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torque bind?


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17 replies to this topic

#1 djmark7

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 11:01 PM

i have a 91 legacy steering turns hard then easy both directions even when vehicle is not moving? you think its the steering rack or possibly the dreaded torque bind? thnx

#2 tunered

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 11:34 PM

torqe bind is wgen the rear end binds up,yours sounds like a bad rack. ed

#3 sregor13

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Posted 24 October 2005 - 11:42 PM

Torque bind doesn't always take place in the rear end. It sometimes refers to when the Center Differential binds. Nonetheless, it shouldnt play a role unless the car is moving. Could it be related to your Power steering pump? How does it feel when the car is off?

#4 nipper

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Posted 25 October 2005 - 04:50 AM

TOrque bind is only when the car is moving in tight turns. You have a power sterring or a rack problem. Odds are if the rack has no leaks, your power sterring pump is bad.


nipper

#5 col1n

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Posted 25 October 2005 - 07:11 AM

Hi.if the steering goes tight for 1/2 a turn each way it sounds to me like the universal joint on the steering column has worn.

#6 rideswithwind

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Posted 28 October 2005 - 10:15 AM

Hi i posted about the bearing issue,no responce,no problem bearings are set but this whole issue was a result of torque bind.I`ve changed the oils flushed out the rear put new drive shafts and seals set the bearings.I drove to work today seemed fine until i made a tight left turn and it seemed to bind slightly.what can de done about this,besides some more driving and changing tranny oil again,or major surgery?Help Jeff

#7 sregor13

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Posted 28 October 2005 - 01:25 PM

Your clutch pack might need replaced. The problems that cause classic "torque bind" may only appear in tight turns at first but as the problem persist the clutch pack gets damaged and you will feel the effects in very slight turns and eventually the binding will occur while driving perfectly straight. This may be neither here nor there for your problems. It may be some other issue, but the binding ocurs within the transmission as far as I understand.

#8 nipper

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Posted 28 October 2005 - 05:28 PM

Hi i posted about the bearing issue,no responce,no problem bearings are set but this whole issue was a result of torque bind.I`ve changed the oils flushed out the rear put new drive shafts and seals set the bearings.I drove to work today seemed fine until i made a tight left turn and it seemed to bind slightly.what can de done about this,besides some more driving and changing tranny oil again,or major surgery?Help Jeff


Did you driv in left circles 8 times then right 8 times after the fluid change? I had the same thing after a fluid change, did the circles, and it went away. Aparently it lossenes up whatever gunk isthe fluid flush didnt get since the car was not running when flushed

nipper

#9 rideswithwind

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 01:49 PM

Did you driv in left circles 8 times then right 8 times after the fluid change? I had the same thing after a fluid change, did the circles, and it went away. Aparently it lossenes up whatever gunk isthe fluid flush didnt get since the car was not running when flushed

nipper

Hi there i`v done the circles and even put in some slip additive
i got from subaru,it only does it when it is hot.i just spoke to a tech at a tranny repair shop,he said to change the oil in the transfer case,i didn1t know there is a seperate oil reservoir for the transfer case.

#10 nipper

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 02:11 PM

There isnt. It all runs off the same resevior. How long have you had this condition.


nipper

#11 rideswithwind

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 04:06 PM

There isnt. It all runs off the same resevior. How long have you had this condition.


nipper

Hello,i just bought the car in the beginning of oct.Apparently it had started some months ago,the car belonged to my x she was orig owner.
She had brought into firestone but obviously they couldn`t figure it out.Told her it was the clutch.

#12 nipper

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 04:35 PM

OK lets back up. This is a manual (thats what happens when the threads run with time gaps and my pain meds kick in).
There is nothing servicable in the sealed unit. Its a viscous coupling. There are discs with holes oin them that altenate from the input to the output of the transmission IiIiIiIi something like that. As the fluid is sheared by the discs rotating at differnt speeds, the fluid gets thick and transfers torque to the rear wheels. There is no computer no anything envolved. Its a simple and elegant little system and doesnt really go bad. Has anyone looked at the carrier bearings or center univeral joint? i am assuming tires are all the same age and size.


nipper

Please bear with me if i have repeated anyone

#13 rideswithwind

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 05:06 PM

I`m not sure,i think it started earlyier this year.I just got the car in the beginning of the month.Bought it from my x,she had taken it in a couple of times and they said nothing was wrong.I`v orderd shop manuals,but i`m wondering
if there is a way to test the duty solinoid.

#14 rideswithwind

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 06:02 PM

OK lets back up. This is a manual (thats what happens when the threads run with time gaps and my pain meds kick in).
There is nothing servicable in the sealed unit. Its a viscous coupling. There are discs with holes oin them that altenate from the input to the output of the transmission IiIiIiIi something like that. As the fluid is sheared by the discs rotating at differnt speeds, the fluid gets thick and transfers torque to the rear wheels. There is no computer no anything envolved. Its a simple and elegant little system and doesnt really go bad. Has anyone looked at the carrier bearings or center univeral joint? i am assuming tires are all the same age and size.


nipper

Please bear with me if i have repeated anyone

Sorry about the redundency,i did not realize that the 1999 had a viscous coupling.I have not checked either the center bearing or the universals,nor do i understand why either of these might be causing the symptoms i`m having, but ill check them Thanks jeff

#15 nipper

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Posted 31 October 2005 - 07:59 PM

Only thing i can think of is that they may be causing drag in the system .... or the binding that you think is the AWD is not the AWD but a bearing seizing up.

I will admit im fishing here...

nipper

#16 sregor13

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 02:33 AM

Okay I was a little confused. I see rideswithwind hoped onto this post. I dont know how torque bind works with Manual Transmissions but here is somewhat of a troubleshooting procedure for Automatic Transmissions. I have not seen where you say if it auto or manual.

If it is an Automatic and Torque Bind is the cause, then the shop may have told your ex that it was the clutch pack. I see where that could be relayed third person as the clutch.

However, it seems that the thread is leaning toward your car being a Manua. Not sure if I should give you the speel on Automatic Torque bind Troubleshooting. I dont know how much will translate into Manual Tranny pertinentcy. Nonetheless, some of it does so I will give it to you anyways and hopefully it will help.

First check your tires. The size, air pressure and relative tread appearances. On the size, dont go off what it says. Actually measure them. Correct any inconsistencies in the Tires. Be it Psi or otherwise. Consider if
there is a possibility that your Ex bought 2 new tires for it instead
of a new set. Or perhaps it may have driven on a spare for a couple of weeks. If so then this can cause Torque Bind. This is pure speculation but I speak from experience.

Second, under the hood in your A/C Fuse Box there should be your FWD Fuse Holder. Insert a 15 Amp Fuse. This should put you into FWD Mode. This in intended only for servicing your car or driving with the Donut Spare short distances at low speeds etc. It has been argued about what it may or may not damage on your car if you drive in this mode exclusively. Some say it will damage one of the Duty Solenoids, others say not. Either way, SOA notes the above limitations, so bear in mind.

It shouldnt hurt to try it out for a day or two. I have driven for longer in this mode, but it is not I recommended. Drive around a bit in FWD Mode. See if there are any problems or binding. If none then you have narrowed it down. Also, this is not fact or confirmed, but I have heard this will reset your TCM and thus reset your Duty Solenoid(s). If your Forester is an Automatic then know that there are three Duty Solenoids on the Transmission. (A B and C.)

If problems don't exist in FWD Mode then you may have binding. If an automatic then pull the Transmission Trouble Codes. They should give an Code for any Duty Solenoid issues. If a Manual then I dont even know if there is a TCM.

ON the other hand if you experience some problems when the Fuse is in then your problems likely exist elsewhere.

You say you have changed the Fluid/Oil. If it was a Manual then it would be API GL-5 SAE 75W-90 Gear Oil. Not sure how the additive plays in. If your Forester is an Automatic, then it would be API GL-5 80W-90 Gear Oil in the front and rear differentials, and ATF Dexron 2 or Dexron 3 in the transaxle.
(On a side note. You say you drove around in Circles after changing the Fluid. I have heard from several sources doing several figure 8's in reverse is what the doctor ordered after Fluid Gear Oil Changes. This might not be applicable in a Manual Transmission.)

Now that the Tires and Fluid have been addressed and you know about any Solenoid codes then you you should be pretty close to a conclusion.

Let me add that there are two different types of "Torque Bind" on an AWD Subaru. One is thought to be a problem within the transmission, ( aka the Center Differential) this would be something you would feel in a Turn or coming into a turn while slowing down from high speed. You may feel a shudder or hear your tires bark while turning. The other is general "torque bind" in the rear end. Something gone awry in the rear differential.

The later (rear diff binding ) was a persistent problem caused by the inner casing of the rear diff. The solution was to to replace the seal(s) on the rear diff and put a steel casing in the interior. The problem was caused by the Aluminum Case getting shaved down over time by moving parts. The aluminum shavings limited the rear diff's ability to distribute the Gear Oil. Eventually leading to rear end binding. I think was only on AWD Sub's from 90-96. They started to reinforce the Rear Diff at the Factory in 97.

This leads me to think, that if you have "torque bind", then it is the former of two types of binding I described above. You could suffer from classic torque bind. I have my doubts, if you have a Manual Transmission. If an Automatic then you will also want to check your codes for ATF Temp Sensor along with the Duty Solenoids.

You may have to remove the Extension Case and inspect the area inside the case where the seal rides. It is possible that you will have to replace the Transfer clutch plates and seals. I guess this would be called an overhaul of the Tranfer Clutch. Not sure exactly.

So if you get to any of this or if you want to know the location of the Duty Solenoids then let me know. Hope this info is helpful and I realize it is long winded. Just reliving a nightmare in this post. Good Luck.

#17 rideswithwind

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 09:03 AM

There does not seem to be any slop in the universals and the hanger bearing is nice and stiff.I think i mentioned that this binding only occurs when the car has been driven for a half hour or so.

#18 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 12:33 PM

Might be worth triple-checking the tires. They should be the same brand/style/wear/CIRCUMFERENCE and not exhibit any tread seperation etc.

I dunno




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