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1987 AMC Eagle vs 1978 Subaru Brat


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22 replies to this topic

#1 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 03:24 PM

Ok people, this years cuesta college challenge is on!! After immense searching, my friend and I found a 1987 Eagle for sale in Nevada for $500... Yesterday Him and I set out with a car trailer at about 3pm from Atascadero, California. We arrived in the Nevada location at 10:30PM. We had to then pull out a spare motor from another eagle (in the middle of the freezing night mind you) Because the one in the eagle he bought was bad (it was all part of the deal). After getting the engine and loading the Wagon onto the carhauler. We headed off at 1:30AM towards reno, accross 80, down to king city, and then Atascadero again. How long was the trip??? 1000 miles!! accomplished including pulling the engine, in only 19 hours.

OK, now to get to the point. My friend Sam has an eagle now. I have my Brat. The semester is starting next week

THE CHALLENGE:
Race prep both vehicles with 3 inch body lifts, engine rebuilds/modifications. Roll cages to spec. Race seats, rage cages, offroad lights.. etc.. (basically prep the vehicles to run Stock Mini Class in Score International for the BAJA 1000!!!!!)
I will be using my ER27 MPFI motor with a 4 speed D/R transmission in the brat
He will be using the 4.2 litre inline six cyl with probably a torqueflight tranny to back it up, w/ on demand 4wd of course.

THE QUESTION:
who do you put your bets on for completing the race in the 30 hour time limit alotted? Comments?

#2 Jerry DeMoss

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 03:39 PM

I put my bet on the brat!For one those brats are tough.Secondly I hate those eagles.Everyone I have helped work on is a pile.Please post some pics if you can.Go brat go!

#3 SuBrat84

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 04:09 PM

I'm going to put my money down on the brat. Provided the tranny holds up. Have you considering using a 5spd Fulltime4wd w/ dual range?

#4 Jibs

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 04:22 PM

Wait Wait wait. You're trying to get from where to where? AND you're trying to fit an er27 into a 78 Brat? Hows that gonna work? AND you didn't stop in reno to say Hi?:lol: By the way I'm all for the Brat.:)

#5 scrap487

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 07:02 PM

um... brat... for sure

btw, I believe the 4spd d/r tranny is stronger and has a better low range than the 5spd? am I correct?

#6 FlyB0y

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 07:18 PM

Just one question ... why a gen 1 brat instead of a gen 2? and I'm gonna have to see the pics of this beast!! sounds way kewl :headbang: oh and my money would be on the brat! :cool:

#7 chef_tim

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 07:26 PM

Okay, I'm going to go against the flow. I'm on the AMC for this, but just for one reason, reliability. With the type of mods you are going to do to the Brat I just don't think it will be as reliable. Use an EJxx in a gen 2 Brat and I'm back in for the Brat.

#8 P K

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 07:55 PM

Stock Mini - Check the SCORE rulebook. IIRC - the engine must have been offered by the manufacturer for that year of the vehicle... I think.

You can cross model lines, but not advanced years. So you can put an EA82T in a Brat since it was offered in Subaru line during the same years. But an ER27 wasn't offered until 1988, so you could put it in a 1988 Brat (no US versions) but I don't think you can in a 1987 or earlier Brat.

I may be full of it, so someone correct me or spend the $20 on the SCORE rulebook for sure. r/ PK

#9 FirstSubaruGLwagon

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Posted 10 January 2006 - 08:16 PM

Eagles rock,,, however, having observed them in action,,, there a bit of a suspension issue,, ive seen em bust shocks and roll ;)


However my lifted subee with the big tires kinda makes me feel like i am going to break something on the next pothole i hit.:rolleyes:

would definatly stick with a light tire and rim for the subee, as well. if your going baja.

#10 Zefy

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 12:06 AM

oh man mike this is going to be awesome!

deffinatly cheering the brat on!!!

that er27 is gonna be a big bite for the 4spd! its gonna be sweet... don't go to big on the tires i'd say! smaller tires = happier axles!

we need pics!

and are you doing this to the 78 from the suby show? lol... you got a head start! you got the good struts in there!:-p

#11 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 01:52 PM

Score international Rule book says:

Any engine can be used provided is was produces and delivered by the manufacturer provided it is 4.3L & 6 cyl or less... (it does not say anything about the year)

Transmission must be one listed and offered for that vehicle. (1981 they offered the d/r 4sp 4wd...)

I am using my gen 1 brat cause I HAVE a gen 1 brat. (I think it adds to the challenge)

Now I know we're on a subaru forum here, and granted I am VERY loyal to subaru, but I think you guys need to give the AMC some credit. Him and I have gone over this thing and its BUILT LIKE A TANK. unreliability was in their attemt at a POS computer controlled carburetor. The 258 it comes with is only like 110 HP stock, but its got some ungodly amount of Torque. For the race, any carburetor may be used (unfortunately the engine never came with fuel injection as far as I know, maybe in later model jeeps?) provided you have as many venturis as cylinders or less. The Torqueflight 727 it uses is a solid tranny and we will rebuild one for the race (though chryslers like to shed metal).

Keep in mind suspension and steering components must remain stock design, and the AMC has longarm short arm, and leaf springs in the back. I believe it is allowed for me to beef up my control arms and strut rods. Id say the one weakness that the AMC has is the length of that driver side CV joint.

Just some more thoughts for ya'll

-Mike

JB I would have totally stopped by, and same for you Brian, but we were in the middle of the night/morning, and also we were on a time crunch. we had to be in King City at 8:00AM so Sam could make some meeting.. We arrived at 8:01AM (only to find out the meeting didnt start till 9:banghead: )

#12 P K

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 02:05 PM

Score international Rule book says:

Any engine can be used provided is was produces and delivered by the manufacturer provided it is 4.3L & 6 cyl or less... (it does not say anything about the year)

Excellent.

Regarding the 258, there is a lot of aftermarket support, including an Offy dual port manifold and Holley set-up. r/ PK

#13 84gl

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 02:20 PM

the brat all the way

#14 Qman

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 02:51 PM

All I need to say is make sure you have a good support crew and bring spares. The BAJA is no joke. I am not sure either will finish but I wish you good luck to complete it.

#15 BlueRidgeSE

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 03:13 PM

Never run a Brat before but spent some time behind the wheel of an Eagle and it was a tough car. It probably wouldn't handle like the Sube though.

#16 Jibs

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 03:24 PM


JB I would have totally stopped by, and same for you Brian, but we were in the middle of the night/morning, and also we were on a time crunch. we had to be in King City at 8:00AM so Sam could make some meeting.. We arrived at 8:01AM (only to find out the meeting didnt start till 9:banghead: )


No worries dude I was playin. It seemed like you had a lot to do that weekend so it's understandable not to drop by. This project of yours sounds way cool, I'm routing for both you guys. Have fun with the build up, lets see some pics! Keep up the good work.

#17 Free Range

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 03:35 PM

gonna go with the chef on this one, you go with that many mods on the brat and I'll bet on the AMC, I want to see the brat do it, but your putting a boat anchor up front, so you better ballast the rear, not to mention the steering knuckle on that 1600 bellypan won't even clear an ea81's valvecovers, let alone that six, so find an '80 or 81 brat with the ea81 and get the belly pan. you'll need to mod a ton o' stuff, fittment of the er27 with a 3" body lift is going to involve A LOT of frame rail adjustment, put the radiator in the rear, not to mention the lift blocks in the rear end will be really cool with that dual independent torsion tube setup...you got the gears turning in my head, I wish I could help, but anywho good luck.

#18 Caboobaroo

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 04:03 PM

first question, why not stick with the 4 cylinder? Way easier to use then the ER27 and weight is also an issue. You're not going to find something that bolts into the front end that will support the weight of it. Second, the 4-speed won't handle the power (ask achemities) and third, there's so much structural work that has to be done to the body of the Brat since its a unibody vs. the Eagles frame. Not worth it to drop that engine in that bodystyle of Brat. I would go for an EA81 thats built, running a hundred and a half, maybe more horses cause the Brat is light enough that it'll fly. Trust me on this one, I had a 1600 JDM engine in my '78 and that thing moved!

#19 Jerry DeMoss

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Posted 11 January 2006 - 04:15 PM

I second that on using a ea81.Very tough.And that is what you will need to keep going.I think that the ea81 will make plenty of power for the brat.Also when you are flying though the air or through a woooppp section you will need to be well balanced.

#20 zed wolf

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 01:25 AM

Well, I have to go with the Eagle.
I have driven several subarus, blown about 6 sub motors in less then 4 years.
I have also driven several jeeps with the 258 6 including the cj5 I have now, I beat the piss out of it regularly and have never had any serious motor problems and it has plenty of power to go fast.

#21 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 14 January 2006 - 12:02 AM

Ok so we got the bad Eagle engine out, and all I have to say is that forkin s*&T is hacked in there from the factory! I LOVE MY SUBARU! We got a Jeep/Renault Engine, using a GM Delco alternator, and a GM power steering pump, a Ford Starter, a Chrysler torqueflight 727 transmission, with a dana 44 front differential BOLTED TO THE ENGINE. What kind of unholy demon posessed engineers put this thing together?? (well they did engineer the Gremlin I guess) The funny part is that you cant take off the exhaust pipe without taking the driver side engine mount off, and the driver side engine mount is also holding up the differential. In order to disconnect the differential, you need to take the intake manifold off cause its the only way to get to one of the bolts.

Well anyway, the work is underway. Once I get the engine back in my 77 wagon (blown head gasket). I am gonna start on my 3 inch lift for my brat, and maybe some of the body work.

-Mike

#22 zed wolf

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Posted 15 January 2006 - 02:55 AM

Heh, arent AMC's cool? I know how ya feel though, they do use an interesting mix of parts. However, after ya get it back together and running again it should run forever and have un-holy amounts of torque.

#23 RenaissanceMan

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Posted 15 January 2006 - 07:59 PM

A couple of corrections to make now that we have the chiltons for it. It uses a dana 30 front end, the transmission is a Torqueflight 998 (with lockup torque convertor).. and it uses a New Process 128 viscous AWD transfer case. It turns out the Gearbox is from an early 80's chevrolet S10, and the rear brakes are from a 60's-mid 70's E100. What other things will I find?

-Mike




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