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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Ok BOYS - I am ready to put in the Engine Block Seal.


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29 replies to this topic

#1 LuckyPistol

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 03:28 PM

OK, I have K&W Block Seal in my hands.

This morning, went out, took the radiator cap off car. Hood opened, I could see the radiator mouth. I had plenty of 50/50 in it. I cranked it up. Antifreeze spuges up out of radiator. I juice the motor each time, and more Antifreeze shouts out of the top.

I get out to inspect, I see exaust fumes in the radiator. I figure it is definetly a crack head/leak somewhere.

Well, if you think I am spending $400 - $1300 to get it fixed, juu crazy !! LOL!:-p

It was suggested on one of my other posts, that K&W makes a great liquid head gasket. And he had used it on numerous Subies for the blown head gaskets, leaks, etc... with great results.

Even the guy at Auto-Zone said he had used it on a numbeer of vehicles with great success.

SO, I just wanted to ask everyone who has USED this stuff if they had good results too.

And how long do you think it will last?

I will follow the directions to a "T" , I know it's important.

Please chime in !!!!!!! I am ready to do this in the next few hours !!

BTW- I did a search and found nothing.!!

#2 LuckyPistol

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 03:41 PM

I did find this Post....

http://www.ultimates...ight=Block seal

If you replied to it, I read it.

Also, I would like to know who HAS used it, and if it Helped. thanks.

#3 fj401968

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 04:29 PM

The premium block sealer (glass particle type) will likely not get you very far down the road with your blown HG.

As an aside, there is some really bad press (from some USMB members) (reference the thread below) on Bars Leaks for minor cooling system leaks.

I've personally not had a bad experience with it (the pelletized type) and I've used it quite a bit in the past on older farm vehicles as well as on my '87 GL wagon. I've never had it plug up a heater core and I've had good luck with it stopping minor leaks.

It should also be noted:

the following OEM's install Bar's Leaks in radiators at their factories:

Allis Chalmers (AGCO)
AM General (Hummer, etc.)
Carrier Transicold
Caterpillar (Canada and USA)
Cloverland (engine rebuilder)
Daimler-Chrysler (US, Canada, and International)
Engine Rebuilders (Canada)
Ford Motor Company (US, Canada, and International)
General Motors Corp. (US, Canada, and International)
Gopher Motors (engine rebuilder)
Isuzu (international)
Jaguar (international)
Komatsu (heavy duty)
Marshall (engine rebuilder)
Mitsubishi (international)
Navistar (International Harvester)
RB&W Logistics (industrial)
Subaru (international)



Tracy


I did find this Post....

http://www.ultimates...ight=Block seal

If you replied to it, I read it.

Also, I would like to know who HAS used it, and if it Helped. thanks.



#4 Steven Romero

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 04:36 PM

I would be afraid to put that mess in my engine. You just have to wonder what else it is sealing along with the leaks.

Why don't you just have a shop do a leak-down test to find out specifically what the problem is, and then go from there...

If the heads are cracked you can make a judgement call as heads are probably not cheap or easy to find, and then there's the labor. If it's just the gaskets, then the procedure to replace them seems straightforward - I haven't done it, but it can't be that hard. Besides, just think about how much you would learn...

Does the oil look like it has water in it?

#5 85Sub4WD

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 05:55 PM

sorry fj401968, but I still disgree with it being proper to use such a sealent

I have personally seen the results of various stopleaks being added to various radiators - none of the different types have performed well at all - in the best case scenario, they did nothing, and in the worst, they plugged EVERYTHING UP - I also have questions about some of the manufacturers on your list - I KNOW that Subaru did NOT use the bar's leaks when these engines were built originally, and so adding them is not an adviseable thing to do - I would also like to see where you got your list of manufacturers, and the precise useage of the sealent - treating a radiator with the additive is a very different thing than adding it to the system after the fact

I have a close friend who has been in various roles in the auto industry as a whole for over 50 years - from the design and spec side, as well as the hands-on side, for most of the larger automotive companies in various components - his comment on stopleaks as a whole is that they are a stop-gap for a problem that should be properly addressed

Furthermore, any of the stopleak additives if added in sufficent quantities will impede the natural lubrication of the water pump, and cause failure - that is a simple, well recorded fact

to answer the original question,
NO BLOCKSEALER/STOPLEAK WILL FIX HEADGASKETS - PERIOD
you have ~130 psi pressure against the head gasket just when the engine is turning over, and many times more when it is actually running - there is no sealer that can solve a headgasket break into a compustion chamber for any length of time - it will merely aggrivate the situation, and leave you stranded somewhere - I have actually been before there with our Ford Aerostar - it did not even last the 10 miles to the nearest garage for the engine overhaul

#6 Holmes

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 06:23 PM

I was thinking that it might be a good idea to bypass the bypass
hoses so none of that sealer messes up your heater core. I was
going to do it before I decided to go the rebuilt route. I have a
sneaking suspicion that the guy I bought my car from used some
sealer on it. If he did, it lasted almost 2 years.

#7 fj401968

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 06:35 PM

sorry fj401968, but I still disgree with it being proper to use such a sealent

I have personally seen the results of various stopleaks being added to various radiators - none of the different types have performed well at all - in the best case scenario, they did nothing, and in the worst, they plugged EVERYTHING UP - I also have questions about some of the manufacturers on your list - I KNOW that Subaru did NOT use the bar's leaks when these engines were built originally, and so adding them is not an adviseable thing to do - I would also like to see where you got your list of manufacturers, and the precise useage of the sealent - treating a radiator with the additive is a very different thing than adding it to the system after the fact
....<snip>.....l


I got my information off the Internet so it must be true ;).

http://www.quasimoto.../about_bar1.htm

Tracy

#8 Subarian

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 06:46 PM

Well, if Bob says it, it must be so. I checked Bars Leaks' website, and they don't make any claim that ANY manufacturers use their products. The only thing they said about manufacturers refers to the big 3 (GM, Ford, Chrysler) and goes like this:

5. Will Bar’s Leaks plug my heater core?
No, the tiny particles will pass through a 24-gauge mesh screen which is the spec for the BIG 3 car/truck manufacturers. They say that any product installed in the cooling system must pass through this screen. Bar’s Leaks is the only stop leak to pass this test and to be approved by the vehicle manufacturers.

Being approved by a manufacturer and being used by a manufacturer are very different things. I still wouldn't use it, except maybe in an emergency far from home.

#9 fj401968

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 06:51 PM

I got my information off the Internet so it must be true ;).

http://www.quasimoto.../about_bar1.htm

Tracy


BTW, I've not tried the aluminum flakes type of stop leak. I've only used the rhizex pellet type (and only on my Subaru... I've never poured anything but distilled water and antifreeze in the radiator of my precious FJ40 Landcruiser;))

Lately the water pump on my Dodge Decrepid has been howling a bit. I think I'll dump some in that beast.

Here's an interesting link from Bar's website.

http://www.barsleaks.../how2works.html

Read the demonstration. If it is true, I don't see how Bar's leaks would clog up a cooling system.

I can see how people would be leery though. Like I said, I've never poured any such stuff in my Cruiser. Several years ago, I had a leaky radiator in it and I popped the cash for a new radiator.

While I like Subarus (I'm on my fourth one), I'm not quite as dedicated to my $700 Sooby as I am my vintage Landcruiser. I just want it to keep getting me to and from work until I can save enough cash for a Toyota Tacoma.

Tracy

#10 fj401968

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 07:06 PM

Well, if Bob says it, it must be so.


LOL!!:)

Sorry to be so blasphemous in putting Bar's in my Sooby... Do I dare say I don't pop the money for a WIX or Purolator filter on my Soob either? :)

At any rate, back to the original issue, I agree, no pour-in solution will work for a blown HG/cracked head.

That said, if the radiator on a tired old Sooby has a small leak in it, I heartily recommend pouring in some Bar's Leaks (pellets) and not losing any sleep.

Tracy

#11 Dylan86GL10

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 07:08 PM

...but didn't McGyver use an egg in episode #67?

#12 Subarian

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 07:11 PM

I think it has to be a dodo egg.

#13 LuckyPistol

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 08:47 PM

What's so heart breaking is, I dumped so much $$$ into this thing in the past 4 months. And I was reflecting on the time that my car overheated, and I thought that it had survived it. :-\
And it was all over a .05 plastic plug that blew out the side of the radiator.:horse:

But now that i remember, it has been over-heating for a few months now.

I am 99.9% sure its a cracked head/blown gasket. It is a small leak right now. Due to not alot of smoke, oil in coolant, etc... So, I am going to use this stuff.

I HATE the idea of doing this to my engine, but I just cant take another hit $$ wise.

I doubt it will work due to antifreeze PROBABLY still in the block somehow, even though I have flushed and re-filled twice. I will follow the directions perfectly and let everyone know.


Well, tomorrow , I might ask this mechanic (a friend of a friend) if i were to help him, maybe I could do this cheaper. Somehow , I doubt it. If i had a place to do it, I would give it a go. I love digging into engines. it's putting them back that's the problem. :D

Thanks so far for ALL the suggestions !!!!!!!

#14 Monte

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 10:26 PM

The thing with Bars Leaks and stuff like it is that it is stopping the leak from the higher pressure side of the leak. Stopping a headgasket leak is trying to stop the leak from the wrong side, the lower pressure side of the leak. The pressure from the combustion chamber is just going to keep blowing the stop leak stuff back into the coolant passage. :(

Good luck whatever you do,
Monte

#15 LuckyPistol

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 10:10 AM

Well,

I have re-flushed and re-flushed, and re-flushed. It only took about 45 minutes to re-flush it 3 times, no big hassle.

I just want to make sure that ALL anti-freeze is out of the system. The K&W Block seal will not work if it mixes with it, so I am making sure.

Monte - don't know your logic there, I figure air/fluids pass through the least resistance, which this product will be passing through , filling up the gap/crack over each revolution of the motor. (That;s what the bottle says anyway:brow: ).

So, the only $ I have spent so far is :
Prestone super flush - $4.95 (or something close to that).
K&W Block Seal - $7.99 - Autozone
Antifreeze - $8.99 - Peak antifreeze

I put in the flush, ran the car for 10-20 minutes, even ran to the store in it. Came back drained it out. (let it cool down first):-p
Filled with hose water. I also ran the hose in there without the drain plug for about 4 minutes to make sure it ran clear water.
Replaced drain plug, filled with hose water. Let car run idled for about 5 minutes. Let cool down.
Drained radiator again. Replaced plug, filled with hose water. Ran for 5 more minutes. Let cool down. And drain again.

Now, I am ready to put in the Block Sealer. (hopefully all the antifreeze is out).:D

Now, that may seem like alot, but not really. The slowest part is waiting the 10 -15 minutes to let it cool down, LOL!

But I am at the house and do other things around the house while I wait, so no biggie.
Now, I am also going to undo my 2 hoses going to my heater core, and garden hose those one final time before I add KW -
(KW is what I will use from now on instead of typing out block seal).

That will only take a few minutes, As I have done this before , so my hoses will slid off pretty easy this time.

So here are my symptoms, And I will post here my ONGOING results from this "miracle in a bottle".

1) I have NO heat. - sometimes lukewarm, going to cold.
2) Taking off radiator cap, and pressing gas, Antifreeze shoots up 4 inches out of mouth.
3) Inspecting radiator, I see exaust fumes in there.
4) While idle, everything appears fine, no -overheating, but once I drive, Motor creates pressure, And I guess the crack/leak opens up, resulting in Overheat, pushing air into my cooling system, which pushes antifreeze into my overfull tank, making it bubble. This bubbling can be confused as boiling, but it isnt hot, is just air passing through.

I hope this stuff takes care of all this. I know someone might say this will plug the heater core, it may, I don't care about heat right now. Spring is almost here. But I have a feeling, I will get heat. (just a hope).

So, is everyone ready for this? I will be adding KW within the 1-2 hour, I will need to idle the car for 20 minutes. After that, drain, flush with water, and let it sit for 24-36 hours.

Then I will probably flush with hose water again. Then fill her with 50/50 and take her for a ride.

WISH ME LUCK PLEASE.!!! :)

#16 fj401968

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 11:42 AM

...<snip>...

WISH ME LUCK PLEASE.!!! :)



You said yourself, your getting exhaust in your coolant. That means the leak is moving the wrong direction for a 'fix in a bottle' to work. If you were getting coolant in your exhaust, there might be a prayer for a short lived fix.

At this point the car is worth about $50. That means you have nothing to lose if you pull the plugs, run a compression check, figure out which side is bad, pull the head and see if you have a cracked/warped head or if it is just a blown head gasket. It isn't really all that hard to change and like I said, you have nothing to lose. The car isn't usable and it isn't worth anything in its current state.

You said you don't have a place to work... get creative. I feel lucky to have a warm garage to work in now, but 15 years ago, when I was in college, I rebuilt the top end of my Landcruiser in the parking lot of my apartment complex after I lost a piston. Another time (after our apartment complex made a rule that we couldn't do major mechanical repairs there), I found an older mechanic, nearing retirement who let me rent some shop space to replace the shackle bushings, shocks and do some exhaust work on my Landcruiser. My wife brought him cookies several times while I was working on my cruiser and he went easy on me and even helped me a bit on his time.

Tracy

#17 LuckyPistol

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 12:23 PM

WTF????????

"You said yourself, your getting exhaust in your coolant. That means the leak is moving the wrong direction for a 'fix in a bottle' to work. If you were getting coolant in your exhaust, there might be a prayer for a short lived fix."

That makes sense.........$^$^^%$#!!!!


IS This true? So, why is it blowing the wrong way? Dammit!!!
Is it a blown head? cracked? WTF?? :banghead:

And true, It only smokes (white) when I start it, then goes away. So, given the symptoms, where is this leak? I can put JB weld on it.

I was just about to go out and put in the KW , and just came to check here first, thanks!!!!!

#18 fj401968

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 02:05 PM

WTF????????

"You said yourself, your getting exhaust in your coolant. That means the leak is moving the wrong direction for a 'fix in a bottle' to work. If you were getting coolant in your exhaust, there might be a prayer for a short lived fix."

That makes sense.........#$%$%^$!!!!


IS This true? So, why is it blowing the wrong way? Dammit!!!
Is it a blown head? cracked? WTF?? :banghead:

And true, It only smokes (white) when I start it, then goes away. So, given the symptoms, where is this leak? I can put JB weld on it.

I was just about to go out and put in the KW , and just came to check here first, thanks!!!!!


The idea is, the KW will try to squeeze through a leaking area and it will build up until the leak has been dammed off. How can this happen if pressure from the combustion process is pushing exhaust gases from the combustion chamber into the water jacket through a compromised head gasket or worse a crack in the head?

Even if the circumstances are such that some coolant does pass from the water jacket into the combustion chamber it is likely that the flow of exhaust gases back the other direction would push out the repair faster than it could build up to dam off the leak.

The bottom line is, your car over heated and the aluminum head(s) took a hit. These cars are built for longevity but they can't take the heat.

I can sympathize. My '90 Legacy experienced a sticky thermostat one summer day during a trip to the local foot hills for a pic-nic with my folks. I let the car drive a bit too far with the temp a bit too high... nothing major at that point... likely a blown HG is all. Since the transmission was starting to get 'clunky' and the AWD had gotten sloppy... and the car had some dents and a leaky moon roof, I just decided to keep driving it and stop dumping money into the car. I'd gotten over 100,000 miles out of her and I didn't pay a lot for the car. I drove it for another 5-6 mos. and eventually just let her 'melt down'. The car is out behind my garden shed. I'm going to pull the alloy wheels, new rubber, new alternator/battery and donate it to the local fire department to practice vehicle extractions with their 'jaws of life'. In hind sight, I wish I'd not ran the car into the ground. Even with 200,000 miles the engine still had a lot of life left in it. Oh, well.

If I were you, I'd quit pricking around with the block sealer and pull the head(s). Like I said, at this point you've nothing to lose.

Tracy

#19 LuckyPistol

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 04:19 PM

UPDATE - UPDATE.

So,
I mixed the KW with 3 quarts of hot water. (making about a gallon of mixture)
I garden hosed my heater core hoses, all is ready to go.

I pour about less than HALF a gallon into my radiator. It wont take anymore.
I start the car immediatly and intend on having it idle for 30 minutes like the directions ask.
I then notice, WTF????

The radiator is only taking half of gallon? That doesnt sound right. So, while my car is idling with this snakeoil, I call the manufacturer of the rad (CSF).

I didn't notice with all my flush , how much water was going in. (remember, it was the garden hose). But in my others cars, usually gallon and a half or so it seemed.

Well the rep says "Hmmmm, that doesn't sound right". He says it's my thermostat sticking, backing the fluid up in my overfill !!!! WTF???

So, I thank him, run out to the car, switch it off. I wait 10 minutes to cool down, and strat flushing out the snakeoil like crazy. It really isnt bad looking , just a reddish watery type liquid, nothing thick,

So, the car idled about 8 -10 minutes with thisa stuff in it. I believe I got it all out.

Soooooo, I then drain, flush with water. I remove the thermostat. It looks to be like the old one I had. And then a funny thing hits me. I remember my car would get real hot, but then my temp would go back down to normal, and be fine.

Must be this thermostat, that finally seized shut. $%$!! I hope this car pulls through. So, I just thought I could tighten the Thermo housing back down (without a gasket) just to make it the Parts store for a new thermo.

Well, you know what happened don't you , LOL Yep, water squirted right out of the gap. So, I turned it off, and someone is on there way to take me.

I Hope to Hell this is it. I want to bang my head on the wall , since I almost changed it anyway to see if it was it. Well, I will keep you updated.
I will install today and report back.

fj401 - Thanks for your help and stories. I am going to bring this $50 beast back to a $1000 CAR!!!

#20 LuckyPistol

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 05:30 PM

NEW Thermostat installed and ready.!!!! just gotta wait to dry.

I ALMOST did not put one in, just to see if it would overheat.

If this doesnt fix it, I am pushing this thing of a cliff, Or someone here can buy it at the highest bid. Starting at $50.

Body is rust free, interior brand new looking., new tires,
WAIT, before I get into all that, let me see if this works.

#21 LuckyPistol

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 05:42 PM

OHHHHHHH,
Jesus H. CHRIST !!!!!!!!

I just boiled the old thermostat to see if it was opening up.

Oh HELL YES it was. Now, I dont know what temperature, but it was boiling rapidly for 5 minutes. I then saw it open, I took it out, and a few seconds, and it closes.

I turned off burner, and stuck it back (water still boiling) and it really didn't open.

Of course, it could be sticky, or it is taking 300' degrees before it opens.

Anyway, I don't like the looks of this at all. I am thinking my new thermo won't solve a F$%#g thing:(

#22 Bucky92

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 06:35 PM

You know these motors are incredibly easy to replace....and cheap too to buy...I have one in my basement I bought as a spare for $50..new timing belts and fresh reseal. Also...the radiators clog easily ....Have you checked to see if yours might be partially clogged?? I didnt read all your posts just stabbing here..But honestly..new head gaskets or heads arent to hard to do or come across. I did an engine pull,clutch,timing belts,engine reseal and various other things in a day..now included some good friends (moosens,jessie,matt and myself) but in that time there was food and drinks and general goofing off..but it was very very easy.....and worth every dime I put into it.

As for the block sealer....I used it once a few years ago on a junk ford van (named Trusty Rusty the Miracle Van) and it worked for about a month...but it was a cracked block...tried it again on my old plymouth when it cracked a head and it didnt work at all..waste of time and money.
Honestly..you have a rust free car....drop another motor in it and then rebuild your old one at your convienience...Just a thought.

Good Luck

#23 fj401968

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 06:45 PM

OHHHHHHH,
Jesus H. CHRIST !!!!!!!!
<snip>

Anyway, I don't like the looks of this at all. I am thinking my new thermo won't solve a F$%#g thing:(


The overheating in waves is indicative of a leaky head. That is what my '90 Legacy did with a blown HG.

Like Bucky said, just cool your jets, regroup and deal with this thing.


Tracy

#24 Subarian

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 06:48 PM

What's the condition of the rest of the car? If it's worth keeping, I'd find a motor for it. You could go the JDM route for 600 or 700 bucks (I saw one on ebay for 399) but you can probably find a good one locally for a lot less. They're not hard to replace.

#25 robertwheeler

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Posted 07 February 2006 - 10:46 PM

After reading this Ive had a thought.

If the leak in the water jacket or in the cylinder wall is forcing exhaust into the coolant maybe you can just figure out what cyclinder is effected.

Consider this the last resort... Take out the plug for the cyclinder that seems to be pushing exhaust into the cooling system.... be prepared for noise... and if this works... also be prepared to change the oil afterwards.

Consider that if the plug is removed and the engine is running... a scarey and very noisy thought.... they might even be a chance that the block sealer might even work.... simply because you are blowing most of the compression out the hole where the plug should be. I would expect this to allow a bit of coolant and sealer into the crack or blown gasket better then fighting against compression. Your asking to get coolant in your oil and if it works that something you gotta fix right away..

Dont even consider doing this unless your ready to junk the car.... this is not something to try on a car that you plan to keep for years... and of course you do need to know what plug to remove.

This is Dangerous and Noisy... but it might work. But only as a last , and I mean Final resort.

Robert




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