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ej22 crank pulley/harmonic balancer/woodruff key damage


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13 replies to this topic

#1 TheBigJ

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 02:12 AM

Well guys it's been a while since I needed or was able to offer any help. Now I am in it pretty deep I think.

I was having probs with temp guage in my car. Found a bolt in the wiring shorting something to ground erratically. While under hood noticed severe vibration in harmonic balancer so I checked main pulley bolt. Sure enough, loose.

Removed it and took off the pulley. The woodruff key had busted up pretty good, carving out the inside of the main pulley/balancer. I know it needs to be replaced.

On the other side, the keyway seems damaged. In some of the other threads I have read about welding this back together. I have a 235A AC welder but I am a mediocre welder at best. Does this need to be spot welded or a full penetration weld? If so, how would I ever replace timing belt/work on this area again? Can it be done with engine still in car?

I am confident the engine has many more miles on it but I do not see the value in yanking it for a teardown. I'd rather sell it and move on.

I am also tempted to work some other solution out in which I drill through the sprocket and crank, and then the pulley and crank in a radial direction and then tap and thread a set screw into each to hold the pulley and sprocket in place. I realize I cannot do this by hand, just tossing it around in my head. Need to devise a jig if I am going to explore this.

Anyone ever successfully repaired this before? Pics/methods much appreciated. I think I can source parts from a local yard.

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#2 cookie

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 11:50 AM

I've done it on a Mercedes. I made a special key that fit the crank groove and narrowed it to fit a new harmonic balancer. The crank was mucked up so I turned it smooth by running the engine for a few minutes at a time with the radiator out. I started with a file and brought it down to emory paper. I had to even the slot in the crank a bit with the Dremel tool if I recall. Fit tight and worked fine and was much cheaper than a new crank and engine rebuild for a Mercedes. I think the larger key was less than a buck from the local hardware store and I got a used damper on the Internet for about $70.

This lasted a year in my use and three years later the guy is still running the car with that engine. If somebody has it apart later and loses that key they are in for a surprise though.

#3 DrKrazy

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 12:56 PM

Seen that a few times on my wife's legacy, was bought like that. Came apart 6 months later...got a new drift and pulley...welded it to the crank. Tried to do the best my Brother and I could since it was right before a 1000 mile road trip she was taking. Was really ticked off at the sight of it, had to be from a previous mechanic screwing things up. Stayed for 6 more months...then came apart again doing even more damage to the crank. This time I gave Emily a call at CCR Engines (thanks again Emily) and she pointed me over to the guys at S-Wings stuff. They actually have a kit that is supposed to fix this for good, I installed it and it is still holding so far. Really an ingenious idea using roll pins in the timing gear to hold the pulley tension instead of putting all the pressure on the drift. Comes with a timing gear and pulley modified by them and a new drift key. You can contact S-Wings to get more information, pricing at (303) 777-8658 if your interested.

#4 cookie

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 01:00 PM

it would be good to file this where it can be found. Sounds like a clever fix.

#5 TheBigJ

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 01:05 PM

They actually have a kit that is supposed to fix this for good, I installed it and it is still holding so far. Really an ingenious idea using roll pins in the timing gear to hold the pulley tension instead of putting all the pressure on the drift. Comes with a timing gear and pulley modified by them and a new drift key. You can contact S-Wings to get more information, pricing at (303) 777-8658 if your interested.


That sounds like a hot tip. Let me get this straight, the pins are installed into the timing sprocket, parallel to the crank, and extending into the balancer/pulley assembly? Do you have to do any drilling, welding, tapping etc?

Thanks for the help guys, I am going to pull off the T-belt and sprocket now and see what the real extent of the damage is.

#6 DrKrazy

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 01:16 PM

That sounds like a hot tip. Let me get this straight, the pins are installed into the timing sprocket, parallel to the crank, and extending into the balancer/pulley assembly? Do you have to do any drilling, welding, tapping etc?

Thanks for the help guys, I am going to pull off the T-belt and sprocket now and see what the real extent of the damage is.


Exactly, the roll pins go into the crank pulley from the timing gear. So if I'm correct (not an engineer or anything) that takes all the tension off the woodruff/drift key, and all it's used for anymore is the intial line up before bolting it down. No drilling or anything...just bolt it on. That's the way they made the kit. Pretty sure he had told me though that's it a certain timing gear off of like 1-2 years of the EJ22 that he modifies, other won't work. Can't remember what I paid but it wasn't expensive considering you have to replace most of those parts anyways. The guys down there at S-Wings are great! The crank bolt is supposed to get tightened down to way more than what the FSM says. Do a search and you'll find that out, and that is usally what causes this problem from what I've read.

#7 cookie

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 01:24 PM

to the amount of work I went through to fix the Mercedes.

#8 TheBigJ

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 03:39 PM

I called to check price and availability. I didn't understand from your description that what they are selling is a balancer assembly that has the pins mounted in it which interface with the two holes in the sprocket. So I don't need to pull one of those from the yard.

Price is $175 but he has to order some parts and make them, so they are not currently available.

In the meantime I haven't been able to get the sprocket off of the crank. Any suggestions here? I already tapped the two holes and put some bolts in.

I would say that your estimation that the keyway is now only used for alignment and the load is transferred to the pins is correct. Depending on the tightness of the fit I would still think that some of the load is on the key but not very much, especially since the keyway is now garbage and can't really take any load. I hope those pins are hardened steel because there is a lot more torque out there!

#9 AlpineRaven

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Posted 27 December 2005 - 06:27 PM

S**t I didn't think it would make that kind of damage.. how would it caused it?
Cheers
AP

#10 TheBigJ

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 06:14 PM

Sorry to resurrect thread... maybe this update will help someone.

I finally ordered the kit and started installing it today :banana:

The kit is made from good quality used parts.

The gear and balancer assembly come fitted together with the roll pins, with the keyway fit into the notch at the back of the gear. You have to remove the key from the gear, and seperate the gear and balancer to perform the install.

The roll pins are 1" length and will slide further into the timing gear if you bump them (I was using a hammer to get the gear on the crank). They can be bumped back out to the correct insertion (1/2") after removing the gear if this happens. I recommend putting a socket longer than 1/2" around the center of the gear and tapping on that to prevent pushing the roll pins in any further.

I'm somewhat surpised the holes in the gear aren't just drilled to 1/2" depth to prevent this from happening. But I'm not complaining.

The holes in the balancer are drilled slightly larger than those in the timing gear. It is still a snug fit but can be seperated by hand, and the pins will remain in the timing gear.

Seems like a good fit with the timing gear, now to line up the belt, install the balancer and torque the bolt down properly! This car has been sitting 4 months!

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#11 4 arm boxer

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 01:34 AM

i am having a similar problem with my leg. 2.2 keyway.. the roll pin solutuon looks like a winner. so to remove the timing gear can u use a pulley puller?. now to find someone who has a drill press to drill out my pulley for the roll pins... thanks for the tip man!!:headbang:

#12 grossgary

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 07:05 AM

crank pulleys can be installed without pins or keyways. i'm sure this is evil talk, but i've done it. give the crank bolt as much torque as you can with a break bar, you won't strip the bolt unless it's already damaged.

i like some of these fixes, interesting!

#13 Monte

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 08:17 AM

crank pulleys can be installed without pins or keyways. i'm sure this is evil talk, but i've done it. give the crank bolt as much torque as you can with a break bar, you won't strip the bolt unless it's already damaged.

i like some of these fixes, interesting!


That IS evil talk, especially on an interference engine. :eek:

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#14 grossgary

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 05:57 AM

i agree it's less than desirable. he doesn't say what year EJ22 so it may not be interference. and if the crank pulley did spin off it shouldn't affect the timing belts. the drive belts yes, but not the timing belts. i've seen a few that have had this happen and they've never done anything to the timing belts and hence interference is a non-issue.




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