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Historic Ice Racing On Lake George!


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#1 Mike Kamm

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 08:21 PM

Posted Image

Lake George 1969. Tom O'Connor in the two stroke #99 Saab and Ken Watkins in his #19 "Fierce Sparrow" Fiat.

Hello everyone,

As the current VP of the Adirondack Motor Enthusiast Club [A.M.E.C.], I'd like to announce an exciting new race class for our 2006 ice racing season. We are a year round motorsports club and have recently celebrated our 50th year of operation this past summer. What we are best known for however is our winter ice racing series on the frozen lakes of the southern Adirondack mountains just north of Albany, NY. We have been Ice Racing our automobiles on the lakes of New York's Capital district for the past 40 years.

This year we have decided to host a new exhibition class called the "Historic Class" to showcase some of those classic Saab, Volvo, Datsun, Citroen, Chevy, Ford, VW, MG, Subaru, Mini, Fiat, Porche, etc. ice racing cars like the one's from our past. The new Historic class will be run on the Saturday of the biggest ice racing event of the season, the two day Lake George weekend. There will be an abbreviated schedule for all regular classes to ensure plenty of seat time for your Historic class ice racer. We've already got over a half dozen early Saab 93's and 96's and Sonnetts slated to run, so it will look like 1969 out there all over again!

This is a very unique opportunity to run these cars with little or no investment. Just like we did in 1965! Rules are very liberal. All you'll need is a helmet, a fire extinguisher, and a number on the door. Although full safety equiptment is welcomed, you don't need a race prepared vehicle to run. I'm bringing my early Datsun B210 street car. We are accepting cars to 1974. This is a chance for you to break out those old studded tires once again! Some '75 to '79 cars may be accepted. Simply contact me at: mkamm@icerace.com with your request. We run on a 1 to 1.5 mile custom plowed road course, and this will be a contact-free vintage racing exhibition, not a Nascar demo derby.

Click on the link to our message board thread for a detailed description and all of the latest info regarding this new class is HERE.

Please visit the A.M.E.C. website at icerace.com.

Thanks,

Michael Kamm
A.M.E.C. VP
Historic Class Coordinator

#2 moosens

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 08:49 PM

I'll do my best to make it.


So,you're looking for 1974 and earlier but would accept a '75-79??
Did I read that right?

#3 the sucker king

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 10:56 PM

Lake George 1969. Tom O'Connor in the two stroke #99 Saab and Ken Watkins in his #19 "Fierce Sparrow" Fiat.


i was born in lake george in 1969. im serious. ever heard of top of the world?

#4 75subie

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 09:16 AM

hey Paul, what do you say, you in your 4wd gen one, me in the 78 brat, and Andrew in the splitgate:lol:

i`d like to at least go watch this, not too far from lake George. that area seems to be extremely packed in the summer and empty in the winter.

#5 Mike Kamm

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 11:28 PM

I'll do my best to make it.


So,you're looking for 1974 and earlier but would accept a '75-79??
Did I read that right?

Sorry for the dealy in replying. I didn't realize that I am not automatically subscribed to the threads I post in on this site.

Yes, that's exactly right. We say that we accept some cars up through '79 because we don't want VW Rabbits out there. There are still a half dozen racing with us every week. Subarus up to '79 are welcome. They must be decent looking cars though. All four tires must be true winter type tires. No all season or [gulp] summer tires allowed. :)

Take a look at the list of fine automobiles signed up so far:

C.N.Y.I.R.A.
Nick Julian, 3 cars:
* Harold Cameron's former Saab 96
* Huck Spaulding's championship winning orange #80 Saab 96 [Dave Wiltse driving]
* Homer Trotter's Saab 96 rallye car
Casey Creamer, Burdett, NY, '60 Austin Healy Sprite
Ann Jordan, "Rotary Rocket", 1972 Mazda RX2
Bill Lass, Buffalo, NY, Saab 95 [wagon model]
Karl Hughes, East Syracuse, NY, '73 BMW 2002
A.M.E.C. and others
Dave Burnham, Delanson, NY, '66 Citroen DS21
Bruce Turk, '61 Saab 96 Rallye Car
Tom Baird, Caroga Lake, NY, '72 Saab Sonnett
Mike Kamm, Averill Park, NY, '77 Datsun B210
Sam Patterson, Saquiot, NY, Saab 96
Sue Salsburg, NJ, 56 MGA
Eric Nelson, Longmeadow, MA, Saab 96
Bob LeGere, Pleasant Valley, CT, '71 Opel Ascona
Steve Garret, Delaware, '60 Austin Healy Sprite
Rik Rydant, High Falls, NY, '66 Saab 96
Bob Addis, Cohoes, NY, 1960 DKW 3 cylinder, 2 stroke
Jim Hutchings, Utica, NY, Bull Nose Saab 96
Max Stratton, New Hampshire, Triumph Spitfire
Charles Christ Sr. Breinigsville. PA, orange '60 Saab 93F SVRA # 251
New Meadows Ice racing in Maine:
Charlie Thompson's crew from the Cumberland Motor Club are getting ready two Saab Sonnetts and a Saab 99.
Dave King, Wolwich, ME, '76 Mercury Capri [I love those!]
From the Vintage Auto Racing Assoc. of Canada:
Volvo 122

#6 Mike Kamm

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 11:30 PM

i was born in lake george in 1969. im serious. ever heard of top of the world?

It sounds familiar. Would that be nearby Mt. Prospect?

#7 Hondasucks

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 01:22 AM

What's wrong with VW Rabbits?

#8 88HatchMonster

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 01:36 AM

What's wrong with VW Rabbits?


I'm guessing they're a little low-class for this event.

Hardly a "fine automobile" like a Saab or a BMW :-p

#9 75subie

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Posted 15 December 2005 - 05:56 AM

i have to say, i loved all the vw rabbits i ever owned. the gas models were very zippy and the diesels had decent power, all of them handled great in the snow and on dry pavement, really just great all around cars. i think people use them for racing.around here the strut towers always rust out.

#10 WagonsOnly

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 02:22 AM

Probably that, and a '75 looks too much like an '84 ('92 when you look at the Cabrio). They're just too far ahead of their time.

(I did love both my bunnies dearly...RIP Rabbits)

And I have no intention of ice-racing a 32-year-old FWD Subaru, sorry, Jon, Paul. You know how it is.

#11 Mike Kamm

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 08:22 AM

Actually,


We were hoping for a really nice example like this to attend.

Posted Image

#12 75subie

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 08:29 AM

the guy who owns that is converting it to electric power.

#13 Mike Kamm

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 08:35 AM

the guy who owns that is converting it to electric power.

Really, you know him?

I saw this car for sale on someone's front lawn last fall. It's a low mileage beauty! Why mess with the drivetrain?

I knocked on the door, nobody home. I left my email address and phone number, No one ever got back to me.

#14 75subie

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 08:46 AM

the guy who had it for sale put it on ebay, and a member in Maine on here bought it, and is onverting it to electric power, not really sure why, but i was looking into buying his old gas motor

#15 Mike Kamm

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 06:11 PM

Hello Historic drivers and fans,

Although it's early Fall, the subject of Historic Class Ice Racing is still hot hot hot!

As a result, the A.M.E.C. officials have discussed it at our recent monthly meeting and the decision has been made:

We're doing it again for 2007!

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Although it wasn't our initial intention for this to be an annual event, the feedback from the racers from our inaugural Historic Ice Racing event this past February was so positive and persistent, that we feel compelled to do it again this winter. Much to our surprise, our historic ice race driver's enthusiasm has not waned in the off season. In fact, I have been contacted by several people who have acquired, or are restoring cars specifically for this event. Evidently there were quite a few people that had the sit back, wait and see approach for our inaugural event, which was the first of it's kind in the US. Some came to spectate and "test the waters" so to speak. Now after witnessing our inaugural event they are ready to join the fray after seeing how much good clean fun they missed. Exhibition ice driving/racing is an absolutely unique driving experience and combining it with the spectacle of classic sports and compact cars is simply something a true enthusiast needs to take part in at least once in their lifetime! But I must warn, you, it's hard to go ice racing just once. Trust me on this one.

How hot is the subject of A.M.E.C.'s unique Historic ice racing event? Last month I was contacted by David Wallens and Scott Lear of Grassroots Motorsport and Classic Motorsport magazines. They follow my updates on their message board in regards to A.M.E.C.'s Historic ice racing. They also noticed that my Historic Ice Racing thread there has over 9,000 hits! It can be seen here: Classic Motorsports thread They've added a nice blurb in this month's Classic Motorsport magazine with a color picture of Bruce Turk's Saab 96 rallye car and an announcement of our 2007 event. Posted Image

How hooked are some of last year's participants? I hear from the Historic Racers more often during the summer than from any other class. These guys are pumped!

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Rik Rydant's been working on his #41 Saab 96 has a brand new Polar White paint job on it.
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Dan Dobbins has been working feverishly on his #415 Studebaker Lark and just installed a "twin traction" differential. He said the Saabs will be quaking on their studded tires this winter!

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Steve Garrett says he can't wait to get his beautiful white #23 Bugeye Sprite back on the ice!

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Bruce Turk, the President of the Vintage Saab Club of North America, has once again accepted our invitation to participate in the 2007 Historic class races this winter with his classic Saab 96 rallye car.
We will once again be planning to hold the event on beautiful Lake George. Stay tuned for more details.

If there's one message to get across here, it would be to get the old iron out of storage and ready to run now, while the long [and warm] days are here. It sure beats working on your cars on the ice. Several great cars did not make it out last winter because the owners procrastinated. You know what they say.... Get 'Em Running Guys! The weather can only be better for this year's event right?

Michael Kamm
A.M.E.C. Historic Race Coordinator
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To read about and view the A.M.E.C. 2006 inagural Historic Ice Racing event click HERE.

#16 Mike Kamm

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 11:33 PM

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2007 A.M.E.C. Historic Event Rules
The rules for this year's Historic Ice races will be the same as last year's inaugural event. Once again there will be three Historic Class divisions. Those will be based on the tires used. They are a rubber to ice class, a street stud class, and a screw tire class. In other words, all drivers are welcome to choose from any winter tire new or old, studded or not, and can also choose to use the home built "screw tires" A.M.E.C. used years ago before we switched to the purpose built Menard ice racing tire we run today. Menard Ice racing tires will not be legal to use for the Historic class. This is not intended to be a seriously competitive race. It is intended to be an exhibition for fun, although I'm sure there will be some careful, but spirited drives put in by some. Yes, there will be a big disparity between the different cars and tires used, but that's why we will grid the faster classes in front. Refer to the "Gridding" subtitle below.
Three Classes
Rubber to Ice Class:
This one is self explanatory. Any winter tire new or old is legal. Period correct tires are preferred, but if you want to use the new Bridgestone REVO 1's go for it! Tractionizing IS allowed. This is the old days folks. :D
Street Stud Class:
This class utilizes street studded winter tires. The number of street studs is limited to 30 per linear foot of tread surface. The old Maxi-Trac studs ARE allowed for this race. Any length stud may be used, keeping in mind that excessive stud projection will cause premature loss of stud.
Screw Tire Class
This class uses the old home built "screw" tires of old. Up to #12 sheet metal screws may be substituted for studs. They must be driven through the tire from the inside and may project no more than 3/16ths of an inch. The number of screws will be limited to 28 per linear foot of tread. Over length screws must be ground down to the proper length. There is a "How To" article on these tires HERE.
Car Eligibility:
This event is open to pre-'75 vintage cars. Some '75 to '79 cars may be accepted, including all round headlight Japanese cars to '79. Simply contact me at: mkamm@icerace.com with your request. This race is not limited to former ice racing cars only. Street driven and vintage race cars are welcomed with open arms.
Course Layout:
A.M.E.C. races are run on frozen road courses, approximately 1.5 miles in length.
Gridding:
We will grid the faster screw tire class first, followed by the street stud and rubber to ice classes for safety. We do the same for our weekly street legal no-contact classes. We have found that having the faster cars come up through the pack from the rear is counterproductive to the no contact rule.
Daily agenda and race format:
Friday, February 23rd:
We will once again offer a complimentary driver's school and test 'n tune event on Friday afternoon after the track is plowed. Friday's track time will be for Historic Class drivers only. Sorry, no regular weekly ice racing class cars will be allowed.
Saturday, February 24th:
There will be a 10 minute morning warm up session for all cars, followed by three 20 minute heat races, during Saturday's program. All three classes race in the same heats. Just like 40 years ago, standing starts will be employed.
*Bonus race* Sunday, February 25th:
We have added an additional heat race to the lineup before Sunday morning's regular program gets underway. This will be the first group out on the course and will give all of the historic racers who are staying over on Saturday night extra seat time on the ice before heading back home. We're sure that Sunday's spectators will appreciate it too!
Dinner and Awards:
A.M.E.C. will be presenting trophies for the top three finishers for all three Historic classes on Saturday night, A.M.E.C. will be having a dinner and awards presentation in our own banquet room at the host hotel.
Host Hotel information:
The host hotel for this event will the Holiday Inn Turf- Lake George [right in the village, less than a minute from the lake] http://www.lakegeorgeturf.com/. Hotel Reservations:1-888-HOLIDAY (888-465-4329)
Hotel Front Desk: 1-518-6685781

This is where the action will be before and after the races. It is right next door to the Mount Prospect Diner [where morning race registration will be], and where the racers and their families will be dining, including the special Saturday night awards banquet. There is a special low rate for ice racers, but to take advantage of it, you must reserve your room by February 9th to get the lower rate.

Anyone considering participating or having any questions is asked to please contact Mike Kamm at: mkamm@icerace.com or phone (518) 674-0520.
I also have a Historic Class email list that I use for updates. To join the list simply email me at the address above.

#17 Mike Kamm

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 03:39 PM

Historic Class Update
Great news, the ice on Lake George actually skinned over about a week earlier than usual this year. At this point things are shaping up very nicely to hold our second Historic Ice racing event as planned, on beautiful Lake George right in front of Million Dollar Beach. And all of this during the Lake George Winter Carnival! Take a look at the events going on in town and on the lake during this time: http://www.lakegeorg..._weekend_4.html

We are planning to hold a dinner banquet on Saturday night February 24th, at our event host hotel, the Lake George Holiday Inn.
All ice racers and guests are invited to join us for a buffet dinner and awards presentations after the races.

PA's Steve Garret just finished up his first pair and is working on the second pair as we speak. Steve built these tires from the directions I outlined in the article I wrote in THIS thread.
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Screws inserted from the inside out.
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He found a used set of 13" snow tires and these look to be good candidates because of their blocky tread and simply because the rubber has hardened over the years and will now hold the screws much better. Due to these not being full tread tires, Steve used shorter 1" #12 sheet metal screws. Here's how they look before they are trimmed to the club spec of 3/16ths of an inch.
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The finished product.
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Steve said they took about four hours each, just like it did back in the day.
He also said that the most arduous part of the job was grinding the rubber inner flaps to a feather edge. He got them for free from a pile of used inner tire flaps at a local farm implement supply store.
With these tires and Steve's welded differential, this hotted up 1960 Austin Healy Sprite will be running with the big dogs this year!

#18 Mike Kamm

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 03:42 PM

Current Driver's Roster

[Where are the Subarus? :-\ ]

Rubber to Ice class
#71 Sam Patterson, Saquiot, NY, '69 Saab 96 -
#34 Eric Nelson, Longmeadow, MA, '71 Saab 96 V-4
Street Studs
#41 Rik Rydant, High Falls, NY, '66 Saab 96
#112 Brian Hunter, Toronto Ontario Canada, '68 Volvo 122
#12 Ian Lok, Toronto Ontario Canada, Volvo 122
#6 Theodore Goneos, Connecticut, Porsche 911
#11 Tom Cox, Woodstock, MD, 1970 Saab 96 V-4
#415 Daniel and Richard Dobbins, Long Island, NY, '62 Studebaker Lark
Screw tires
#96 Bruce Turk, Walden, NY, '61 Saab 96 Rallye Car
#35 Tom Baird, Caroga Lake, NY, '72 Saab Sonnett
#23 Steve Garrett, Philly, PA, '60 Austin Healy Sprite
#42 Mike Kamm, Averill Park, NY, '77 Datsun B210
#1 Casey Creamer, Burdett, NY, '69 Alfa Romeo Berlina
#00 Nick Julian, Saab 96 V-4
I have been busy organizing this event and have sent my Historic email list several detailed updates already, including yesterday's announcement of the opening of event registration. If you would like to be added to the list and receive up to the minute info for this event, simply send an email to mkamm at icerace dot com.
Online registration form is HERE.
Registration is now open and all are encouraged to sign up for this event. You can print them out, bring them with you, and present them to me on the ice on Friday, or at Saturday morning's regular race registration in the Mt. Prospect Diner [next door to the Holiday Inn host hotel]. There is no need to send any money now, but please email me or call me at (518) 674-0520 and tell me your coming. I want to keep a current log of entries for this event on our message board. I also need to know what car number you will use. And if you can, please email me a digital picture or two with a little info about your car.
Thanks,
Michael Kamm
Adirondack Motor Enthusiast Club
Historic Ice Race Coordinator

#19 waimaks

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 11:27 PM

I wish things froze here...
That looks like a hobby that'd be awsome.
Hope all goes well for you guys!

#20 Mike Kamm

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 11:57 PM

I wish things froze here...
That looks like a hobby that'd be awsome.
Hope all goes well for you guys!

Thanks waimaks,

We enjoy it very much. I've been at it for 15 years, but we have one member who has been a member for 52 years! He is still racing too!

Posted Image

#21 waimaks

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Posted 03 February 2007 - 03:26 AM

Wow that guy in the sprite is keen. Roof down in the snow, legend.
:)

#22 Mike Kamm

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 09:11 PM

The Historic racers will once again be treated to a complimentary event T-shirts courtesy of RiK Rydant and A.M.E.C.
Posted Image
Rik designed the graphics and produced the limited edition 2007 Lake George Historic Ice racing T-shirts at his Teebirds Design screenprinting facility in High Falls, NY.
Posted Image
Thanks RiK! Posted Image

#23 75subie

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 09:17 PM

wow nice saab storyzzz

i actually really like those 96's but the 95 wagons are awesome too.

#24 Mike Kamm

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 04:58 PM

Wow, what a weekend. I think it's safe to say that A.M.E.C.'s second Historic Ice Racing weekend exceeded everyone's expectations!
We had the two main ingredients we were missing last year - the weather and the location. We were fortunate to have been able to hold this event where it all started back in 1965, in beautiful Lake George. We were treated to sunny skies, temps in the upper 20's, and virtually no wind. What more could you ask for right?
The Cars were the stars......
Posted Image
Take a look at this action. Sam Patterson's Blizzak equipped V4 powered Saab 96 was running in front of some street stud and even screw some tire class cars! The mud on the front fender illustrates that Sam flat towed this car to the lake [behind a Saab 9000] all the way from Saquoit, NY.
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Pennsylvania's Steve Garrett was having the time of his life sliding his 1960 Austin Healy Bugeye Sprite through the corners on his home built screw tires. He was among the quickest all weekend. There's only one car he couldn't quite keep up with......
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...and that was Bruce Turk's fabulous 2-stroke Saab 96, with it's finely tuned 750 GT rally engine under the bonnet. Bruce was running on a donated pair of 30+ year old home built screw tires.
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Here was one of the greatest battles in Historic racing all weekend. The classic FWD vs RWD street stud match up between Bill Lass and Mike "Fuzzy" Space. Bill is driving his '68 Saab 96 with V4 power, and Fuzzy is right there with the oldest vintage car of this event - a '59 Volvo 544! Get this: both of these guy's drove these cars over 600 miles to and from this event! Bill drove his Saab in from Buffalo, NY and Mike his Volvo from Bethlehem, PA! Yes, this is the car that appeared in Classic Motorsports magazine this fall in the "Ran when parked" column. The amazing thing is that Mike has had never driven this car more than 15 miles from home before. Both men drove their classics to the race, raced all weekend, and drove them home. Just like it was done 40 years ago!
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And how about Bob Addis' 1964 Corvair Monza Spyder? This guy is the real deal, running top down and during the first race, sporting a pair of chrome framed driving goggles! This car brought back many fond memories for some of our senior members, who were there 40 years ago when air cooled flat sixes with studded tires populated the RWD class.
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Mike Space's 544 followed by Casey Creamer's '69 Alpha Romeo Berlina and Tom Baird's beautiful '73 Volvo P1800ES.
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Taking the checkered flag in front of about a thousand spectators with the Lac du Saint Sacrement cruise boat in the background.....only on Lake George folks!

We'd still love to host a few Subies. Anyone game for next year?

#25 moosens

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 06:42 PM

Always a possibility.

Just a bad year for me to get up there.

Sure would like to smoke the field.Nothing against the cars entered,but naturally we here feel a good old 4WD Subaru can smoke 'em.;)

Give me time....:cool:




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