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92 Legacy Touring Wagon: Automatic NO 3RD OR 4TH


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34 replies to this topic

#1 NuclearBacon

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 03:20 PM

Hello to all in the New Gen section! i'm always in the Older section for my GL-10 Sedan, but now i have the opportunity to acquire a 1992 Legacy Touring Wagon, and i need your help!!

It has the 4EAT automatic transmission, and is SUPER strong in First, shifts into Second perfectly, then when it gets to third, it goes into third gear, but then slips into a neutral position, and will not go anywhere from there. i can then shift down and drop it into first or second and regain 1st and 2nd to drive away. Of course 4th will not follow, but i can feel it go into 3rd, but it doesn't hold. I checked the fluid on the car and it looked a bit low, and smelled a little burnt. It also looked more brownish then the red im used to seeing. This transmission also has a "MANUAL" button on the shifter that lights a light next to the "power" light (i assume the "power" light is the turbo creating pressure). Not sure what the purpose for either is.

My Question is: should i pick it up?! i'm basically going to be given this wagon. So any money into the transmission will be the only money that will need to be put into it. i had 4 people in the car with me when i went to test the tranny, and the wagon pulled me and 4 of my friends all the way to 40 with reckless abandon.

The car has the 2.2L *i believe, still learning* with a turbo, hood scoop, ect... super clean, and started right up with 180,000 miles. I have the room to fix it, and the tools...

If i change the fluid, and filter, and have fluid to the CORRECT level, will it solve my problems? Is there a module/soloniod/band that controls the 3rd-4th gearing clutches that can be replaced? Can i drop the pan and fix whatever i need to fix? (I can rebuild engines, and do electrical no problem... an automatic transmission is the only thing on a car that is magic to me)

Is there a type of Transmission Control Unit (TCU) Computer or something that might be faulty? if it was would it be connected to the engine computer, and flash a trouble code? (check engine light?)

I've read about how everyone installs transmission coolers on this model (4EAT) because heat is its #1 enemy. Is this transmission toast? If it is, what am i looking to spend for a replacement (throwing the purchased tranny in the back of my truck, and taking it home) I can replace a transmission in a car... i just dont want to do it if i dont have to, ya dig? :) Any help in this would be GREATLY appricated. Im going to be picking up the wagon on friday of this week (11/11/05) unless i hear different from the USMB, so any info before then would be AWESOME. thank you!!!

Luigi

#2 tunered

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 04:43 PM

as i understand it there is 2 selonoids in there 2-3 3-4 sounds like the band is good but maybe the selonoid is not allowing it to shift,supposed to be able to change with pan off. if this isnt right somebody will tell us. ed

#3 NuclearBacon

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 08:25 PM

as i understand it there is 2 selonoids in there 2-3 3-4 sounds like the band is good but maybe the selonoid is not allowing it to shift,supposed to be able to change with pan off. if this isnt right somebody will tell us. ed


well that sounds promising. anyone else care to back it up :) (thanks ed!!)

#4 nipper

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 09:21 PM

Actually going into 3rd and not holding sounds like the tranny is on the way out. Check the tranny fluid, if its burnt, the trany is fried. Eventually you will have just 2nd and reverse.


nipper

#5 All_talk

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 09:50 PM

You're not gonna wanna hear this but more than likely the 3ed/4th clutch pack is burnt out... Is the fluid dark or smell burnt at all? This is a common falure mode for the turbo Legacys, I bought a '92 Sport Sedan (SS) with the same issue.

If it is the clutch/s you've got two choices, rebuild the trans, be ready to spend about $2500 for this.

Or put in a used trans, you should be able to find a newer lower mile unit for around $400-500, I believe just about any year will work as long as its the complete trans with the matching torque converter (I put a '95 in mine) But the turbo Legacys have a different final drive ratio (3.90:1), so you will need to sawp a rear diff that matches (most likely 4.11:1). You will also have the labor to install it, yours or pay the man. Another note, the turbo EJ 4EATs are built stronger that the N/As, more clutch disks and such, so if driven hard the N/A trans may have shortened life.

Option three, 5MT swap, its a bit of work but has been done by many.


For more info check out:

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/index.php

Center of the Turbo Legacy universe


Gary

#6 tunered

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 09:58 PM

3rd and 4th clutch pack? what the hell is that?

#7 jeffast

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 11:05 PM

take it ej22t's are very rare if it is a turbo that engine is worth somthing like a grand on ebay or so i've heard any way

#8 nipper

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 11:18 PM

3rd and 4th clutch pack? what the hell is that?


Transmission 101

http://auto.howstuff...ransmission.htm

nipper

#9 richierich

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 02:23 AM

I vote for 5 speed conversion!!!!!!

#10 Gnuman

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 11:54 AM

Hello to all in the New Gen section! i'm always in the Older section for my GL-10 Sedan, but now i have the opportunity to acquire a 1992 Legacy Touring Wagon, and i need your help!!

It has the 4EAT automatic transmission, and is SUPER strong in First, shifts into Second perfectly, then when it gets to third, it goes into third gear, but then slips into a neutral position, and will not go anywhere from there. i can then shift down and drop it into first or second and regain 1st and 2nd to drive away. Of course 4th will not follow, but i can feel it go into 3rd, but it doesn't hold. I checked the fluid on the car and it looked a bit low, and smelled a little burnt. It also looked more brownish then the red im used to seeing. This transmission also has a "MANUAL" button on the shifter that lights a light next to the "power" light (i assume the "power" light is the turbo creating pressure). Not sure what the purpose for either is.

My Question is: should i pick it up?! i'm basically going to be given this wagon. So any money into the transmission will be the only money that will need to be put into it. i had 4 people in the car with me when i went to test the tranny, and the wagon pulled me and 4 of my friends all the way to 40 with reckless abandon.

The car has the 2.2L *i believe, still learning* with a turbo, hood scoop, ect... super clean, and started right up with 180,000 miles. I have the room to fix it, and the tools...

If i change the fluid, and filter, and have fluid to the CORRECT level, will it solve my problems? Is there a module/soloniod/band that controls the 3rd-4th gearing clutches that can be replaced? Can i drop the pan and fix whatever i need to fix? (I can rebuild engines, and do electrical no problem... an automatic transmission is the only thing on a car that is magic to me)

Is there a type of Transmission Control Unit (TCU) Computer or something that might be faulty? if it was would it be connected to the engine computer, and flash a trouble code? (check engine light?)

I've read about how everyone installs transmission coolers on this model (4EAT) because heat is its #1 enemy. Is this transmission toast? If it is, what am i looking to spend for a replacement (throwing the purchased tranny in the back of my truck, and taking it home) I can replace a transmission in a car... i just dont want to do it if i dont have to, ya dig? :) Any help in this would be GREATLY appricated. Im going to be picking up the wagon on friday of this week (11/11/05) unless i hear different from the USMB, so any info before then would be AWESOME. thank you!!!

Luigi


Get the car. if you have to get a rebuilt tranny you are still ahead. Getting a rebuilt will be easier than rebuilding this one, which may be needed. I vote for getting a rebuilt tranny and *maybe* rebuilding this one as a spare. The other option, which will give you a bit quicker car, is to go with the 5MT swap. If you are famillar with the 5MT, then this may be the way to go as the 5MT is much more robust than the 4EAT. When the trans fluid gets cooked (as yours is), it gumms up the internals big time. Changing the fluid often solves the problems that happen, but it sounds like things are a mess inside that tranny, and a full rebuild is in order if you plan on keeping it. The rest of the car sounds to be in fine shape, and will likely give you at least annother 100K miles of good service. Congrats on getting such a fine car.

#11 Gnuman

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Posted 08 November 2005 - 12:06 PM

3rd and 4th clutch pack? what the hell is that?


Tunered, the solenoids control the operation of clutchpacks in order to gain control over the trannys shifting. the 3-4 solenoid that you mentioned controls a clutchpack that drives that part of the tranny. All_talk is saying that he believes that the clutch disks inside the clutchpack controled by the 3-4 solenoid are worn and slipping. That may be, or the solenoid (or perhaps one of the fluid lines) is gummed up and not allowing the fluid to flow freely. Either scenario calls for a rebuild. That tranny is likely gone at this point, until it gets rebuilt.

#12 NuclearBacon

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 06:49 PM

sounds like i'm going to be buying a 4EAT used and putting it in myself. :) thanks to all! incredibly helpful! i would love to do the swap... but it sounds like a HUGE amount of work. and i dont have a donar vehicle to take the parts from.

thanks to all!
Luigi

#13 tunered

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 07:15 PM

Tunered, the solenoids control the operation of clutchpacks in order to gain control over the trannys shifting. the 3-4 solenoid that you mentioned controls a clutchpack that drives that part of the tranny. All_talk is saying that he believes that the clutch disks inside the clutchpack controled by the 3-4 solenoid are worn and slipping. That may be, or the solenoid (or perhaps one of the fluid lines) is gummed up and not allowing the fluid to flow freely. Either scenario calls for a rebuild. That tranny is likely gone at this point, until it gets rebuilt.

gnoman,thanks.i relly thought that the clutchs would wear at the same rate,maybe slip but not give out alltogether as a single gear.

#14 tunered

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 07:20 PM

theres another post right now with about the same thing but he has 2nd and reverse,whats the chance these are clutchs too?im no trans guy but clutchs dont sound right,probally wrong but ?

#15 NuclearBacon

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 07:39 PM

theres another post right now with about the same thing but he has 2nd and reverse,whats the chance these are clutchs too?im no trans guy but clutchs dont sound right,probally wrong but ?


i was also curious about that.... anybody??

#16 nipper

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 09:07 PM

2nd and reverse are all that your left with when this transmission burns up its clutches. 2nd and reverse work off the same clutch packs, but also see the least amount of work as far as torque load goes.


nipper

#17 NuclearBacon

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 04:42 PM

the wagon is mine!! i'm sure you'll all hear about it ;)

wish me luck!! *and hope i find me some part numebrs!!*

#18 Gnuman

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 05:10 PM

the wagon is mine!! i'm sure you'll all hear about it ;)

wish me luck!! *and hope i find me some part numebrs!!*


Conga-Rats on the score! I'm in your area and have a 92 wagon that i use for Touring myself. I'd love to see what yours looks like, etc. Perhaps I could even help with the tranny problem. (putting a tranny in really is a two man job, unless you have a lot of tools. Send me a PM or an email (click on my name to gain access)

#19 NuclearBacon

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 06:28 PM

Thats awesome man! thanks for the heads up. i think i'll have all the hands i need, but its good to know theres someone close! if you have a wagon, could you go out and read me off the part number for your tranny? it should be like a:

TZ###ZZ#ZZ 10 digits, and i think they all start with TZ. i'd like to have a bank of these #'s so when i go to the tranny shop, i can go *AH! this is from a 93 legacy and it has a 3.700 rear, from a NA car, i'll take it!"

knowledge is power my brotha! haha thanks!!!

Luigi

#20 NuclearBacon

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 03:03 AM

for all your 90-96 legacy automatic transmission model number questions:

http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=46398

#21 NuclearBacon

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 07:13 PM

so um... just to let everyone know... hehehe...

my touring wagon is in a MILLION pieces .... waiting for its...

- Exedy Lightweight Flywheel
- Exedy Stage 1 Clutch
- STi JDM Spec Short Throw Shift Kit
- STi JDM Carbon Fiber Strut Tower Brace
- STi MT Pedals
- NEX Lowering Coilovers
- Greddy Catback Exhaust

all sitting in the garage... with the 4EAT sitting in the cargo compartment of the donar 91 legacy i have.

everything is out... .....now everything must go in .

*gasp!* *crosses fingers*

Josh if you're reading this.... you havent escaped my questions yet!!!!!

and for anyone who doesnt know who josh is (Legacy777) ... I owe him MANY beers :drunk:

and yes, i'll be at WCSS ;)

#22 Kilroy

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 03:57 AM

Looking forward to seeing how this goes as this weekend I am pulling a 4EAT from the wrecking yard and (possibly) installing it in my '90 Lecacy Wagon. I have to replace the flexplate, perhaps I'll look for a lightweight one as well. :)

#23 NuclearBacon

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 04:38 AM

...I am pulling a 4EAT from the wrecking yard...


A WORD OF CAUTION!!!!

i dont know how much you've read on 4EAT's but.....

....................To put it...gently....

....THEY SUCK!

Chances are if that car is in the junkyard, (and it hasnt been hit or something), its there because the
TRANSMISSION WENT OUT!!!

BE WARNED!!!!!!!! :) other then that HAPPY JUYARDING! (junkyarding but cooler, trying to set a trend)

#24 nipper

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 09:13 AM

A WORD OF CAUTION!!!!

i dont know how much you've read on 4EAT's but.....

....................To put it...gently....

....THEY SUCK!

Chances are if that car is in the junkyard, (and it hasnt been hit or something), its there because the
TRANSMISSION WENT OUT!!!

BE WARNED!!!!!!!! :) other then that HAPPY JUYARDING! (junkyarding but cooler, trying to set a trend)


well pre 95 sucks anway,
And hes right. If it doesnt have a really HUGE dent, odds are its electrical or the transmission (manual or auto) and the rest of the car looks decent



nipper

#25 Eljefe

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Posted 28 June 2006 - 01:53 PM

I have almost the same problem with my 90 Wagon, only it's 2nd and 4th gear. I'm real leery of getting a tranny from a junkyard just for the reason you mentioned.




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