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4EAT MODEL Numbers!!! Go Outside and HELP ME OUT! :)


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24 replies to this topic

#1 NuclearBacon

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 06:57 PM

Hello Everybody! :)

They should start a 4EAT section. lol , my question is about a 92 Legacy Touring Wagon (AWD)with a shot transmission *as i have deduced*

http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=46231

This model of the EJ22 is the turbo model *i assume its like the EA82's , just throw a T at the end* so an EJ22T, with the 4EAT tranny.

How can i go to a transmission shop and know the 4EAT tranny is from a turbo car? Is there a serial number? are there markings? is there ANYTHING that would lead me to believe that the 4EAT was from a turbo car??

moving deeper, *literally*, what are the mechanical differences between the two 4EAT's?? is there any difference? i assume that you would need more clutch packs or something. ( a difference of 30 HP from the NA to turbo models would ask for a stronger tranny right? )

i will probably be driving from san francisco to LA, picking up a transmission, and driving back to SF, and i'd like to know EXACTLY what i was getting so i dont put it in, and have it burnt out quickly again *heavy foot* so if i can get the stronger model of the 4EAT, ...i want it! :) I'd like to be able to walk down the isle of the tranny shop, see 2 different 4EAT's on the shelf, and know one was from a turbo car, and the other was not.

Thanks for the info, i'd be lost without everyones help!!

thanks again!
Luigi

p.s.. just a side note, anyone know the rear end ratio for this wagon? :) i know i could look it up, and probably will, but if you know it, just throw it out there ;) *high five* thanks!

#2 tunered

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 07:09 PM

dont know if there is any difference,but think about this,a used turbo trans may not be in as good of condition as a non turbo.

#3 NuclearBacon

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 07:42 PM

dont know if there is any difference,but think about this,a used turbo trans may not be in as good of condition as a non turbo.


well, if there is no such thing as a turbo 4EAT and a non turbo 4EAT, then i agree, but ... i'd like to know that first :)

i do agree though, if the two co-exist, and there is only 1 4EAT, then so be it.

thanks ed!

#4 beezer

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 08:34 PM

There is a difference, the 1st and 2nd gear ratios are different (slightly lower on the turbo model)

Don't know if this is an issue on whether they are compatible or not though.
My vote is on yes they are interchangeable.............maybe.

Probably have to wait for Legacy777 to chirp in.

Forgot to add the final gear reduction for the turbo is 3.900

#5 All_talk

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 08:53 PM

[font="][font=Verdana]Yes, there are differences, I'm not sure what all of them are, I know the turbo 4EAT is the same as the SVX trans and they have more disks in some of the clutch packs than the N/As.

But most important is that all '90-'94 Legacy turbo sedans and wagons have a 3.90:1 final drive ratio and the N/A cars are 4.11:1. You can use a 4.11 trans but you will need to swap in a matching rear diff.

Its common for turbo Legacy 4EAT to go out in the 120,000 to 150,000 mile range so finding a good used one could be tough unless its been recently rebuilt (the SVX guys snatch up good 3.90 4EATs as theirs go out even sooner than the T-Legs).

I think the best option might be to find a later model/low mile 4EAT and swap the rear diff too. The 4:11 gears will give you a little better acceleration and a little worse gas mileage.

Now there is one other option... I only mention this because its possible and I myself have done it, but I don’t really recommend it. The front diff section of the 4EAT is swappable so you can put your existing 3.90 diff onto a newer 4.11 trans. This involves some major disassembly and changing out the pinion shaft as well. The biggest issue is setting up the proper gear mesh between the ring and pinion, this is no minor thing and if its just a bit off the gears will chew themselves to shreds in short order. My experience is detailed here: http://bbs.legacycen...front diff swap

I hope this info helps
Gary
[/font] [/font]


#6 Legacy777

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 10:22 PM

The main differences that make the turbo legacy 4eat better is that is has one more clutch plate on the forward & high clutch assembly.

Is it really worth the money, and or hassle to try and find a turbo legacy 4EAT? I don't know...probably not, unless you're making gobs of power, even then, the stock turbo leg tranny wouldn't hold up too long. Only big catch as mentioned is the different drive ratios. However the 92-94 normally aspirated 4EAT's had a 3.90 final drive ratio, so if you found one of those, it'd be a direct swap.

Here's a post from Larry Witherspoon from the yahoo bc-bf legacyworks group about the tranny differences

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sent this to a "generic" Subaru forum last nite as an addendum to an auto trans discussion

For Turbo Legacy and SVX owners...ESPECIALLY

Turbo Legacy Auto Trans Part Number TZ102ZJ2AA
SVX Auto Trans Part Number TZ102ZM1AA


The MY 91 - 94 Turbo Legacy auto trans is unlike most other Sube auto trannys but is also found in the MY 92 - 97 SVX

Some would look to a WRX for a replacement trans and that's fine, but if you can find one in good shape from a Turbo Legacy or SVX you will have the added advantage of a trans built for a heavier car

Be careful trying to use an SVX trans in a turbo Legacy. The SVX had two different gear ratios...3.9 and 3.545. The torque converter for the 3.545 won’t fit the Legacy Turbo 3.90 flexplate.

As far as the torque converter differences, my info has it that the SVX and Turbo Legacy converters are not interchangeable. They have different overall diameters and different mounting bolt circles.

The Subaru Factory '91 Model Year Update Course gives the following tranny info comparing the Legacy Turbo auto tranny to the auto trans for it's normally aspirated sister;


Of great importance in my opinion is the last sentence, which provides information about a condition I believe unique to the Turbo Legacy, and why it is so important to try and stay with a Turbo Legacy trans and electronic control units if you have one of these rare cars;

"The TCU and ECU do NOT interface on the Turbo Legacy" (unlike all other Subarus)

=====================================
In order to handle the increased torque produced by the turbocharged engine, the 4EAT Transmission uses a larger Torque Converter. For additional strength, the input shaft has also been shotpeened. In both the Forward Clutch assembly and the High Clutch assembly, the number of drive and driven plates has been increased by one (1), while the retaining plate thickness has been reduced. The Low/Reverse Brake assembly has increased the number of plates by two (2), but the thickness has been reduced. The outer diameter of the Servo piston (band application) assembly has been increased in order to provide more band clamping force. Of course, the servo piston seals have also been enlarged to match the servo piston diameter. Due to the new piston shape the number of "O" ring seals has been reduced by one (1) Lubrication passages have been added to the Planetary Carrier assembly for increased gear durability. Finally the logic in the Transmission Control Unit (TCU) has been changed to match the mechanical changes to the 4EAT. And a new Select Monitor Cartridge (P/N 498348400) has been introduced which supersedes P/N 498347500 and P/N 498347501. This cartridge will also operate on the 90MY Legacy. The TCU and ECU do NOT interface on the Turbo Legacy

======================================



For rebuilt Sube transes my first choice for a stock rebuild would be Colorado Component Rebuilders http://www.ccrengines.com/ though I have found local auto trans specialty shops that could do the job. You just have to ask questions you already know the answers to so that you weed out the wannabees.



I now have a "bulletproof" trans from Level 10 Performance Transmissions http://www.levelten.com/ which I went to because the SVX forums speak well of them, and since the SVX only came with an auto trans, those guys know where to go



JMO of America http://www.jmousa.com/ did my torque converter, and are one of the few torque converter performance specialty shops around. An insight to their torque converter performance upgrade can be seen here http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0211ht_converter

The downside to the extra performance and durability in my case is an uncomfortably hard upshift at low speeds from first to second and second to third...I hear the tires chirp on dry pavement all the time






A place called TransGo http://www.txchange.com/transgo.htm has a kit for the Legacy 4EAT auto trans which is less expensive than the Level 10 reworked valve body, but I understand there's machining to be done on the valve body plus the replacement parts so once you locate a good tranny man maybe it would be a wash as to which is less expensive. However a still less expensive alternative is their "Shift Improver" kit (part # SKRE4R01A). This $50 kit has 4 plastic rings for the transmission that are designed to handle greater temperatures than stock Subaru parts

ABSITIVELY POSOLUTELY install an external cooler, it's so important for increased longevity the JMO torque converter upgrade includes one in the price!

Now if I can just get my engine done maybe I'll be able to enjoy all the money dropped into the trans!


Larry autotransking Witherspoon



#7 NuclearBacon

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 02:15 AM

wow, that was a hell of a response!!! thank you!!! now my question is if the 92-94 tranny has a 3.900 ratio, does that mean a 90-91 tranny has a 4.11? what about the 95-96? is that a 4.11 as well? and if so...... check this out on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/...sspagenameZWDVW

it says 90-96. *confused* does this mean its a gamble as to which it could be? is there this part number *below* that is located on a certian spot, that i could call ahead and ask the clerk to read to me?

the part number that Legacy777 gave out

"Turbo Legacy Auto Trans Part Number TZ102ZJ2AA "

is that the tranny i need?

thank you everyone for the input!!! i appriciate everyone's paitence!!!! be sure to check the marketplace for my pickapart runs!!! hopefully i can pay you guys *and gals* back in parts!!! ;)

Luigi

#8 Legacy777

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 09:50 AM

The 90-91's were 4.111. I'm not sure about the 95+, but I would assume they're also 4.111.

There are two different codes on the transmission. That TY..... number, and a six digit numerical number. They should be on the driver's side, where the starter bolts in. I believe the TY number is on a white label. You can see the top of the white label in one of those pics.

#9 NuclearBacon

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Posted 12 November 2005 - 03:57 PM

Alrighty!!! Im narrowing it down (with everyones help!) i finally got the wagon!!! its a 1992 Touring Wagon LE.

The transmission model is infact TZ102ZJ2AA .

The SERIAL number next to it is 386030.

SO! i assume there is a range for these serial numbers, as well as a DIFFERENT TZ number for the NA model of the 2.2 Liter.

IF ANYONE OUT THERE HAS A 1990 - 1996 LEGACY WITH AN AUTO TRANNY, 2.2 LITRE, COULD YOU PLEASE GO OUTSIDE AND READ ME OFF YOUR TRANSMISSION MODEL NUMBER? :)

They are located on the driver side right on the printed metal plate as you stand at the driver side fender, almost on the strut. or you can look close to the flywheel and the sticker should be on the driver side again, very close to the starter motor.

It'd be cool to use this post as a list for 4EAT tranny's. Get the Part #'s together, and really decipher which are which, and what part #'s go with which drivetrains.

When i went to the used tranny shop, they walked me into the back and said: "here are the 6 we got, which one you want?!" and numbers were all over the place, as were serial numbers. i walked out shrugging. I'm SURE theres differences in the ranges of serial numbers. that would be great to know. anyone?

thanks again!!! i couldnt do it without this site! ROCK ON!

#10 NuclearBacon

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 06:29 PM

*bump*

#11 tunered

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Posted 13 November 2005 - 09:25 PM

my 91 leg wagon non turbo 2.2 man date 7-91 trans no. tz102za1aa this is a awd.

#12 NuclearBacon

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 02:40 AM

my 91 leg wagon non turbo 2.2 man date 7-91 trans no. tz102za1aa this is a awd.


Ed, AWESOME!!!! I needed that ;) thanks Duder!

Keep em comin' Ladies and Gents!! Lets get those part numbers out there for people who don't have donor cars! Woohoo!

Heres a random pic for all your trouble...

Posted Image

Feel free to use this on the appropriate day...

Luigi

#13 Legacy777

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 01:18 PM

I should be able to look up those numbers in my parts book this evening and tell ya if the tranny came out of a 1st gen legacy or not.

#14 NuclearBacon

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 05:32 PM

I should be able to look up those numbers in my parts book this evening and tell ya if the tranny came out of a 1st gen legacy or not.


that would be awesome. AWESOME. I would love to have a library of part numbers for ALL the trannys for 90-00 Legacys.

If you know ANYTHING about the 6 digit serial # that follows the TZ number, that would also be appriciated. THANKS AGAIN!!!

#15 Legacy777

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 09:16 PM

The tranny is from a 92-94 turbo legacy. So the final drive ratio is 3.900

#16 NuclearBacon

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 12:51 PM

Yeah, i dont think i was making any sense, i've edited my posts a bit to change it from saying PART # to model #. I'm collecting a list of all the available MODEL numbers, years, and which Legacys they came out of, so i can go to the tranny shop, see a transmission sitting on the shelf, read the TZ MODEL number, and know it came out of a (19##) (NA or Turbo) (Wagon or Sedan) Legacy. I know others have the same question, so if people could just go out, and look under their hood, and write their tranny number down if you have an automatic...

that'd be so awesome.

I saw a dude at school with a legacy, and ran over to him, before i said anything i looked in his car (yeah this is while he was driving around looking for a parking spot) and he had a 5 speed so i just said nevermind. he probably thought i was crazy. help me out!!! :)

Luigi

#17 Legacy777

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 06:46 PM

I'm posting what I replied to your pm, so others will have the info as well.

I've got a parts book for the first gen legacies 90-94. There are a fair amount of options/trim levels between the different models. Despite this, they utilize the same transmission, hence the same transmission model code.

I'd rather not scan all that information in. If you are looking for a replacement transmission with the same final drive ratio, you'd want one from a 91 AT turbo, 92-94 AT turbo, or 92-94 AT n/a.

91 Turbo AT
TZ102ZJ1AA

92-94 normally aspirated AT
TZ102ZA2AA

92 Turbo AT
TZ102ZJ2AA

93-94 Turbo AT
TZ102ZJ3AA

The above codes are the different transmission models that will have the same final drive ratio, 3.90

#18 Suzam

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 08:13 PM

I've got a MY95 2.2 auto the transmission number is:


TZ102ZAAAA

Engine number is:

EJ22ECAAGL

in case you wanted to know that also.

#19 NuclearBacon

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 09:01 PM

*Josh I hope you dont start hating me :) *

....you'd want one from a 91 AT turbo, 92-94 AT turbo, or 92-94 AT n/a.....

The above codes are the different transmission models that will have the same final drive ratio, 3.90


before in one of the first posts in the thread, you said :

The 90-91's were 4.111. I'm not sure about the 95+, but I would assume they're also 4.111.


so is that particular tranny model number a 3.900? or is it a 4.111. Also TUNERED threw out:

my 91 leg wagon non turbo 2.2 man date 7-91 trans no. tz102za1aa this is a awd.


Can I add this to my list of ok tranny's to pick up? Sorry i'm being such a hard@$$ about this, I just want to make sure i have as much knowledge as possible going to the tranny shop...and not get super SUPER skilled and replacing a transmission *if you catch my drift* by getting the wrong one.

Thank you SUZAM!!!! I appriciate you getting those numbers for me!

Thanks again everyone!!
Luigi

#20 Legacy777

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 10:03 PM

No, the 91 MY tranny will not work.

#21 tunered

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 10:56 PM

my 91 is for sure a 4.11

#22 NuclearBacon

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Posted 18 November 2005 - 10:50 PM

I just wanted to thank everyone for their help, i hope this thread can clear up peoples model number questions on the 4EAT!

THANKS AGAIN!!!!!!

Luigi

#23 sunflyer61

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 12:20 AM

Guys: I have a dilemma.....I have a 1991 Legacy Turbo 4EAT TZ102ZJ1AA...just did a tranny swap.... the donor numbers are TZ102ZB3AA-N7

While driving the car there is a diff lock scenario where I feel alot of shudder and hear some growling noises in the center/tranny area. I put the fuse in for FWD and all the crap goes away.
The donor tranny is an Imported 2.0 turbo/tranny combo with all electronics and harnesses. The wiring from the tranny to the chassis was plug for plug...exact match. At this point only the tranny swap is in place. The engine will be installed in the next few months.
Here's what I would like to know.....What the heck is the tranny front and center ratio I have just put in front of my 3.900 viscuous rear diff? Again I have mated this with a 2.0 turbo tranny TZ102ZB3AA-N7. I have been told the engine is an EJ20T spec g with a black water cooled intercooler, igniters at each plug, and a 90 degree turbo, very likely from an Australian Legacy (Liberty)Turbo.
I need to decide how to proceed...first I need to know If my ratios are the same....does anyone have the ratio info for the donor tranny part# TZ102ZB3AA-N7
Next, I am wondering what the symptoms are of a fried rear diff. I became aware of the fact that this car had the FWD fuse "IN" blocking the AWD before I ever touched it. What does a viscous rear do when it ever fails?
I have lots of parts cars, own a Subaru repair shop and this one has me begging for your expertise. Please feel free to ask about parts availability, I will reward you for your kindness. By the way, I have two EJ22T strong running engines that I could make available to a worthy buyer! They are a radical difference from the non-turbo engines. Closed deck design!! I also have a ton of ea82 turbo and non-turbo parts engines and chassis-es(?)

#24 Gnuman

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 12:55 AM

Guys: I have a dilemma.....I have a 1991 Legacy Turbo 4EAT TZ102ZJ1AA...just did a tranny swap.... the donor numbers are TZ102ZB3AA-N7

While driving the car there is a diff lock scenario where I feel alot of shudder and hear some growling noises in the center/tranny area. I put the fuse in for FWD and all the crap goes away.


You know. . . That sounds a lot like Torque Bind, particularly a failing Duty C/valve body. If you jack the car up (all 4 off the ground) put the tranny in N, and release the handbrake, can you turn the propeller shaft by hand (it should turn both rear wheels then). If there is no noise, and you can turn the propellor shaft by hand when there is no external hold on the shaft, then I'd say that the rear diff is fine. Can you get the matching rear diff to go with that tranny? I would not buy a tranny for a Subaru unless I knew that teh final drive ratio was identical to mine, or they sent a rear diff with it.

#25 Legacy777

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Posted 17 December 2005 - 09:15 PM

Unfortunately, you can't tell the final drive ratio from the trans number
http://www.main.expe...rans_decode.jpg

Your duty c solenoid is more then likely fine. I say that because inserting the fuse makes the torque bind go away. You've either got different final drive ratios, or the clutch plates are going.

Only way I can think to check the final drive ratio is the drain the fluid from the diff, pear inside, and see if you can count the teeth on the ring gear.




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