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Loyale stalled, won't restart


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22 replies to this topic

#1 SakoTGrimes

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 07:50 AM

Yesterday I changed the oil (much easier the second time) I thought I put in 4.5 quarts but the dipstick looks like it has about 6. I started the car at 5:20 this morning and it made all kinds of bad whining noises. I figured the engine was just dry and the oil was cold so I went inside to get some things while I let the engine get warm. When I went outside (about 3 minutes later) the engine was off and I couldn't get it to restart. Plenty of charge, the oil is definately still in there. Could overfilling it prevent starting? Help!

#2 Cougar

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 11:31 AM

It could cause a problem by whipping the oil up. Did you check the level again to see if the filter took in some of the level.

Have you checked for spark yet and fuel delivery?

#3 SakoTGrimes

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 02:31 PM

I have not checked for spark or fuel delivery. How's that done? I checked the oil level th morning after, so I'm sure the filter is full now.

#4 Cougar

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 02:52 PM

To see if there is a fuel problem you can spray some starter fluid into the intake and see if will try to start then. If it does try to start then you know the spark is good and you need to check the fuel system.

To check for spark I would get a spare sparkplug and place it in one of the plugwires on a good engine ground point. Then see if the sparkplug fires while you try to start it.

#5 TomRhere

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 07:24 PM

Popped the driverside T-belt maybe?!?!! Or maybe that pesky little screw that holds the rotor came out. Pull the disty cap, watch rotor while someone cranks engine. If rotor don't move, it's either the screw, or the T-belt.

Just my best guess......

#6 SakoTGrimes

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Posted 04 October 2005 - 09:04 PM

Both timing belts only have about 5500 miles on them, but I will check that tomorrow. What difference would it make if the passenger side belt broke? Is that screw on the rotor itself or is it underneath or someplace?

#7 zyewdall

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Posted 05 October 2005 - 10:25 AM

Both timing belts only have about 5500 miles on them, but I will check that tomorrow. What difference would it make if the passenger side belt broke? Is that screw on the rotor itself or is it underneath or someplace?


If the passenger side timing belt broke, it would just run like crap on the two drivers side cylinders. If the drivers side breaks, the distributor stops too, and it won't run at all. In my experience, the drivers side one always goes first.

The screw is on the side of the rotor holding it to the shaft -- some of them don't have them, but I think all the later EA82's do.

#8 NorthWet

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Posted 05 October 2005 - 02:19 PM

Basics: Take a look at your spark plugs. I have not filled a Subaru oil pan to see how much oil it holds, but it is possible that 6 quarts will overflow the pan, possibly enough for the crank to spin into it. excess oil could be forced out into the cylinders, flooding the oil rings and allowing oil to pass into the combustion chambers.

Anyway, look for fouled plugs.

#9 SakoTGrimes

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 04:43 AM

Yep, those plugs were definately RIPed. New platinum Boschs didn't make it start. I'm getting really frustrated with my car now. I'll give it a week and then put it in the marketplace. And yeah I drained the oil to a proper level.

#10 Cougar

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 04:52 AM

Have you checked yet to make sure that spark is getting to the plugs? If spark is getting to the plugs then try spraying some starter fluid into the intake to see if if that will make it fire up.

#11 nipper

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 06:36 AM

Have you even tried to take out the excesive oil yet? or are you still trying to run it with "what looks like 6 qts". 6qt overfill if that is possible, is a HUGE amount of overfill on something that holds 4.5. Sounds like the engine is flooded wit oil. In the future if you start up a car like that, and its never sounded like that before, and it doesnt clearup in a few seconds, dont walk away from the car, shut it off. Thats how you can do damage to the engine.

Overfilling can flood the pistons, and cause the oil to foam. Oil sits below the crankshaft not in it. If the oil makes contact with the crankshaft, it becomes airated. Once the oil has become so agitated that it has foamed (airated) it can no longer be sufficently pumped, and therefor no longer acts like oil. The oil pump cannot pump air.
Hope you didnt waste the engine.

nipper

#12 SakoTGrimes

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Posted 07 October 2005 - 10:49 PM

I think there was about 6 qt.s total, not 6 in addition to 4.5, I did drain it down to around 4.5. The engine probably ran for 1.5-2.5 minutes before stalling and I've cranked it maybe 25 seconds after that, so if the oil level was high enough for the crank to toss it around, I'm sure the cylinders have some in there. How would it get past the rings though, aren't those pretty close to airtight? And if the oil got all foamed up, could that be fixed with a cleaning-out, or would the pistons already be toast?

#13 zyewdall

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 12:39 AM

If the oil got foamed up, it should just go down by itself after sitting a while. I am trying to figure out why it would have stalled with too much oil though. If it got foamed and the oil pump stopped pumping it, you could have damaged bearings from not having oil, but that wouldn't cause it to not start I don't think. Unless it seized a bearing. I don't know if that could happen in only a few minutes with no load though. Did it put out blue smoke by any chance? If oil got in to the back of the pistons, it can get into the cylinders past the back of the rings and burn (subaru's do this if tilted severely to one side or the other). Perhaps so much got in there that it fouled the plugs really bad? Have you looked at the plugs yet?

Zeke

#14 SakoTGrimes

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Posted 08 October 2005 - 09:09 PM

The plugs it had when I got it were completely filthy, so I changed them for Bosch platinums. I tried to start it again yesterday and it looks like everything that should be spinning is, I have video, but still no start. I haven't yet checked for spark or used starting fluid.

update = spark plugs are firing, not fouled, running started motor without spark plugs didn't pump out anything

#15 SakoTGrimes

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 03:52 AM

bumb

Anybody? Anybody?

#16 TomRhere

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 04:07 AM

If you turn the key to the "on" position, (not cranking engine), do you hear the fuel pump run? It should run for a second or two, then shut off. If you don't hear pump run, it's either the pump died, or the fuel pump relay died. Worst case would be the ECU has a problem in the circuit for the fuel pump, it controls the ground for the fuel pump relay.

edit--Could be that the fuse, or fuseable link went also. Not sure which fuse or link it would be though, as I'm not real familar with the EA-82 cars. end edit---

#17 SakoTGrimes

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 04:29 AM

Yes, I hear the pump run. If it IS a computer problem, there's no way my electronicly impaired self will be able to remedy it.

#18 TomRhere

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 04:36 AM

Hmmmm. If it runs with key "on", then it should run otherwise like during crank and run.
Wonder if maybe the injector died. Just guessing there.....

#19 zyewdall

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 02:37 PM

Are there any trouble codes on the ECU? I think on this car you connect the two white plugs by the wiper motor in the engine compartment together, and look for a blinking light on the ECU under the steering wheel. At least that's how it is on my '87

If no codes, try a little ether in the throttle body and see if it kicks over then. If you can smell ether coming out of the tail pipe, but still no sputtering, it seems like its some spark/ecu problem, not a fuel problem then.

#20 Cougar

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 07:24 PM

I would spray some starter fluid into the intake as was suggested. If that makes the engine fire then you have a injector problem most likely and need to measure the voltage to the injector and check the resistance of the injector coil if there is voltage getting to it.

If the engine doesn't fire with the starter fluid then you need to check the compression on both sides of the engine. One of the timing belts may have broken.

#21 Ru_

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 08:17 PM

alright...here is my experiences...i've been around these ea82's for 5 years now and here is what I'd check. Err Drivers Side.... side timing belt...ALWAYS GOES!! check that belt first. Easiest way is to pull the distributor cap off, have someone crank the engine and see if it spins. THAT being said IF IT DOES SPIN that doen't mean the belt is good. I have had the Teeth rip off the belt and it still spin the cam,just out of time...so pull that timing belt cover off and see if there are still teeth on it,have someone crank it while you watch the belt go around. Is the timing belt tight? maybe it was too loose and jumped a few teeth...Or debris got in there and made it jump a few teeth? I haven't seen it happen on a subaru yet, but I have seen it happen on a Mazda 323 GTX. Next, since you have the distributor cap off, grab the rotor and try and turn it on the shaft. if it turns, look for the screw in the distributor and re-install it. It goes under the flat porton of the rotor,opposite the sparking end into the shaft....through the rotor of course....it's a little difficult and the engine might have to be bumped to get the rotor shaft in the right spot. Of course there is no alignment pins, knubbs or slots on the shaft to keep the rotor properly aligned, so you'll have to pull the rotor off, IF IT SPINS FREELY OF COURSE, and see where the hole for the screw is. IF THE ROTOR IS fastened correctly, check spark...and all related systems, fuses, fuse links etc. I have yet to see a coil pack in, along with a fuel pump but I am sure it happenes. Check fuel supply.....pull the boot off of the throttle body, have someone crank and it should squirt fuel, visibly, out of the injecor, not to mention those SPFI injectors click pretty loud. if it clicks but no spray, then fuel is not getting there. If nothing at all, try and Unplug the Mass Airflow Meter and do the same test again, I am not sure if the computer needs to sense airflow to inject durning starting, but unplugging the mass airflow meter will cause the computer to run off of a pre-programmed map, so it SHOULD inject forsure. Come to think of it, if ya wanted to nail 2 birds with one stone, pull the distributor OFF the cam tower, with cap installed, wires attached pull a plug, take the intake boot off, and spin the gear end of the distributor by hand, check for spark and injector functioning at the same time. (key needs to be in the ON position for this) Keep clear of EVERYTHING that spins on the engine....it JUST MIGHT TRY AND KICK if any of the plugs are left in the engine and hooked to the plug wires.If you have no Idea how to re-install the distributor properly and time it, I'd advise agaist it....unless you want to learn. But you better get a manual if you've never done it before.

Ok to re-cap,check timing belt on drivers side....it always goes! check fuel and spark. If all of that is ok....unplug the mass airflow meter and try cranking. Like I said I can't remember if it needs a mass airflow reading for starting injection or not, but it's worth a try. As for that, I have no more ideas. The only time mine has ever just quit was when the timing belt gave out. Well check that stuff out...let us know....we'll figure it out.

Ya I meant drivers side!

#22 85Sub4WD

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 10:48 PM

Passenger side timing belt...ALWAYS GOES!! check that belt first. Easiest way is to pull the distributor cap off, have someone crank the engine and see if it spins.

you mean driver's side for us - my family has owned an '85 since new (I converted it to FI last year, and have done most of the maitnence myself since I was in 5th grade), and I doubt the timing belt went like that, but it is a possibility

Supposedly the engine runs for about 5 seconds and dies with a disconnected MAF - I would check the throttle body and all to see if oil was forced into the intake and plumbing - that could cause this sort of problem

I would also check the coolant sensor for the computer (right under T-stat and near oil fill tube - green connector) - that can also cause a no-start/hard start

The critical electrical/FI components for a start - working Crank Angle Sensor (distribuitor), Working fuel injector, Working computer, Working coil, Working ignition amplifier (ignitor - that transistor below the ignition coil), working fuel pump - coolant sensor is not neccessary, but it is hard to start without it

This is in addition to the normal plugs, wires, etc. that all engines have

there is a good trouble shooting section in the second part of the EA 82 manual on this site it covers no-start conditions in GREAT detail
http://www.finleyweb...ault.asp?id=142

to make sure the oil is out of your cylinders, I would pull all plugs (note wires) and I would spray WD-40 or equiv into each of the holes (put a good amount in), wait a few minutes, and (with the ignition system disabled) crank the engine for a while, then put it all back together and try!! (don't forget to clean the plugs)

Good luck!!

#23 Ru_

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 06:42 AM

ya know....those optical distributors the 88+ cars have, are common with a nissan stanza I think it is....well nissan something anyways! and they always pack in on the nissan's, have never seen a subie distributor pack in yet...I had my loyale up to 475,000kms with the original disty on it....No clue why but the nissan ones always pack in. Maybe, IF THERE IS NO SPARK OR FUEL INJECTOR action, the led's packed in in the distributor. I have only ever had one apart....and oddly enough it was perfectly clean and dry inside...sealed well. The nissan's tend to spin the trigger plate on the shaft...ya it actually rips the plate past the dowel. Check your computer. Just turn the key on and there is a lamp on the computer under the drivers side dash....you might have to pull a little bit of paneling off, but it's right up on the steering shaft, and the led indicator light is facing you when you look at the computer, just a little hole. Just turn the key on and it'll flash codes in U-Check mode. You don't have to plug anything in or play with any wires. If it's computer related to why it's not starting, it'll flash the codes for it. Next week, CLEARING those codes! AWWhh my god what a mess they got ya doing for that! lol




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