New Sorento may dip into Forester sales

[Guest lothar34]

It looks like Kia is going to offer a 5-spd on the 2004 Sorento. That and a DR transfer case on the 4wd model might sway a lot of buyers (I know it's not AWD).

 

It looks to me like the only places the Kia is lacking vs. the Forester X is in gas mileage and weight.

 

Anybody else looked at these?

[applegump]

What about crash safety?

[Guest lothar34]

I don't think IIHS has tested the Sorento yet. The NHTSA gives 4 stars for the front, 5 stars for the side and 3 for rollover (for the 2003 4wd)

http://www.nhtsa.org/NCAP/Cars/2003SUVs.html

 

So the Forester beats it there by 1 star in the frontal test, but it's the same on the other two.

 

I forgot to mention that the base price for the Sorento 4wd with the manual is a little under $22,000. About $1000 more than the MSRP for the 2.5X.

 

Disc brakes are standard on the Kia, but ABS is not. LSD is standard for the 4wd. And that huge warranty.

 

There are still differences though, since the Kia is body-on-frame and the Forester is unibody.

 

I'm not saying right out that one is better than the other, but it sure made me take a closer look when I read that they were making a 5-speed available.

[ringe]

I just hate the Korean brands, so Subaru has my vote.

[Sweet82]

Maybe this will kick Subaru in the ___! and get them to offer the D/R tranny in the US again? They offer it elsewhere.

 

This would be the easyest solution the the match up!

 

Glenn,

82 Hatch, has gears

01 Forester, has none:banghead:

[ringe]

Sorry, but what is a D/R tranny?

[Guest lothar34]

Originally posted by ringe

Sorry, but what is a D/R tranny?

 

Dual range. 4W High and 4W Low gears (and 2W high).

 

Most 4wd trucks have them, and Some Subarus in other countries have them.

[reoff]

The Kia Sorento is in a totally different class than a Forester. There have been MANY small SUV's that have always offered D/R in the forester price range. But then... a Subaru is NOT an SUV!!! There are NO similarities between them. When we bought the '03 Forester X there was no talk of comparing it to anything but a Ford Escape... and reliablity/price were all I needed to get my g/f to give up on that. Dual Range would be nice, but then with 165HP and very low gearing... why is it such a concern? It would only be the same 1.2:1 ratio anyway. Not the 1.8:1 we all love from our older MUCH less powerful GL series cars. There would be no real off-road advantage to that transmission here. If it came with it, fine. But don't ask me to pay extra for it until you offer some serious gear reduction (at least 1.6:1). Besides, a modern Forester would have to be lifted before you would ever need to worry about gear reduction.

 

And that's my take on it. Subaru will never be in direct competition with an SUV (especially a korean one).

 

Rich

[SubaruImpreza_Power]

I would take a Subaru ANYDAY over a Kia (Killed in Action)

 

OMG thats like a No brainer..:brolleye:

[Crashton]

I feel that KIA has that huge warranty because few would buy one without it. I have a sneaking feeling that there won't be very many high mileage Sorento's around. The Forester is a much better car IMHO.

[99obw]

A friend of mine has two newer hyundais. He swears by them. I tell him he is better off spending the same money on used japanese cars, but he won't listen. He does nothing but talk about the warranty. Good thing the warranty is so good because the things are in the shop all the time. I recharged the A/C on the older one. What a POS. I have never seen such a cheaply made car. Even my 86 escort was more robustly constructed. If someone gave me a korean car I would sell it.

[reoff]

I'm no fan of Korean cars... but lets be reasonable. They really do have their place. Here's a basic equation for "y'all" -

 

Cheap/trashy people + brand new car + lousy maintenance (can only afford gas for god's sake... and even then only am/pm) + loud mouth = ??? what you ask? Trashy people that trash perfectly good cars and then b!@#h about what a POS it was.

 

I've owned a Kia (Ford Festiva), and if you could overlook the poor trim, small size, total lack of power and poor fuel economy for what you get... it WAS a reliable car. Not to say I'd buy another korean car, but they could be good cars if you took care of them.

 

But I still say they will NEVER be in competition with Subaru.

[1 Lucky Texan]

Before we bought our '03 OBW we considerd 8-10 other cars, most of which we drove.

 

The Sorento isn't remotely similar to any Subaru. Additionally, it lumbers and pitches down the pavement like a Lincoln on stilts. I can't imagine it being very stable on or off road without some kinda' mods. And after that you still have a KIA.

 

Go drive one just for h*ll of it and report back.

 

Worst car we drove.

 

Carl

1 Lucky Texan

[DerFahrer]

Koreans aren't that bad anymore. The most recent JD Power reliability report I read had Toyota 1st, Hyundai 2ND!!, Honda 3rd and Subaru 4th...

 

Still, any Korean car out there today is about as exciting as a Camry in my opinion. Subaru has much more personality

[applegump]

I have yet to see a Korean car that looks cool or very appealing. They are getting better....

If I got one i'd trade it with any Subaru.

[ringe]

Originally posted by ringe

Sorry, but what is a D/R tranny?

 

OK, thanks. I had a feeling it meant something like that but I wasn't sure. I still can't believe they haven't got it here. Give the Forester a little more clearance and some stiffer springs with that D/R tranny, and it would almost be a true SUV.

[Martinjmpr]

Apples and oranges, IMO.

 

As for the quality of Korean autos, they are trying to undercut the Japanese so they only sell the cheap ones in the USA. Korea is where Japan was in about the early '70's, but Korea has the benefit of watching Japan's example.

 

I think the future will see an explosion in both the quality and quantity of Korean products. In business terms, the ROKs are "Hungry", and their economy is booming, one of the best in Asia.

 

They also make a lot of cool SUVs that they don't sell in the US.

[reoff]

Originally posted by ringe

OK, thanks. I had a feeling it meant something like that but I wasn't sure. I still can't believe they haven't got it here. Give the Forester a little more clearance and some stiffer springs with that D/R tranny, and it would almost be a true SUV.

 

mmmkay... Is there a reason you think it would be a good idea to make the Forester more "SUV" like? Keep in mind that an SUV is typically a heavy, cumbersome vehicle that gets poor mileage and really doesn't do all that well off-road. I have a '96 Explorer that I really like for it's purpose, but that is NOT offroad use. Too heavy and not all that good at it.

 

As for a more SUV like Forester... they would have to do much better than the exisitng D/R available in other countries. My explorer has a ~2.4:1 reduction in 4lo... the 1.8:1 in my GL works just fine... but 1.2:1 is nearly worthless offroad. There are plenty of ways to "upgrade" a forester to a much better than SUV vehicle, but little of it is available to the US market. We NEED a good importer to bring us this stuff at a reasonable cost from Aussie!!! (maybe I'll just do it someday) OR!!! We need people that are willing to design/build this stuff here. Is this still the USA or what???

 

Rich

[Sweet82]

The Subies are more properly classed as "Crossover Vehicles" not SUV's. Although didn't Subaru advertise the Forester as the First and Only SUV Wagon?

 

A crossover vehicle is fine for 98% of the people out there. Good call on Subaru's part.

 

However, I'm looking for something more (2%). A D/R tranny would serve me well. I'd be willing to pay more for the utility I would get out of it. I think you would find D/R Subies would sell at a premium price among Subarus.

 

If they existed you could add larger tires, stiffer springs and do lifts (although I think driving skill is more importent) or what ever you want and it would work.

 

I have taken my Forester climbing and found it just doesn't cut it. No matter how they advertise it (Outback? Forester?) it's not the Subaru that made Subaru popular.

 

Outback..yard? Urban Forester?

 

I'm preaching to the choir........

 

OFFER THE D/R TRANNY IN THE US!:boohoo: :boohoo: :boohoo:

 

I'm preaching to the choir........

 

I'll shut up now.

 

Glenn,

82 Hatch, with gears!

01 Forester, without gears!

[pianodirt]

Maybe elsewhere in the country, but here in the northwest, I've heard several complete horror stories about kia's. Most of the stories were from women who got mistreated by the dealers, being treated like they were dumb and thinking they could get awa with it. There doesn't seem to be the same kind of love for kia's as for soobs on either end of the sale, again, at least around here.

[ringe]

The reason the Forester would rock as an SUV is because it is light, it has carlike handling, and with a little more ground clearance and D/R it could be fairly decent with true offroad work.

[Guest lothar34]

I wasn't suggesting that we all go trade in our Soobs for the Kia. I know we all love the Soobs (except for the stupid windows), otherwise we wouldn't be here.

 

I don't really consider the Forester an SUV, and I wasn't shopping for an SUV when I bought mine. Subaru does, or did, market it as an SUV though.

 

And in that price range the Kia is now available with a manual. That's the real reason I brought it up. I know there are few of us left, but some people can't live with an auto.

 

There are people out there too who aren't Subaru loyalists. If they're shopping for something SUV-like in that category they may be swayed by the power advantage and the DR transfer case in the Kia. I personally don't know if others cross-shop these two or not. If I was buying new though (in that price range), I'd at least look at the Kia.

 

I personally plan on getting a Legacy turbo next year or the year after. Despite the windows.

[reoff]

Originally posted by ringe

The reason the Forester would rock as an SUV is because it is light, it has carlike handling, and with a little more ground clearance and D/R it could be fairly decent with true offroad work.

 

Wasn't really a question. I think I'm treading on some shakey ground here, but I am very passonate about this subject. I realize many may disagree with me.

 

I know that Subaru is trying to sell the forester as a "crossover suv" or "hybrid suv," but it simply is not one. It is built on a car platform with a car drivetrain. That may be getting more and more common these days, but are those really even SUV's? Are they not really just unattractive minivans with AWD? At least Subaru can have the dignity when all this insanity is over of saying: "all we ever built was a station wagon."

 

Everyone needs to keep in mind that I do have a very real appreciation of the newer Subaru's... My g/f and I own an '03 Forester X 5spd. But I have an even deeper appreciation for my old GL wagons past and present. The thing that really draws me to these cars is the fact that I can go anywhere a "modern suv" can go(and more), get twice the fuel economy. I can do all this and still say that I have a car... not an expensive minivan. The Forester is not half bad offroad, although clearance is very limited. And what were they thinking when they put that plastic pan on the bottom of the engine? I saw lots of those at the Volvo shop... usually because people ripped them off on rocks/curbs and had to get a new one. But overall, the gearing is great for most things. It has double the horsepower of my old '85 GL. The extra HP pretty much makes up for the lack of a low range. Even in my '86 turbowagon (single range), I took that car places nobody should try to go in ANY car. The lack of standard off-road worthy equipment is just a way of saying that we need to get more creative with a car that could be very capable in exterme situations. That being said... let's talk about target market for a moment. Suabru knows that most of their business is in the 40 year old soccer mom area. I don't believe that a D/R in a new Subaru would help their sales here. Since the Legacy came out there just hasn't been the younger following. Simple fact, young people rarely buy a new car! We can only hope that Subaru will someday wake up and offer a non-rice option for the rest of us younger people. And YES, I am making referance to the WRX/2.5RS.

 

As for SUV's... even the real ones are not very good offroad. I've been there many times. Everywhere from my grandpa's old '84 Grand Wagoneer to my current '96 Explorer. That thing is great on the road and in the snow, but is just too heavy for offroad. On the other hand, my F-150/250's have been impressive offroad... why do you suppose that is? Anyway, just my thoughts.

 

(boy did I just go on and on with that one...)

 

Rich

[ringe]

Well, I agree the Forester is in essence a car, not an SUV, but the only factors truly standing in the way are structure, durability, ground clearance, and transfer case/lack thereof. With these elements, and by keeping the Subaru character otherwise, it could be the first TRUE crossover SUV with any semblance of offroad credibility.

[foresterturbomiatacamry]

MMMMM I dont think so. I just bought my 2004 Forester Turbo 5 speed. The Sorento ain't got nothin on the Forester Turbo.

 

:D :D :D