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Locked Rear Questions


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41 replies to this topic

#1 MSSLGECKO

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 11:46 PM

I'm really wanting to put a welded rear diff. in my wagon and have a few questions before I do it:

1. I have read some brief descriptions of how to disengage a rear axle for on-road driving, but it is still unclear to me how you do this. Any help?

2. 3WD(?) Obviously w/ a disengaged axle, in 4Hi&Lo I will be in 3WD; so it warrants a few questions - For light offroading, is it decent? I frequently like to pull off the road when I see mud/dirt/ruts/anything and pop into 4WD, will I be able to move myself around decently? Is it possible to run in 3WD on pavement?

Thanks guys. I'm excited to have a locked diff. and see what it can do!

#2 FirstSubaruGLwagon

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 11:56 PM

shame warn doesnt make some sort of locking hub for the subee rearend. then the wheels could spinn freely

#3 VaporTrail

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Posted 13 October 2005 - 11:58 PM

I'm really wanting to put a welded rear diff. in my wagon and have a few questions before I do it:

1. I have read some brief descriptions of how to disengage a rear axle for on-road driving, but it is still unclear to me how you do this. Any help?

2. 3WD(?) Obviously w/ a disengaged axle, in 4Hi&Lo I will be in 3WD; so it warrants a few questions - For light offroading, is it decent? I frequently like to pull off the road when I see mud/dirt/ruts/anything and pop into 4WD, will I be able to move myself around decently? Is it possible to run in 3WD on pavement?

Thanks guys. I'm excited to have a locked diff. and see what it can do!


1. Just take the axle out.

2. with one axle out, you still don't want to put it in 4WD on the pavement, as you'll still be locked front to back, and have binding problems.
i wouldn't want to go into too nasty of mud without it. if you get the side with the axle in the air, and one of the fronts in the air, it'll be just like you had an open diff. except you'll never get traction from the wheel without the axle....

#4 torxxx

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 12:04 AM

Just take the axle out doesnt really work for guys with 4 inch lifts though. I dont know how hard it is to get an axle off on your 3 inch lift, but mine takes two people and a 8 foot pipe for leverage.

#5 Numbchux

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 12:38 AM

Just take the axle out doesnt really work for guys with 4 inch lifts though. I dont know how hard it is to get an axle off on your 3 inch lift, but mine takes two people and a 8 foot pipe for leverage.


??? I can almost take my axle off without jacking up the car, certainly without lifting a tire off the ground!

#6 Turbone

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 12:49 AM

Just take the axle out doesnt really work for guys with 4 inch lifts though. I dont know how hard it is to get an axle off on your 3 inch lift, but mine takes two people and a 8 foot pipe for leverage.


It really dpends on how your lift is made. Mine has the rear diff on a hanger, so my axles are almost level. And thats with 8in of lift. I have a small floor jack I keep with me, but I discovered that I still needed to lift the other tire. And it was still not enough! I need to carry a block of wood so I can get the tire off the ground enough to turn, this is needed to get the pin in the cup and line up the splines.

#7 torxxx

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 02:01 AM

??? I can almost take my axle off without jacking up the car, certainly without lifting a tire off the ground!


you have a shortcut I dont know about? u take the bottom strut nut off or not to change an axle?

#8 MSSLGECKO

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 02:51 AM

I thought there was a way that you could disengage an axle w/out fully removing it (?).

So, no 3WD drifting on pavement. Damnit.

#9 VaporTrail

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 08:23 AM

??? I can almost take my axle off without jacking up the car, certainly without lifting a tire off the ground!


yes, since your rear lift extends your axles becausee diff stays high. miine too, since I clocked the torsion bars.

I usually jack up the whole rear end so I can spin it to get at the pins easier.

#10 Numbchux

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 09:17 AM

no, can't disengage it without removing it...

torxxx, I'm not sure what you mean by the 'bottom strut nut' I just pound out the pins, and slide it off the stubs, with my high clearance aa lift, there's almost enough axle angle/DOJ play that I can get the cups off the stubs without jacking up the car. this will change some when I add the SJR diff shim.

#11 operose

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 12:49 PM

I'm in the process of seeing how viable it will be to put a locking rear diff from an audi into my xt6... will let you all know how it works out

#12 Ryanb

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 01:32 PM

On the Audi diff....please do let us know.

#13 MSSLGECKO

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 01:53 PM

Audi locking diff.? Never heard of it - what's it out of? Sounds interesting.

#14 MorganM

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 02:08 PM

I'm in the process of seeing how viable it will be to put a locking rear diff from an audi into my xt6... will let you all know how it works out


Are you refering to an Audi Torsen diff? That's an LSD not a locker.

#15 soobme

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 02:29 PM

Torsen's are a little diferent animal all together. Not quite an LSD, not quite a locker. For the moste part they will work like an open diff., BUT with a little brake modulation U can get them to lock up just like a locker(even with 1 tire off the ground) No cluches to wear out or need special lube, and no noises coming from the diff. like a locker.

If U make that work PLEASE let us know! I would LOVE to have Torsens front and rear!

#16 MorganM

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 02:33 PM

Torsen's are a little diferent animal all together. Not quite an LSD, not quite a locker. For the moste part they will work like an open diff., BUT with a little brake modulation U can get them to lock up just like a locker(even with 1 tire off the ground) No cluches to wear out or need special lube, and no noises coming from the diff. like a locker.

If U make that work PLEASE let us know! I would LOVE to have Torsens front and rear!


It's classified as type limited slip diff not as a type of locker though :)

#17 jaws dawg

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 02:55 PM

What Audi was this diff out of? The guy I got my 13" BFG mud terrains from has PILES of Audi and VW parts!!!

#18 singletrack

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 03:09 PM

Typically one side will require you to detach the strut or some such nonesense to get the axle out. Consequently, the other side will come out very easy. Remove the easy side!

I usually just drive onto a rock to lift a tire. Use cotter pins instead of spring pins and keep the spindles clean, the job takes like 3 minutes.


BTW, I just took my locker OUT, it wasn't worth giving up on-the-fly-4x and didn't work very well in a dry environment. If there was mud here I might think differently. I can always put it back in for special occasions!

#19 operose

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 04:20 PM

yes it's a torsen from an audi quattro. but it does lock... my daily driver is an audi that has this locking rear, and when I lock it and drive on dry pavement or in circles it binds just like a regular locked rear....

#20 carfreak85

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 04:44 PM

Typically one side will require you to detach the strut or some such nonesense to get the axle out. Consequently, the other side will come out very easy. Remove the easy side!

I usually just drive onto a rock to lift a tire. Use cotter pins instead of spring pins and keep the spindles clean, the job takes like 3 minutes.


BTW, I just took my locker OUT, it wasn't worth giving up on-the-fly-4x and didn't work very well in a dry environment. If there was mud here I might think differently. I can always put it back in for special occasions!


Wow, that sounds easy enough. I might just get a locked rear now, because I was worried about how hard it would be to remove/replace on the trail/

#21 jaws dawg

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Posted 14 October 2005 - 06:26 PM

I found 2 audi quattros recently (last weekend) in west wa. One is an Audi 100 at All Auto Wrecking off of pacific hwy 7 on the left side before you get to Graham. The other is a 200 turbo at Pull-a-Part on 112th behind McChord AFB. There is also an audi guy in Centrailia, Maximillian (DON"T CALL HIM MAX, HE REALLY DOESN"T LIKE IT), the place is called AVS German. His prices are fair if the other wrecking yards don't have one.

Note: I have an older Audi and used parts are often the only way I can afford to go.

#22 stinky

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 12:12 AM

Cut one of your stub axles short to just after the holes for the pins. This allows you enough room to remove a rear CV without lifting the car. You still need to lift that side of the car to put it in to get the holes lined up.

I can remove one in about 5 minutes, and put one in in about 10-15mins.

offroading in 3wd is fine, as long as you don't go too hard. It's almost as capable as an open diff ( unless you lift the wheel with the CV still in ). Although it can try and pull the rear end to one side.

#23 operose

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 12:58 PM

"The Torsen center diff appeared after the 1988 model year. Prior
to that, there is a open diff with manual locks. In either case,
the center diff is integrated into the transmission and you don't
have to worry about it with respect to driveshafts.

The rear diff on most Audi quattros (except the V8 or the Haldex cars) are open
diffs, either with manual locking (some with auto-unlocking at
speeds above 15mph), or with EDL via the ABS system on the post-96 cars."



http://www.audifans....ber/085560.html


from the way I understand it... this means that it actually _IS_ a locking rear, not just an LSD knock-off....



"Now there is still the problem of slip. If one wheel in one of these cars is spinning, nothing else moves. So the first generation Quattro cars have what are called "differential locks" for the center and rear differential. When the lock is activated the two axles connected to the differential *cannot* rotate at different speeds, they are locked together. So if one rear wheel is in mud or on ice and the other has traction, locking the rear differential makes the tire with good traction spin at the same speed as the one without - and you drive away. These locks require driver input and knowledge, however (ie, you must know when they are appropriate, to engage or disengage them). The "Torque Sensing" or "Torsen" differential is a slightly different animal. Rather than having the ability to let one axle spin and the other not move at all, it allocates the "push" to whatever axle is actually "using" it. Most of the time this is unnoticeable, but in our hypothetical of one wheel spinning, the Torsen limits the spinning wheel to 75% of the amount of power going to that pair of axles - and the other tire gets some "push" and you are out of the slipperies. That's what a "Torsen" is. A differntial that does not require locks to deal with very slippery ("low Cf" - Coefficient of friction) situations. "

http://www.humanspea...audi/torsen.htm


if you have an impreza with 4.11 gears you can pick up a 4.11 locking rear diff from an audi with 90k miles for $250 here:
http://www.sjmautote.../S4_Parts2.html

and here is a link to all the information I have compiled so far:

http://eagle.bsd.st/...udidifflock.txt

#24 MorganM

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 02:22 PM

I'm completly enlightend; it is a locking diff.

#25 Sweet82

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Posted 18 October 2005 - 02:45 PM

So...3.89 gears?
not..3.90 gears?

What's a tenth anyway...:lol:

Watching, Wondering,
Waiting how this will all turn out...

Developing a Locker would be a major step forward for Subieists.

Keep on Raging!
Glenn
82 SubaruHummer--welded
84 GL Mad Max--open
01 Forester--Limited




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