punch that fit right into one of them holes on it. :brow: Then i got the second belt installed the same way... great now the dizzy went in with no sweat.

First mistake realized after a day and a half with it not starting this week.
Yup. the dizzy was 180 degrees out. You see i somehow forgot to look at the flywheel for a TDC 0 degree setting before installing the dizzy. Ohhh great.

Well after going al over the place (mentally speaking) Larry asked "are you 100% sure its not 180 out? And I said that noi can not be 100% sure of that....

so i walked him thru the steps of a cam belt replacement/install and then the little note about TDC as his second question was about the degree offset for TDC...... Can you see where its going now?

Uh huh. after a cleaning/drying of the plugs and the pair of us realigning the timing for the dizzy and testing of the ignition one more time (once the 180 offset was fixed) to make sure there was still sparking...

in went the plugs..... not ignition and starting but the battery was showing signs of a long day or starter spinning... so on the charger it went and out came the plugs. All four showed some fuel residue, and yes you could also smell the faint wiff of starting fluid.

So the one worry i have is the fuel was purchased in late dec. or early january If I recall correctly and theirs about 1/4 tank left in it... that shouldn't be long enough for the fuel to "go bad? Second, the spider intake was drained instorage but alass i have to admit that i never had the thought to remove the injectors and try to clean them. (all the coolant and air lines and intake airways have all been sprayed and scrubbed clean.... i'm wondering what "ah Hah!" I'll awake with in the morning that'll solve this nonstarting issue.

cam's are set and ignition are right on, plugs are gonna be very dry in the morning as are the chambers as they are venting still...

sooo anyone? What'd you suggest?

#7 BoostedBalls

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 12:22 PM

The piss that comes out of the gas station pumps has a shelf life of 2 weeks. After that, it's quality fades rapidly. After about 9 months it's hardly flamable and begins to coagulate into a nice jelly that likes to plug fuel injectors and fuel filters. This is a real problem with MPFI because if one injector partially clogs, the others try to pick up it's slack and that cylinder runs lean until damage occurs. This is why SPFI usually outlasts MPFI, at the cost of power and efficiency of course.

Old gas also effects the intake valves- The valve opens exposing the stem to the incomming jelly-spray. It of course sticks to the stem and gets dragged into the valve guide when the valve closes. After it does this a few thousand times, the jelly grabs the valve and doesn't allow it to close. This is real bad for most engines because the piston will slam into the valve, not that big of an issue with our little boxers though, just a hassle.

I would dump a couple cans of chimical B12 into the fuel tank and maybe dilute with a couple cans of fresh 92 octane. The octane of the the stuff from January will not give you much performance. I would drain it but then it's hard to despose of.

I would also check that the intake valve closes right before the TDC mark lines up and make sure the marks on the cams still line up. Then make sure the dist is pointing to the #1 cyl. Then it should fire.

Remember FAST:
F- fuel, you have crappy fuel but it should still start, filter clogged?
A- air
S- Spark
T- timing, that's cam and ignition.

If you start with new plugs it will give you a good indication of injector performance. The plugs should look all the same after a few minutes of idleing. If one is a lot lighter than the rest- you have a clogged injector. You can clean them while they are still installed in the engine. Remove the hose right at the injector and blow out the gas, then shoot some carb cleaner in the cavity and put the hose back on to keep from evaporating. Wait a few hours before starting her up.

#8 electryc_monk

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 04:50 PM

okay newsflash... now I have no spark ???? the plugs got wet again so the injectors work... after mucho distractions - finally found the accel website for data on the coil that came with this car when i rescued it back in 1999.

Accel 8140 Super stock 42K V, the primary Ohms=1.2 and 2ndary Ohms= 8.9K

from the company site:
http://www.accel-ign...ndID=3&ID=27339

Now my coil tested out with :
Primary Ohm= 1.6 - 2.0
2ndary Ohm = 6.87K

(scratches head) that seems close enough to be good... will go see if i have a stock/spare coil around the barn??? oh wait nope that's in tejas! (slaps forehead)..well wait a second there it that old steamer trunk in the barn........maybeeeeeeeeeeeee...

still need to go back out to do that "thumb" pressure check... was helping/distracted by the 4.5 and 2.2 y/o nephews still visiting here for the weekend.

more later.

#9 electryc_monk

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 07:46 PM

wow am i feeling the foot-in-mouth factor - bigtime.

After i tested and cleaned the contact places for the coil and the related wires around it... did the "okay lets start from square one like we've never touched this car before" and here's what came of it....

place the 3 lines centered on the bellhousing arrow:
dr side cam was one tooth off
pass side cam was (i don't know how) nearly 90 degrees off
distributor was appearantly near correct position.

reset the cam's methodically slow.
lined up on the TDC ")" for the dizzy reinstal.
....... after abunch of fun and games....

it startred up finally! holds a fast idle at about 1K then tried to use the timing light for figuring out the placement.

tried to find a smooth idle as it was a bit rough... adjusted the dizzy one tooth advanced and tryed the idle screw; then tryed the one tooth retarded from original specing....

nope not good either.... back to rotor at TDC for #1 plug...

well the timing light died.. borrowed a friends and discovered that the idle timing showed up at well over 30degreeeBTDC .
how'd i know this?
I removed the adj screws and slowly turned the distributor in the retarding direction... it kept turning and the engine died at just about 20degrees BTDC.

so then i figured on searching threads and found this one with regard to a "yet again" forgotten factoid about setting timing of the turbo engines.

(side note I would of been scowering(sp) the service manual but, its in the hands of a new friend up here who has a wagon that needs help and i figured i could do without it over the weekend i went to see family down south in Battle creek....well now i need it. and don't have access to it so that's why the searching of threads)

thanks to the comment from "NorthWet":
http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=42584

so now i guess i'll be phoning for my manual as i'll need to findout the piece and where it goes so i can properly tune this engine in.

(lowers head in humble manner) time for food, and to await advice

#10 oddcomp

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 09:10 AM

just curious do you have the pitch stopper bracket for the spider intake?
if your intercooled and don't have it get ready to hear loud bangs on the firewall from the intercooler.. when you shift under boost i could not find a factory bracket so i made one out of various pieces of 1/8-1/4 inch plates welded up and cut shortened the factory firewall to motor rod and rewelded it together for now its big and ugly when i have the time i will pull it off and take a grinder to it and "clean" it up so it looks at least decent but i bet no matter how much power short of running into a brick wall the dam thing won't bend
i'll send you some pics later on if you want to copy it

#11 electryc_monk

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 12:45 PM

Hello Oddcomp, nope I don't have a pitch rod. Haven't had one in since the liftkit install either. Oh BTW the Intercooler isn't going to be a top mount now... its going to be frontmounted. :) But, I am desiring a strut support bar in the not to distant future. :brow: and IIRC i posted a rough jpeg of the enginebay as it was a week ago - in process of install.

#12 oddcomp

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 05:07 PM

Hello Oddcomp, nope I don't have a pitch rod. Haven't had one in since the liftkit install either. Oh BTW the Intercooler isn't going to be a top mount now... its going to be frontmounted. :) But, I am desiring a strut support bar in the not to distant future. :brow: and IIRC i posted a rough jpeg of the enginebay as it was a week ago - in process of install.


since your not gonna be topmounted a strut bat would be easy

#13 electryc_monk

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 04:23 PM

Thanks be to Tomrhere, Calebz and Okami(and crew) for the phone calls...

looks like it runs finally. somehow it was a combo of a few things but, the most exasting thing was that the Jacob's I.C.E. system seems to be dieing/died during this mess and that's gonna have to be delt with much later. So safe to say it drives. and drive okay. just need to do a weee bit of adjusting to the dizzy then i'm gonna take a run to see the battlecreek family then return to beaverton as the "breakin" run..... then head for texas within two weeks from now - iguess.

(lowers head in humble, mental exhaustion)

#14 TomRhere

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 04:20 AM

Happy to hear that you got it running...............

#15 subyrally

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 08:50 AM

go team go. get some pics of the final results for us.




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