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locking rear diff ?


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25 replies to this topic

#1 zed wolf

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 06:29 PM

So, I am reading around about traction options for subaru differentials and stuff while I plott my own subaru build up, My question is has anyone looked into making something like a lockright locker or other comon automatic locker fit into and work in a subaru diff case?
I have never opened up a subaru diff to see what kind of room they have inside for "stuff" I should think though if you could get one to mount up inside the housing you could get someplace like currie to make some un-breakeable alloy stubbs to go along with them with the correct spline count for the locker on one end and subaru output splines on the other...
So, is this theoreticaly possible? mabey with a bit of machine work? or is this one of them no way in h*ll things?

#2 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 06:43 PM

You sure could. But then you'd be driving a $600 subaru with a $1800 rear diff in it.

-Brian

#3 Sweet82

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 06:47 PM

I'll cast one vote "no way in hell"

My advice would be three words

Weld it !
(I guess it's really two words and an exclamation point):rolleyes:

Either way my advice is the same.
(or is it Ither way):rolleyes:

Whatever? I'm leaving now!:burnout:

#4 scrap487

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 06:55 PM

um... search! its been discussed alot

well expensive or a whole crap load of work or both. personally if a LSD doesnt get you where you need to go, I'd convert to a solid rear end after doing a tcase conversion and get some better gearing and end up with something alot cheaper and easier to find a locker for...

either way like that guy said, you're gonna be driving a subaru worth $300 w/ $2000+ worth in modifications.

#5 zed wolf

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 07:18 PM

Well, I am no stranger to welded diffs, I have a welded front in my jeep and love the simplicity and awesome traction of it but I'm not too excited about removing axles to drive on road. mabey if who'zims? nissan front hub thingey works out ok I will go that route.
Also, is the problem with a welded rear on road just tire wear or are you likely to break things?

#6 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 07:26 PM

Depends on how good your welding is. I broke my welded diff off-road and it was just my welds giving way. No CV damage. But there are plenty of others here who have sheered off axle stubs and snapped axle shafts.

-Brian

#7 torxxx

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Posted 28 December 2005 - 11:45 PM

LSD is all you should need. If you can't get there with LSD, learn how to drive.

#8 Numbchux

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 02:06 AM

LSD is all you should need. If you can't get there with LSD, learn how to drive.


sorry...but that's a little off....for example, there's a trail I've been down a couple times here, that's an ATV trail, with swamp on either side, and big gnolls. my right rear tire get's about 3-4 FEET off the ground, and I'm still going up hill, there is no way you could get over it with an open rear end, period. maybe with some JATO packs you could just jump it, but a welded rear would make it a cakewalk.

#9 zed wolf

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 03:42 AM

Thanks Numbchux, I really am a goor driver with both open diffs and lockers.
In situations where you have a tire off the ground you are way right, a lsd isnt any help. And with the limited suspension travel subarus have it is fairly comon to have at least one tire off the ground.Thats why I would like a locker.

#10 Rooinater

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 04:30 AM

weld it! that's the only real "locker" for a subaru. we've tried for years to get the support for a company to build lockers for our diffs. with no real luck. i know a few companies said they would. but we needed a huge quanities to be bought up front before they would start. very few of us were willing to throw down 600 dollars per locker for the first round. i'm sure they would have gotten a lot cheaper after the initial set and development costs. i'd still love to get an aussie or lock rite for the subaru diffs.


if you can pull the support together to get the initial amount of lockers needed. i'll throw down for 1 or 2 of them for little roo. there is a lot higher backing for offroading subaru's now, then there was 4 or more years ago. we were laughed at back in the day. but obviously they've been proven to be a good medium rated trail rig. the other brick wall you will run into, is that people are cheap, and that's why a lot of them wheel subaru's... cheaper the better in a lot of eyes.

but i encourage you to setup a new post asking who is willing to and will buy lockers if we get a company to make them. the weak link will be the cv's and the axle stubs. i've broken an axle stub on the lsd, i've sheared an axle shaft on the lincoln locker, and broke the welds the next time i jammed the wheel. it's my fault, in the end wheel got jammed into the fender. under throttle, in the sand. need to make them bigger after i got the new set of 31's with full tread.

i may be backing up from the subaru's a little. but i'll fully support a locker being made. way more dependable then a lincoln locker.

i'd suggest aussie lockers, they are supposed to be the best of the lunch box lockers.
www.offroadlockers.com

hit them and lock rite up when you get a signifigant amount of people.

Semper Fidelis,
Jared

#11 zed wolf

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Posted 29 December 2005 - 02:04 PM

well, thats actualy encouraging Rooinater, I am not sure I want to start a revoloution like that though, mabey, I will look into though.
So, since it seems unlikley to get a real locker in a subaru diff anytime soon......
How about the best alternative for a limited slip. That would be a gleason - torsen type. I have seen them in action in scouts before. They are as good as a locker untill one wheel is off the ground then they open back up but a bit of break presure can lock it back up again. From the reasearch I have done they can be found for a subaru R-160 housing and also nissan R-180 housings. Unfortunatly though due to the design of them they do tend to cost alot.

#12 stinky

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 05:52 AM

At one stage someone did make Detroit style lockers for the subarus. There's a few floating around here in Aussie land. They weren't cheap ( > $1000AU ) and subaru owners don't like to spend money on their cars. It's certainly doable but would definately require a group buy to convince somebody to make some.

#13 Sweet82

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 11:10 AM

At one stage someone did make Detroit style lockers for the subarus. There's a few floating around here in Aussie land. They weren't cheap ( > $1000AU ) and subaru owners don't like to spend money on their cars. It's certainly doable but would definately require a group buy to convince somebody to make some.


Humm....

I wonder how tough getting one would be and then duplicating it?

If nobody makes them, would anyone care if it was duplicated...:rolleyes:

I wish I had a machine shop!

#14 Mike W

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 08:39 PM

Over on the Offroad Subaru forum, they're talking about Detroit TrueTrac diffs. Need to get 50 orders at $1000 a pop.
Given that problem of stubs shearing off on R160s, I was toying with the idea of going big on my next project if it ever happens. Was gonna use R200 diffs with ARBs if I won the lottery or maybe spool for ghettofab. Thinking Nissan hubs and axles to go with 'em. I'd try to have the axle or outer stub be the sacrificial "fuse" that pops rather than the diff or driveline.
Or howsabout that aluminum housing Dana, cheap lockers and custom axles?
Do those long travel porsche axles mate up with any locking Audi diffs?

#15 Rooinater

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 08:52 PM

there's no way i'd put a true trac in my car. from my understanding they aren't much better then the lsd. might as well weld her up. and deal with it.


the main lunch box lockers they should be looking into are.

aussie locker

lock rite

detroit ez-locker

and i think there is one more...

and for the price of a 1000 dollars... i could, swap a yota axle with an arb onto the car. or fab a triangulated 4 linked toy axle with a detroit or aussie locker... why bother, you can get real beef under the rear?

#16 monstaru

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 09:13 PM

since finding a diff lock has proved to be somewhat impossible i have been scheming about aan axle lock.using only one manufacturede piece that would be stronger than the axles and stubs ,so breakage is still in it's place.everyone is trying to make it too difficult i feel.don't get me wrong , i am not an engineer , but i do have an understanding of mechanics and if it stays simple murphy has less to put in your face.obviously things are needing to be tested, but i think it is promising.

#17 zed wolf

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 03:16 AM

I think I am most in favour of modifing an ausie or lockright to work in a subaru or nissan carrier.
While I have never had either one apart and in my hands it seems like it should be doable.
And on that note..do subaru front diffs use the same type of setup as the back as far as spiders in a carrier?

#18 NoahDL88

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Posted 02 January 2006 - 03:06 AM

The front carrier is different, it has either more or less bolt holes that hold the ring to the kernel.

I've been wheeling with an open for quite some time, got a LSD recently, and havn't really had much time to see if i like it.

About a month ago i got a Lincoln locker from Jerry, gonna put that one in next week. Seems to me that pulling an axle is worth it if i get 2.5 wheel drive instead of 2

And as long as i can change it faster than Tex, i'll be good to go.

#19 Rooinater

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Posted 03 January 2006 - 05:14 AM

yeah the front is definately differant. the only reason i have a front lsd is that i have a second transfercase which you put another rearend up front under your tranny. so you use all the rearend parts up front and don't use the front half of the tranny. the divorced transfercase mod is the best thing you can do to your subaru. but most people don't go extreme enough to need it. it also makes putting a solid axle in the back a lot easier.

#20 Andyjo

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 08:38 PM

If you could figure out how to get an ARB air locker in there.. and you have an air suspension, you could try to tap into that system.. .just an idea...

#21 FlyB0y

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 11:10 PM

so where do Phantom Lockers fit in this mix? My understanding is that it acts as a LSD untill one wheel starts spinning and then the 2 blocks on the shaft (I have no idea of the proper terms for all the internals of a diff please bear with me :o )between the spider gears are forced into said gears effectivly locking ... but I really don't know anything about this stuff at all, just trying to learn :drunk:

#22 ballitch

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Posted 08 January 2006 - 11:44 PM

what about a helical rear diff locker/LSD. like on the STI's, when wheel slip happens, it forces the helical gears together and it tightens up and allows not too much slipping. just a thought.


~Josh~

#23 zed wolf

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 12:05 AM

I have no idea on the phantom thing, never herd of one of them before.
My current dirrection of thought on a locker though is to swap out the rear center section for somthing else that is commonly available, cheap, and has lockers available for it.
So far I am looking into a ford 8.8" front center section from an exploder, or the rear center from an independant rear toyota celica they to fit the above criteria fairly well.
I need to look more into the stub shaft issue though, the fords come stock with a stub shaft with a u-joint yolk. Would also need to fab up a mounting plate, that should be no big deal.
The only other problem I see so far would be the overall width, from the ends of the stubs being too wide. might need to look into adding a little width to the rear track to be able to use stock subaru axles.
Might look into using a diferent cv axel too...

#24 FlyB0y

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 12:08 AM

I have no idea on the phantom thing, never herd of one of them before.
My current dirrection of thought on a locker though is to swap out the rear center section for somthing else that is commonly available, cheap, and has lockers available for it.
So far I am looking into a ford 8.8" front center section from an exploder, or the rear center from an independant rear toyota celica they to fit the above criteria fairly well.
I need to look more into the stub shaft issue though, the fords come stock with a stub shaft with a u-joint yolk. Would also need to fab up a mounting plate, that should be no big deal.
The only other problem I see so far would be the overall width, from the ends of the stubs being too wide. might need to look into adding a little width to the rear track to be able to use stock subaru axles.
Might look into using a diferent cv axel too...


I said it wrong actually, it's called a Phantom Grip, and according to the site it's a LSD that locks under hard accelleration ... look here http://www.phantomgr...ow_it_works.htm

#25 monstaru

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Posted 09 January 2006 - 12:31 AM

better link

http://www.phantomgr...php?make=Subaru




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