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Re-visit EJ25 replacement with EJ22


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25 replies to this topic

#1 doogymon

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 01:21 PM

Great Site

Disclaimer: Haven't played with cars for a lonnnng time and I know this site has alot of threads about this subject. Sorry for any redundancy or improper terminology.

Finally got me a Subaru (been test driving for 8 years). 1997 Outback LTD 2.5L , 300k KM and pooched Head Gasket. I have placed a deposit on a 1995 EJ22 with 93k Km and will pay the rest as soon I have a warm and fuzzy confirmation that I can plug the 2.2L into the O/B.
Is it possible for some "corrective" comments on some of the variables/concepts listed below:


1. The 2.2L (EJ 22) must be a 1995 for a Transplant into a 1997 O/B because of the number of Tranny Bolts? i.e. Post 95 EJ22s went to 8 bolts?

2. The 2.2L must be a 1995 for a transplant into a 1997 O/B because the 95 2.2L has a dual Output Exhaust Manifold that will match up with the 97 Y pipe. Other years for the EJ22 did not have dual exhaust port.Therefore I also need the 95 2.2L exhaust manifold which is included with the EJ22 on hold.

3. The onboard 97 O/B ECU (OBD2) can remain and will plug and play with the 95 2.2L which is OBD2.

4. The 97 O/B is an Automatic Tranny. The 95 2.2L engine Tranny is unknown. I don't think this is an issue.

5. Would it be smart to change the timing belt, water pump and oil seals with the replacement EJ22 before I attempt to stick it in the car?

6. I think I saw a thread where a Suby Guru listed misc items to consider for a job like this like. He talked about engine mount rubbers and stuff like that. Any
ideas?

Thanks Subies. Thanks Emily

Really appreciate it

Merry Xmas from Doogymon

#2 lmdew

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 08:39 PM

I've done two of these 98 Legacy Outback 2.5 swapped to a 2.2 from a 95. Both were Outbacks had standard transimssions so I had good performance with the 2.2.

Yes, the 95 2.2 is a direct plug in. If you swap over the flex plate from your engine, that will bolt up to the transmission fine. Make sure you do NOT pull the torque convertor out of the trans at ALL. Keep it fully engaged back into the trans when you pull the engine.

I also pulled the vapor canster from the 95. The 97-98 has it in the tank area, but you can add the one up front and then you only have one vac. line to plug.

If you know the engine is good, I'd do the T-belt and water pump up front. If you think it may need other work, just put it in and make sure it works before you put any more money into it. Its not hard to do those items with the engine installed.

Good Luck

#3 99obw

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 09:48 PM

I have done this swap as well(not to our car). It can be done using the vapor canister in the rear with only mild futzing with the vacuum lines.

#4 Gnuman

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Posted 21 December 2005 - 10:20 PM

1 is false, 2 is true, 3 is true, 4 should not be an issue, 5:

If you got the engine from Emily, talk to her about the timing belt. CCR is a very reputable company. They may have put one on for you, but I cannot even begin to speak for them. That may be in the area that they do not touch as the belt to use varies from state to state.

#5 doogymon

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 08:18 PM

Thanks very much for your replies.

I will be elbows deep in a few weeks with changing the engine on my 97 OBW.

I may be popping in for a few questions so I thank you in advance.

Happy New Year

#6 grossgary

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 01:42 PM

i may be doing the same and have looked around and posted here before about this.

other era 2.2's can be used, doesn't have to be a 95. if you do, you'll have to swap the exhaust manifold as well. keep the 2.2 manifold with the 2.2 motor if it's not a '95. i have a '97 and '98 2.2 that i may be swapping into a 2.5. they will plug and play as well just like the '95.

#7 99obw

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 01:46 PM

i may be doing the same and have looked around and posted here before about this.

other era 2.2's can be used, doesn't have to be a 95. if you do, you'll have to swap the exhaust manifold as well. keep the 2.2 manifold with the 2.2 motor if it's not a '95. i have a '97 and '98 2.2 that i may be swapping into a 2.5. they will plug and play as well just like the '95.


Do the '97 and '98 have EGR?

#8 avk

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 02:45 PM

To have an EGR valve, the 2.2l needs to be from 1995 or later (but still phase I) car with auto transmission .

#9 pearlm30

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Posted 01 January 2006 - 07:38 AM

It will be nice for someone to document( step by step with photos ) the whole swap.:)

#10 ccrinc

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Posted 01 January 2006 - 10:30 AM

There is indeed one issue about swapping an EJ22 into a later model Outback.
In mid-'98, the bell housings on both the transmission and engine went from a 4 bolt to an 8 bolt pattern. So, if you try to put a '95 EJ22 into a '99 Outback (for instance) you do not have enough bolt holes to bolt up the starter.
Drilling an additional hole in the 4 bolt EJ22 is iffy at best, unless it's being done by one very precision drilling master.

After 5/98, there may be issues with sensors, OBDs, ECU, etc. Not enough swaps in that time range to have documented everything.

Emily
http://www.ccrengines.com

#11 grossgary

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Posted 01 January 2006 - 11:09 AM

i was just doing a search this morning and ran across two other threads from the past that don't mention any issue with the starter. never saw anyone have a starter issue, here are some examples, this is copied and pasted from my notes i'm keeping from this website:

________________________________________________________
Just finished putting a 95 Impreza 2.2 into a 98 Outback. Both were autos. All worked fine, but the flex plates are different size, by about 1/2" dia. (don't ask me how I fournd this out). You will need to keep flex plate from your Outback and bolt it up to the impreza engine.

The Air conditioning mount bracket has smaller mount bolts as well. Keep all the brackets from your Outback.
__________________________________________________________
well after gettin my 95' 2.2L engine outa the impreza donor car.. i set in to putting it in today..

started at 9:30 finish and drove the OBW for the first tim in a couple months at 4:30.. woulda took less time but i had to take it back out a 2nd time cause the wrx torque converter and flex plate would not work.. had to put my 2.5L flex plate and converter on..


#12 99obw

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 05:15 PM

We ran into the starter bolt issue. We figured we should drill and install a helicoil, but we were in a hurry, so we installed it minus one bolt and used blue loctite. No troubles so far, but certainly not the ideal way to do it.

#13 grossgary

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 05:56 AM

thanks emily and 99OBW!
funny noone mentioned that?

#14 srponies

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 08:16 AM

I just have a question to help me clarify regarding the exhaust manifolds on single port vs. dual port. It was mentioned that as long as you keep the single port manifolds on the single port motor ('96-'98), it will install fine. Same with the '95 dual port. So both will bolt up to the existing ('98 2.5) head/front exhaust Y-pipe? Guess what I'm saying is...Is it correct that if you install a 2.2 95-98 complete with exhaust manifolds it will bolt to the stock '98 2.5 Y-pipe? Did I confuse anyone other than myself here?


Thanks for the info,
Steve H.

#15 grossgary

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 08:18 AM

someone on another thread just posted that they swapped a 1997 2.2 (single port) into a 1997 2.5 (double port). he exchanged exhaust manifolds and it bolted right up. so you should be golden.

*******EDIT******
here's the link to that thread
http://www.ultimates...63&page=3&pp=10

#16 johnatg

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 12:50 PM

I just bought a 1997 Roo wagon with a blown 2.5l motor. I am considering a 2.2l swap due to all the advise I see here. I've done 4 engine swaps on other import and domestic vehicles. Is this truly a drop in swap? Will I need to purchase any hoses or belts? any other misc stuff? Id appreciate hearing from anyone who has done this swap before. Thanks very much Johnatg:lol:

#17 johnceggleston

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 04:17 PM

pretty much it it a drop in and bolt up.

one exception,
if the ej22 does not have the same exhaust ports as the ej25 you will need to swap the exhaust y-pipe. 95 has matching exhaust ports, 96 - 98 do not. your ideal donor car for the swap is the 95 ej22 auto trans.

regardless of which ej22 you choose you will need/want to do the following.

use the ej25 flex plate if it is an auto trans. ( i don't know about manual trans, so check the fly wheels both before you put the engine back in.)

unbolt the AC compressor but leave it connected to the AC lines, just flop it out of the way.

the ej25 power steering lines work, but there is a mid-point support bracket that does not match the ej22 engine. most folks just let them hang without any problems. (if you happen to have the ej22 car the engine came from you can swap in the p/s line from it and it will be perfect.

in order to avoid a CEL light and code, you want to use an ej22 with EGR. generally this means 95 -96 auto trans or almost any 97 - 98 ej22. (there are a very very few 97 - 98 ej22 that do not have egr.) 90 - 94 will bolt in and run just fine but you will have a cel and egr code. not good for emissions testing.

and finally, if you have an auto trans, read up on seating the torque converter before you re-install the engine. click on the link in my signature below.

what did i miss?

Edited by johnceggleston, 23 March 2010 - 04:21 PM.


#18 subaru360

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 06:13 PM

pretty much it it a drop in and bolt up.

one exception,
if the ej22 does not have the same exhaust ports as the ej25 you will need to swap the exhaust y-pipe. 95 has matching exhaust ports, 96 - 98 do not. your ideal donor car for the swap is the 95 ej22 auto trans.

regardless of which ej22 you choose you will need/want to do the following.

use the ej25 flex plate if it is an auto trans. ( i don't know about manual trans, so check the fly wheels both before you put the engine back in.)

unbolt the AC compressor but leave it connected to the AC lines, just flop it out of the way.

the ej25 power steering lines work, but there is a mid-point support bracket that does not match the ej22 engine. most folks just let them hang without any problems. (if you happen to have the ej22 car the engine came from you can swap in the p/s line from it and it will be perfect.

in order to avoid a CEL light and code, you want to use an ej22 with EGR. generally this means 95 -96 auto trans or almost any 97 - 98 ej22. (there are a very very few 97 - 98 ej22 that do not have egr.) 90 - 94 will bolt in and run just fine but you will have a cel and egr code. not good for emissions testing.

and finally, if you have an auto trans, read up on seating the torque converter before you re-install the engine. click on the link in my signature below.

what did i miss?


90-94 engines will not work.

#19 notnowles

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 08:52 PM

I am following this thread because I have a 90 EJ22 with not too many miles and I would like to part out this car and use the engine in a newer wagon (for which I have been looking). My thinking has been to find a newer car with a bad EJ25 engine, and replace it with mine. Reason being that the body on my old 90 sedan is not good, and it should be easier to find a younger wagon with a decent body.

So, it sounds as though I could put my car's engine in something as new as 95 but run into the problem of no EGR on my car?

And into something newer than a mid 97, my engine simply will not work because of the bolt pattern change?

Just trying to get this straight so I don't buy a car that needs an engine I don't have.

Thanks!

#20 subaru360

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 09:10 PM

Most of the sensors and wiring on the 90-94 engine are different.

#21 Olnick

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 10:03 PM

What subaru360 said. Older Legacies (through '94) were OBD-1, wouldn't be able to communicate with the newer OBD-2 computer ('95 on).

#22 johnatg

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 10:15 AM

I just bought a 1997 Roo wagon with a blown 2.5l motor. I am considering a 2.2l swap due to all the advise I see here. I've done 4 engine swaps on other import and domestic vehicles. Is this truly a drop in swap? Will I need to purchase any hoses or belts? any other misc stuff? Id appreciate hearing from anyone who has done this swap before. Thanks very much Johnatg:lol:


7/12/10 I finished the eng swap. Much thanks to johnceggleston, your advice was right on. I did have some sensor problems (had to replace 02 and cam,crank,sensors) But the eng install was straightforward. I used a 1995 2.2l legacy motor into a 1997 Legacy. I bought a used eng from a junkyard for $650.00. So far so good. One note this car was an automatic, and now its a bit sluggish off the line. I still would do the same swap because I think the 2.2l motor is alot stronger. Again thanks johnceggleston. :)

#23 grossgary

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 10:31 AM

nice job getting it to work. not sure what problems you would have had, but the sensors aren't ever an issue with this swap so it would have been failed sensors, not a problem with the swap.

an EJ22 ECU and/or TCU might help with the sluggishness. i've swapped them and didn't notice any difference but that was only one shot and my car isn't a standard swap.

#24 whatnow490

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 08:12 PM

Gonna back pack off this post I have a 95 legacy 2.2 motor AT will this work in a 2000 legacy standard that used the 2.5 before the swap. I see where this would work for the above 97 but was wondering before i pulled the 2.2 if it would work in the 2000 model.Thanks for any help that can be given.



#25 johnceggleston

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:00 PM

no, it will not swap into a 2000 car.

at least not easily and not with out a trouble light.

 

the 00 - 04 cars require that you use an engine from that group.






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