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Help with transaxle seals?


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21 replies to this topic

#1 tcspeer

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 06:46 PM

I have been unable to get help on new Gen. board about transaxle seals. That is probably because they do not need changing often, and also I have not been able to find anything about it in the Haynes manuel. Does any one here know anything about changing them? they are leaking the 80-w oil out of front diff. or transaxle. I was told the little cover unscrews on side of diff. if this is true what is used to unscrew it. Mine is a 97 legacy wagon but maybe they change out close to the same way.

#2 Ross

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 06:50 PM

There is a cap that unscrews on the older ones, it has a bolt locking it in place, once thats removed you can unscrew it with anything. I have no idea if the newer ones are similar.

#3 FirstSubaruGLwagon

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 06:53 PM

A local transmission guy told me that Foresters where having that problem

#4 tcspeer

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 07:14 PM

There is a cap that unscrews on the older ones, it has a bolt locking it in place, once thats removed you can unscrew it with anything. I have no idea if the newer ones are similar.


Thanks Ross, I just found a picture on the C.D. service manuel and it looks just like what you said.

G.L. Wagon: mine has good reason to leak with nearly 300,000 miles on it, dont know why the new Foresters would be having problems.

#5 Ragnor

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 08:39 PM

All Transaxle seals I have ever encountered just pop out with a screwdriver.

Just pull the axle, stick the blade of a BIG screwdriver in behind the seal, between the seal and the trany and twist your wrist levering the seal out of its place "E-Z". place the new seal flush against the hole where the seal seats. place a large socket or old wheel bearing over the seal and gently tap if flush stuff the axle back in and your good to go.
NOW if there are 3 bolts holding it in place, well remove them and follow the same steps as much as is nessasary.

#6 tcspeer

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 09:10 PM

All Transaxle seals I have ever encountered just pop out with a screwdriver.

Just pull the axle, stick the blade of a BIG screwdriver in behind the seal, between the seal and the trany and twist your wrist levering the seal out of its place "E-Z". place the new seal flush against the hole where the seal seats. place a large socket or old wheel bearing over the seal and gently tap if flush stuff the axle back in and your good to go.
NOW if there are 3 bolts holding it in place, well remove them and follow the same steps as much as is nessasary.


The printout from the E.S.M. shows that their is one bolt holding the differential side retainer, then it looks like it can be removed with the screwdriver as you said.

#7 ShawnW

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 10:20 PM

Careful here....

The trans seals are retained in a threaded insert that threads into the side of the transmission case. This threaded seal holder is threaded to a certain pressure against the differential stubs. If you arent having any trouble with clunking in the front end then mark your trans case and the threaded seal holder to each other before you start unthreading it out of the case. This is known as "backlash" and messing with it is not for the novice mechanic as you can do SEVERE damage to the front ring and pinion gears.

Leaks from these seals arent limited to any model and they all use basically the same seal from the factory. Not sure how there would be something special limited to Foresters but i suppose thats possible.

#8 ShawnW

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 10:21 PM

There is a cap that unscrews on the older ones, it has a bolt locking it in place, once thats removed you can unscrew it with anything. I have no idea if the newer ones are similar.


Same thing on the newer ones. This is the seal holder im talking about. I like your description of it better than mine.

#9 tcspeer

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Posted 30 September 2005 - 10:25 PM

Careful here....

The trans seals are retained in a threaded insert that threads into the side of the transmission case. This threaded seal holder is threaded to a certain pressure against the differential stubs. If you arent having any trouble with clunking in the front end then mark your trans case and the threaded seal holder to each other before you start unthreading it out of the case. This is known as "backlash" and messing with it is not for the novice mechanic as you can do SEVERE damage to the front ring and pinion gears.

Leaks from these seals arent limited to any model and they all use basically the same seal from the factory. Not sure how there would be something special limited to Foresters but i suppose thats possible.


Thanks Shawn, I will be sure and mark it like you said.

#10 jimfman

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 11:47 AM

All Transaxle seals I have ever encountered just pop out with a screwdriver.

Just pull the axle, stick the blade of a BIG screwdriver in behind the seal, between the seal and the trany and twist your wrist levering the seal out of its place "E-Z". place the new seal flush against the hole where the seal seats. place a large socket or old wheel bearing over the seal and gently tap if flush stuff the axle back in and your good to go.
NOW if there are 3 bolts holding it in place, well remove them and follow the same steps as much as is nessasary.

When I pulled the drive shaft out the axle seal fell out with it. The one I got to replace has a "flat" side and an "cupped" side. Does anyone know or better yet have a picture / diagram the depicts which way the seal goes back into the transaxle? Flat side or cupped side in?

Thanks



#11 Gloyale

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:14 PM

All Transaxle seals I have ever encountered just pop out with a screwdriver.

Just pull the axle, stick the blade of a BIG screwdriver in behind the seal, between the seal and the trany and twist your wrist levering the seal out of its place "E-Z". place the new seal flush against the hole where the seal seats. place a large socket or old wheel bearing over the seal and gently tap if flush stuff the axle back in and your good to go.
NOW if there are 3 bolts holding it in place, well remove them and follow the same steps as much as is nessasary.

 

You've never done a Subaru one have you?

 

They are pressed into the retainer cup from the inside.  You cannot pry them out without removing the retainer.

 

 

 

When I pulled the drive shaft out the axle seal fell out with it. The one I got to replace has a "flat" side and an "cupped" side. Does anyone know or better yet have a picture / diagram the depicts which way the seal goes back into the transaxle? Flat side or cupped side in?

Thanks

 

Someone already put the wrong one in then if it fell out. Or the dealership did a "warranty fix" with a stupid glue in lip that goes in the dust boot of the axle cup supposed to slow leaks(just to get you out of warranty they do this)It's a "quickie fix" glue on crap they try to sell you to slow the leak   In fact that may be what was in there or what you got already.  Very
strange they started doing added seal glued into the axle end.....dumb....doesn't work.

 

You need to get the actual correct seals from the dealer. 

 

Get the actual OE seal that installs INSIDE the retainer cup.  Looks like any skirted, sprung lip seal.  There is a left and rigth directional seals so get them both.

 

Then remove the retainer cups one side at a time.  Make sure to mark there position, and count the # of turns as you take it out.  Reinstall to the excact same position.

 

Then do the other side same way.


Edited by Gloyale, 19 March 2014 - 01:22 PM.


#12 tirod

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:36 AM

Manual or automatic? 

 

Auto seals are inserted on the back side of the differential preload plates that screw in. Manuals are inserted into the OUTSIDE of the plates, Chilton and Haynes are very poor at pointing out the difference and WILL misdirect you. 

 

A general surf online will find posts and how - to's for each and the difference will become very clear. 

 

I have an auto, it's very clear that the seals cannot be installed from the outside - just hold up the seal to the opening, it's bigger and apparent it's been installed on the back of the plate. It was NOT like my Chilton's explained in it's vague reference to the paragraph on it in the manual section. On the internet, I found plenty of pics of owners pulling out manual seals and installing them without loosening the preload plates. And auto owners cursing their finished job when the diff began howling a week later due to changes in the preload. 

 

Another bright idea from Subaru. Anyway, since mine weren't leaking before, I let them be until they prove different. If it ain't broke don't fix it. 

 

Outside seals   http://forums.nasioc...d.php?t=1097344

 

Inside seals      http://forums.nasioc...d.php?t=1602465



#13 Gloyale

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 10:31 AM

Manual or automatic? 

 

Auto seals are inserted on the back side of the differential preload plates that screw in. Manuals are inserted into the OUTSIDE of the plates, Chilton and Haynes are very poor at pointing out the difference and WILL misdirect you. 

 

This is incorrect.

 

All of the 4eat and 5spd transmissions, the seals install from INSIDE.

 

The only ones that press in from outside are on the old 3AT that was used in the GL/Loyales......those haven't been used in any Legacy/Impreza/Forrester....and apparently some 6spds.

The thread you link to as "outside" seals is for a 6spd.



#14 jarl

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:19 AM

Is there a necroposting record board or something? Because this one has to be a record (close to 8 1/2 years!), or very close to it ;)



#15 johnceggleston

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:29 PM

Because this one has to be a record (close to 8 1/2 years!)

true,

 

but the seals and the retainer cups on the 90s auto trans have not changed any.

so the info is still valid.



#16 tirod

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 10:00 AM

Didn't see the age of the first post. 

 

Thanks for clearing up what generations use what, it points out again how much misinformation exists in some sources and why we need to be specific about make year model. They obviously aren't all the same. 

 

It also goes to asking why Subaru made this such an obtuse service procedure. Could it be their view that the average Japanese owner would never see the need to replace them? The JDM market junks cars at half the mileage we do.


Edited by tirod, 21 March 2014 - 10:00 AM.


#17 poolskaterpt

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:42 PM

My Manual seals are pressed in from the inside.

 

**** DO ONE SIDE AT A TIME- DO NOT TAKE BOTH SIDES OUT AT ONCE IF YOU ARE PLANNING TO DO THIS WITHOUT REMOVING THE TRANNY*****

 

Mark the retainer plates and tap on them with a wooden dowel to break them free and then count the turns out,  making sure that once they are loose enough to loosen by hand that you apply a pulling force so you can feel exactly where the threads are freed up. The seals provide a little friction so it won't be really sloppy when the very fine threads have disengaged. Mark the point where the threads let go so you know where to start counting your turns back in.

 

This is important as the plates set the preload on driver and backlash on passenger. That is why you do not pull both sides out simultaneously unless you are removing the entire tranny to use the special tool and the required weight.

 

This method assumes the preload and backlash were dialed in prior to removal.

 

I just went through this, be meticulous.



#18 Fairtax4me

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 06:59 PM

Didn't see the age of the first post.

Thanks for clearing up what generations use what, it points out again how much misinformation exists in some sources and why we need to be specific about make year model. They obviously aren't all the same.

It also goes to asking why Subaru made this such an obtuse service procedure. Could it be their view that the average Japanese owner would never see the need to replace them? The JDM market junks cars at half the mileage we do.


The axle stubs do not come out of the trans unless the case is opened. This means there is no chance of damaging the axle seals during an axle change. They are not exposed to dirt or sharp edges during an axle change which is generally when axle seals start leaking. Many EJ transmissions make it 250k miles or more and never have leaks from the axle seals.

#19 jimfman

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 11:27 AM

You've never done a Subaru one have you?

 

They are pressed into the retainer cup from the inside.  You cannot pry them out without removing the retainer.

 

 

 

 

Someone already put the wrong one in then if it fell out. Or the dealership did a "warranty fix" with a stupid glue in lip that goes in the dust boot of the axle cup supposed to slow leaks(just to get you out of warranty they do this)It's a "quickie fix" glue on crap they try to sell you to slow the leak   In fact that may be what was in there or what you got already.  Very
strange they started doing added seal glued into the axle end.....dumb....doesn't work.

 

You need to get the actual correct seals from the dealer. 

 

Get the actual OE seal that installs INSIDE the retainer cup.  Looks like any skirted, sprung lip seal.  There is a left and rigth directional seals so get them both.

 

Then remove the retainer cups one side at a time.  Make sure to mark there position, and count the # of turns as you take it out.  Reinstall to the excact same position.

 

Then do the other side same way.

I am talking about the seal at the REAR of the transaxle for the drive shaft that head to the rear Dif. there are NOT sides to it only the single shaft headin to the rear end. From the diagram in the chilton book there are NOT any retainer cups. Just the pressed in seal. Unfortunately the diagram isn't specific enough to detail if the "flat" side goes in first or the "Cupped" side goes in first.

Thanks for response.



#20 Gloyale

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 11:49 AM

I am talking about the seal at the REAR of the transaxle for the drive shaft that head to the rear Dif. there are NOT sides to it only the single shaft headin to the rear end. From the diagram in the chilton book there are NOT any retainer cups. Just the pressed in seal. Unfortunately the diagram isn't specific enough to detail if the "flat" side goes in first or the "Cupped" side goes in first.

Thanks for response.

 

Well.....if you are talkin about the rear output.....then yes it pops out, presses in .....>E-Z>

 

When you say "transaxle" seals I think we all assumed you were talking about the front outputs......which are the transaxle.  That's what this whole thread is about.

 

The rear output on anything but a subaru......would be part of a RWD "transmission"........no axle.



#21 jimfman

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 11:45 AM

Well.....if you are talkin about the rear output.....then yes it pops out, presses in .....>E-Z>

 

When you say "transaxle" seals I think we all assumed you were talking about the front outputs......which are the transaxle.  That's what this whole thread is about.

 

The rear output on anything but a subaru......would be part of a RWD "transmission"........no axle.

Which direction does the seal go back into the transaxle, the seal has a flat side and a (sort of) cupped side to it. which side goes into the transaxle first. if you had a diagram or a pic would be great. Sorry for the confusion, i may have caused. 



#22 Gloyale

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 11:48 AM

Which direction does the seal go back into the transaxle, the seal has a flat side and a (sort of) cupped side to it. which side goes into the transaxle first. if you had a diagram or a pic would be great. Sorry for the confusion, i may have caused. 

 

Rear output or Side outputs?

 

Typically the "cupped" side goes in......Flat side out.






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