Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

I just bought a '79 Subi 4wd Wagon... HELP!


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 tjZ06

tjZ06

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • San Jose, CA

Posted 27 November 2005 - 07:02 AM

NOTE: If you'd rather not read the background story skip to the next NOTE.

Let me preface this post with a little about myself. I'm an avid AutoXer, and will be taking up track-days at local Road Courses come spring. My "fun" car is a highly moddified '02 Z06 Corvette. It's currently putting down 428RWHP and 402 RWTQ, though I have parts sitting next to me as I type that should push both figure up by 10-15. The car has suspension and chassis mods as well, and is corner weighted and otherwise dialed in for its tasks. It's an amazing car, and does a lot of things well. But there's some strange part inside of me that isn't wholey satisfied.

So I was sitting around with a friend of mine, either a) still drunk from the night before or B) in a hung-over fog. Either way, we're dicussing a new car for my girlfriend. She and I both have cabins (well, our families do, but we have access) but neither of us have a vehicle to take us there (ever to mine in Idaho, in the winter months to hers outside of Tahoe). I have a '89 MazDUH B2200 for a daily driver and she has a '95 Saturn SC2. So my suggestion for her was to find a reasonable deal on a used Outback. So my buddy Jason looks around on craig's list just to see what the market is like and finds this:

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

For sale about 10 minutes from his place where we're chilling. Obviously not anything for the GF... but we decide we have to call the guy and take a look at it. About 2 hours and $485 dolars later it's ours.

NOTE: If you skipped the story, begin here.

It's a '79 Wagon w/ 4wd... the seller said the old lady he got it from called it a 1200 GL. Hell if I know if that's accurate. EVERYTHING WORKS. It's insane (it was last reg. in '99) every light, switch etc. works. The only mechanical issue I had was a dragging front right caliper, surely just frozen up from sitting. Other than that it's a complete DOG. And I'm not just saying that since I'm spoiled by a 428RWHP Z06. My MazDUH DD is certainly no race-car and it's smoke this thing. I know the dragging brake wasn't helping but it'd certainly not the only culprit.

My guesses to the cause are 1) 6 year old gas 2) it needs a full-on tune-up 3) it only had what, 65hp to start. ;)

Anyway, the plan for the car is to go RallyXing. Neither Jason (the co-buyer) or I had a suitable vehicle (I have the Zoh, he rocks a LS1/T56 swapped FD RX7)... untill now. So what can I do to this thing to make it more competent in every way ON THE CHEAP. Motor swaps? Mods to this motor? Suspension? What year Subis can I snag larger wheels off of? I forsee trouble finding cheap (used) knobby tires for a 13" rim. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I'd like to discuss two routes. Either keeping it smog/street legal so I can still fool around with it on the street for the hell of it, or f-it-all balls to the wall Rally build. Both would be el-cheapo of course. And if I choose the later I have the skills/shop/tools to build my own cage, shock hoops and such. Rebuild or swap the motor. Do some basic head porting. And things along those lines.

Sorry for the novel, and thanks for any help!

-TJ

PS- The Z06 for ************s 'n giggles...
Posted Image

#2 75subie

75subie

    I`m sold on Subaru

  • Members
  • 3,908 posts
  • Walden

Posted 27 November 2005 - 09:51 AM

congrats on the new car, i should have bought it:banghead: i just had a hard time sending the guy $550 with no proof.anyway, this car should suite you pretty well.

as for mods,
1. weber 32/36 carb
2. 2.5 inch exhaust going from the y pipe back to a glass pack (better flow)
3. ea81 2wd electronic disty swap
4. accell coil/plugs/wires
5. look for a set of 14 or 15 in peugeot wheels, they are the only ones with the same lug pattern as a sube.

with all these mods, you will have pretty decent power, for rallying, you may want to get some lsd`s.the exhaust will also sound nice and throaty.
take care,
Jon
(fellow gen 1 subathusiast)

#3 75subie

75subie

    I`m sold on Subaru

  • Members
  • 3,908 posts
  • Walden

Posted 27 November 2005 - 09:56 AM

oh yea, it would be a 1600 gl, the motor is an ea71 1.6.

lets see more pics if possible:brow:

#4 tjZ06

tjZ06

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • San Jose, CA

Posted 27 November 2005 - 03:00 PM

oh yea, it would be a 1600 gl, the motor is an ea71 1.6.

lets see more pics if possible:brow:


We're towing it to our shop today (expired tags and the dragging brake prevent the ~50 miles drive) so if I can get my hands on a digi-cam (every time I'm going to buy one I go do something like buy a Subi instead :P ) I'll have some pics from top 'n bottom.

BTW, where would I source LSDs for it? What year/model do they come from? Assuming a non-emmisions build is 100hp ever possible? What I'm considering is pulling a head and claying for piston to valve clearance. Once I've determined how much I can mill off the head without running into P-to-V problems I'll try for a mill to bump the measly 8.5:1 compresion closer to 10:1 if I plan for 91 or as high as I can get it "safely" if I plan on "the good stuff."

Is there a cam I can swap into the motor? Say a EA81 cam if it'd bolt up? How much more lift does it have? Will the EA71 valve springs support that lift? Would I be better off just swapping on EA81 heads? Do they even bolt up? What's a good source for the Weber 32/36? Etc. Etc. Etc.

-TJ

PS- Looking at your sig it sounds like you have a lot of nice rust-free Subis. Well this one is certainly not rust free, I doubt it would have been "the right buy" for you. I'm going to make a patch panel to replace the lower frew inches of the pass. front driver door (right below the natural body crease) and there's a few little holes I'll need to cut 'n patch. Then there's plenty of lighter stuff to sand, Por15 and fill. Then she'll get a full respray (ralley theme). I'd say it's not a good restoration platform, but for Rallying around in the dirt it'll work just fine.

#5 75subie

75subie

    I`m sold on Subaru

  • Members
  • 3,908 posts
  • Walden

Posted 27 November 2005 - 03:26 PM

i have a complete weber kit if you would be interested, it only has 200 miles on it.as for cams, your best bet would be to have delta cams do some for you.your better off staying with ea71 heads, but fe coupes have a higher commpression if you found one at a junk yard.

phantom grip sells lsd kits, also late 80s subaru turbo wagons/rx`s/sedans usually have a 3.7 or 3.9 lsd, which can be swapped in easilly.

check out the pics of my brat from AZ:
http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=47681

Jon

#6 Ross

Ross

    Can't be bothered

  • Members
  • 1,865 posts
  • Christchurch, New Zealand

Posted 27 November 2005 - 05:59 PM

Remember, although there is plenty of piston/valve clearence, the intake manifold wont fit if you mill much off the heads!

#7 75subie

75subie

    I`m sold on Subaru

  • Members
  • 3,908 posts
  • Walden

Posted 27 November 2005 - 06:00 PM

this is true, its been a long time since i had an ea71 intake off:rolleyes:

#8 Zefy

Zefy

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,171 posts
  • Coquitlam B.C. Canada

Posted 27 November 2005 - 11:08 PM

you can get a delta cam... just do a search and it'll show up... but mind you to actually change the cam you have to take the whole engine appart(i think)...

weber carb... ummm...

for the LSD... you need to get a GL-10 or RX or something... like an 87... they have LSD's(not all of them did though)... if you go to a j/y you might be able to find one.... actually check though... there is a tag on the back of the diff that will say LSD on it... and you'll have to change the gearing from 3.7 to 3.9 for it to work... there is instructions on the USRM for that...

now if you want some uber power outa this thing... get rid of the manifold and bolt on 2 carbs right onto the heads... although i've only heard of this being done... then you can plane the heads to your hearts content... you'll get lots of power... but i dunno how do-able it is... you gotta REALLY want this to make something like that work...

thats obviously a little extreme... maybe a dual carb manifold (hard to find but not impossible) and if your really nuts... dual webers... that'd be sick...

anyways... lots of options...

#9 TheSubaruJunkie

TheSubaruJunkie

    I'M BAAAAAACK!

  • Members
  • 1,921 posts
  • Sacramento

Posted 28 November 2005 - 12:00 AM

I say you swap the 1600 out with a 1800. Its a simple swap, and the 1800 will accept the cam and weber better.

LSD's can be found in RX's from 1986-'89. Some other models may have them as an option. If your looking for one I have an extra I could probably be talked out of.

I have a buddy down in San Fran that has a EA81T motor and a RX Tranmission he's trying to get rid of. IF you want to make over 100hp thats the way to do it.

-Brian

#10 waimaks

waimaks

    Hey Boe!

  • Members
  • 700 posts
  • NZ

Posted 28 November 2005 - 12:19 AM

I say you swap the 1600 out with a 1800............EA81T motor and RX Tranmission..........


:brow:

#11 Kostamojen

Kostamojen

    From FF-1 to BRZ!

  • Members
  • 1,692 posts
  • Roseville, CA

Posted 28 November 2005 - 02:44 AM

It's a '79 Wagon w/ 4wd... the seller said the old lady he got it from called it a 1200 GL. Hell if I know if that's accurate. EVERYTHING WORKS. It's insane (it was last reg. in '99) every light, switch etc. works. The only mechanical issue I had was a dragging front right caliper, surely just frozen up from sitting. Other than that it's a complete DOG. And I'm not just saying that since I'm spoiled by a 428RWHP Z06. My MazDUH DD is certainly no race-car and it's smoke this thing. I know the dragging brake wasn't helping but it'd certainly not the only culprit.

My guesses to the cause are 1) 6 year old gas 2) it needs a full-on tune-up 3) it only had what, 65hp to start. ;)

Anyway, the plan for the car is to go RallyXing. Neither Jason (the co-buyer) or I had a suitable vehicle (I have the Zoh, he rocks a LS1/T56 swapped FD RX7)... untill now. So what can I do to this thing to make it more competent in every way ON THE CHEAP. Motor swaps? Mods to this motor? Suspension? What year Subis can I snag larger wheels off of? I forsee trouble finding cheap (used) knobby tires for a 13" rim. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I'd like to discuss two routes. Either keeping it smog/street legal so I can still fool around with it on the street for the hell of it, or f-it-all balls to the wall Rally build. Both would be el-cheapo of course. And if I choose the later I have the skills/shop/tools to build my own cage, shock hoops and such. Rebuild or swap the motor. Do some basic head porting. And things along those lines.

Sorry for the novel, and thanks for any help!

-TJ


NICE FIND!!! :)

Ya, its a dog, but its still fun to drive around... You wont get stuck anywhere at least, but watch out for bay area freeway driving :P

Anyway, I agree with alot of suggestions here, especially if you don't have a limited budget... I'd go with either a fuel injected 1800 and 5-speed tranny, or screw it all and throw in a whole EJ22 drivetrain from an early 90's legacy or Impreza like some folks have done with brats (check the retrofit forum).

For suspension, theres not much that can be done easily in terms of bolt-ons... Maybe replace the shocks, but there arent many options for upgrades unless you have something custom made. Personally, I found when I got my new tires (205/45/15's) on with my new wheels (15" pugeot wheels) the handling improved greatly just getting a bit more rubber under the car... (latest pic of mine with the wheels/tires: http://community.web...458793324uMyRNS )

For the brakes, I just replaced my front rotors and pads. Worth it in terms of getting the car to operate properly when braking, but if you have major brake problems you might have to replace the master cylinder as well as the rear drums...

As for the rust, I see you have your own shop and experience, so ya, it sucks, lots of work ahead, LOL!!!


BTW, let me know if you can get it past emissions, I haven't been able to yet :-p

#12 Zefy

Zefy

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,171 posts
  • Coquitlam B.C. Canada

Posted 28 November 2005 - 02:55 AM

oh i completely forgot about non-engine related mods...

well not to many people know this...(shhh!) but the rear disc brakes of an RX or something will bolt right on...:brow: (SHHHH!!!):-p

second... if you look around on here you'll find that there is a guy who makes sweet struts for us gen 1'ers... his name is Mike... can't remember his user name... if you ask him to make you a set i think he will... i think his price is like 150 bucks or something? (don't quote me on that)

and using these struts you'll be able to run RX springs... which are slightly stiffer then yours and other models...

shocks are always a plus... ummmm... you're probably gonna want different seats... i always find i slip outa them when i turn sharply... (not to meantion they aren't amazingly comfortable...)

you can always make strut braces...(only in the front... rear is torsion bar...)

i went kinda nuts with the ea71 mods eh?:rolleyes:

getting an ea81 is probably better... its a more easily modded engine... but the ea82 you can't really use... people do use them, but they are 2 inches wider then your frame... so i'd stay away from that... the ej22 is i think like half an inch wider... so if you want to be able to take the cam covers off your gonna have to notch it about half an inch...

#13 tjZ06

tjZ06

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • San Jose, CA

Posted 28 November 2005 - 05:13 AM

I say you swap the 1600 out with a 1800. Its a simple swap, and the 1800 will accept the cam and weber better.

LSD's can be found in RX's from 1986-'89. Some other models may have them as an option. If your looking for one I have an extra I could probably be talked out of.

I have a buddy down in San Fran that has a EA81T motor and a RX Tranmission he's trying to get rid of. IF you want to make over 100hp thats the way to do it.

-Brian


PM me all details please. Will this motor bolt up? What fab work do I need to do (my friends and I can handle lots, just want to know what's in store). Is this EFI or carbed. This would give me the power AND front LSD right? Then I just need a rear LSD swap to rock 'n roll?

-TJ

#14 tjZ06

tjZ06

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • San Jose, CA

Posted 28 November 2005 - 05:16 AM

NICE FIND!!! :)

BTW, let me know if you can get it past emissions, I haven't been able to yet :-p


It already passed. Blew pretty clean too. So I'm free 'n clear on that for 2 years. I figure I'll say "forget emissions" now since in 2 years I doubt I'll want it as a street car. Though I'm already growing rather attached to this thing!?!

-TJ

#15 tjZ06

tjZ06

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • San Jose, CA

Posted 28 November 2005 - 02:01 PM

Remember, although there is plenty of piston/valve clearence, the intake manifold wont fit if you mill much off the heads!


I don't mind sectioning the intake, or just building a custom unit for something like dual webers if need-be. Right now I'm leaning towards the motor swap idea much more though.

-TJ

#16 TheSubaruJunkie

TheSubaruJunkie

    I'M BAAAAAACK!

  • Members
  • 1,921 posts
  • Sacramento

Posted 28 November 2005 - 03:37 PM

IF your looking for a front LSD, your going to be looking (or waiting) a while. No subaru's came stock with front LSD.

The Engine is MPFI, turbocharged. EFI of course. I could PM you with some contact information and see if he still has the stuff available. As far as mods to your car, you'll need to fabricate or install some tranny mounts. The EA81T will drop right in, but you may need to remove some metal here and there for the turbo to fit right. The 5 speed is a AWD Gearbox. Its a RX Tranny, so there is no FWD/4WD. Its all 4WD with a high/low selector and a center diff-lock switch. Which will convert from an open center diff to a locked 50/50 front/rear. The tranny will not bolt right in, your going to need custom drivelines and axles. The axle stubs on the tranny are 25 spline where'as the '78 will have something like 20 or 21 spline (maybe 23 spline). So custom CV joints are on order as well.

Its not an overnight job, but if you want that thing to scream, you wont find an easier way. A EA81 stock makes 76hp, a EA81T makes close to 90.

-Brian

#17 tjZ06

tjZ06

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • San Jose, CA

Posted 28 November 2005 - 05:42 PM

IF your looking for a front LSD, your going to be looking (or waiting) a while. No subaru's came stock with front LSD.

The Engine is MPFI, turbocharged. EFI of course. I could PM you with some contact information and see if he still has the stuff available. As far as mods to your car, you'll need to fabricate or install some tranny mounts. The EA81T will drop right in, but you may need to remove some metal here and there for the turbo to fit right. The 5 speed is a AWD Gearbox. Its a RX Tranny, so there is no FWD/4WD. Its all 4WD with a high/low selector and a center diff-lock switch. Which will convert from an open center diff to a locked 50/50 front/rear. The tranny will not bolt right in, your going to need custom drivelines and axles. The axle stubs on the tranny are 25 spline where'as the '78 will have something like 20 or 21 spline (maybe 23 spline). So custom CV joints are on order as well.

Its not an overnight job, but if you want that thing to scream, you wont find an easier way. A EA81 stock makes 76hp, a EA81T makes close to 90.

-Brian


Sure, PM me the details. I'm pretty interested depending on price. All the custom half-shafts and drive-shafts to do the tranny too will probably push this beyond what I'm willing to spend though. But I'll certainly look into it further. But if the motor will bolt up to my existing 4-speed I'd be all about that swap. I'm not worried so much about freeway cruiseability since I'll take it out on the street on occasion for pure perv-factor it'll get trailered to RallyXs so I can live w/ the 4-speed. Though if the center diff is open that sorta blows. I wonder if I can do a Lincoln Locker (aka weld the diff up solid, locked all the time) on the center diff. Hmm.

So I guess my question is this: will the EA81T bold up to my current bell-housing and which clutch/pressure-plate flywheel would I need to use (EA71 or EA81T)? I'm not worried about the metal work, mounts, intake and exhaust hookups, wiring etc. Just will it bolt to my tranny. Thanks.

-TJ

#18 Zefy

Zefy

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,171 posts
  • Coquitlam B.C. Canada

Posted 28 November 2005 - 07:09 PM

You don't need to weld a the center diff in your 4sp trans because it doesn't have one...:) (its a solid drive 50/50 front and back... same as welded...)

Do not weld the front diff... you won't be able to drive...:rolleyes:

the ea81T will not bolt up to your 4sp... for one big reason... your trans if you have a look has a top mounted starter... the ea81T has a side mounted one... i've heard of people switching over bellhouses and what not... but i've never seen any proof of it being done, or if it is do-able...

if you want to use the ea81T then get a ea81 trans... i think they have the same spline count... they don't have a center diff either so you don't need to weld anything there...

#19 tjZ06

tjZ06

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • San Jose, CA

Posted 28 November 2005 - 07:22 PM

You don't need to weld a the center diff in your 4sp trans because it doesn't have one...:) (its a solid drive 50/50 front and back... same as welded...)

Do not weld the front diff... you won't be able to drive...:rolleyes:

the ea81T will not bolt up to your 4sp... for one big reason... your trans if you have a look has a top mounted starter... the ea81T has a side mounted one... i've heard of people switching over bellhouses and what not... but i've never seen any proof of it being done, or if it is do-able...

if you want to use the ea81T then get a ea81 trans... i think they have the same spline count... they don't have a center diff either so you don't need to weld anything there...


I figured it was solid front/back since it seemed to behave that way and the selector wouldn't make much sense if it was open anyway.

And yes... I know not to weld the front diff... I have a fair 'mount of wheeling experience in Samis.

Thanks for the info. on the EA81T trans stuff though!

-TJ

#20 TheSubaruJunkie

TheSubaruJunkie

    I'M BAAAAAACK!

  • Members
  • 1,921 posts
  • Sacramento

Posted 28 November 2005 - 09:49 PM

Zefy is right. The 1600 bellhousing is different on their tranny's, and you'd need a EA81 tranny or EA82 tranny. There are some EA81's that were developed in 1981 that came in the brats. They had the top mounted bellhousing.

The RX Trans my friend has wasnt ever offered in the EA81. It actually came from a EA82T RX from '1987. The motor and Trans combo he has came from a 1983 DL WAgon a friend of ours built. Long story short, it was a beater wagon with a rally drivetrain and turbocharged EA81.

I think he has the CV's he used, but I'd suggest getting new ones. ShawnW here had a set made and i believe he can have more made too. When I get the contact info I'll PM You.

If your interested in a LSD for it, shoot me a PM.

-Brian

#21 RenaissanceMan

RenaissanceMan

    Sick in the Head 4 Subaru

  • Members
  • 706 posts
  • Atascadero

Posted 28 November 2005 - 11:06 PM

I can make those struts, though let me warn you ahead of time that you need to be prepared to go through a lot of axles :-\ I'm thinkin in the future I would mount the struts just a half inch lower in the knucles so we dont have this issue.

-Mike

#22 Snowman

Snowman

    Midnight Passenger

  • Members
  • 3,538 posts
  • Haines

Posted 29 November 2005 - 02:43 AM

If you swap an EA81 1800 motor in, you can convert that to SPFI fuel injection, which would help with drivability and power. The EA81 can also be bumped from (I can't remember if it's 8.7:1 or 9:1) compression to 9.5:1 compression by installing SPFI pistons. That should get you to around 90 hp, and with some other mods, like a cam, better exhaust, etc, you should be able to reach 100 pretty easily.

#23 tjZ06

tjZ06

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts
  • San Jose, CA

Posted 29 November 2005 - 05:57 PM

It's starting to sound like I should just do everything I can to this motor to get a bit more power out. Some minor lift and slightly bigger tires (too much and bigger and this thing isn't even going to move) along w/ some skid plates and stuff. Then I'm just going to beat the snot out of it. :)

-TJ

#24 TheSubaruJunkie

TheSubaruJunkie

    I'M BAAAAAACK!

  • Members
  • 1,921 posts
  • Sacramento

Posted 29 November 2005 - 08:31 PM

From what i hear lifting those cars are a pain in the rump roast.

A modified EA71 might make the same HP as a stock EA81. Maybe a hair more. The easiest bolt on is the weber carb.

-Brian




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users